code logs -> 2013 -> Mon, 09 Sep 2013< code.20130908.log - code.20130910.log >
--- Log opened Mon Sep 09 00:00:34 2013
00:22 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
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02:19
< simon_>
does anyone know the LaTeX code for those [[ ]]-like braces used in formal semantics?
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04:20
<@Reiv>
augh, friggen dice
04:20
<@Reiv>
level-3+1d6 is too good, level-4+1d6 is too harsh
04:20
<@Reiv>
Why must the law of averages make it not a round number
04:23
<@Alek>
level-3+1d4?
04:23
<~Vornicus>
Same average as level -4 + 1d6, if I understand the notation correctly
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04:39 Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody
04:43
<@Azash>
What's the difference between omega and big O?
04:46
<~Vornicus>
Big Omega appears to be a really loose bound -- for instance: "sensible sorting algorithms have time complexity Omega(n^2); the ones we use most often are O(n log n)"
04:47
<~Vornicus>
Or... jeez, there's like two different definitions, this is no fun
04:48
<~Vornicus>
and of course they're opposites of each other.
04:53
<@Reiv>
I was taught big-0 is 'upper bound' little-o is 'expected runtime' or something
04:53
<@Reiv>
It's been a while.
05:08 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
05:34 * Alek feels his ears burning.
06:01
<@Reiv>
McMartin: https://gitorious.org/nethack-tas-tools/mainline/source/daaa4504d2b09e9832b8d4fd 226e6506c206665a:turnbyturn.txt - I do not know how these things work very well; is !!!! Turn 823 the actual current last line of the file to date?
06:06
<&McMartin>
I have not been paying much attention to that tas, so I can't say
06:07
<@Reiv>
Er, to rephrase
06:07
<@Reiv>
"The last line on that page is '!!!! Turn 823'
06:08
<@Reiv>
Is what I am looking at the current version of said file, or is the whole git versioning thingy defeating me?"
06:08
<@Reiv>
"Corollary: Would a blob cut out after a certain size or would it be reasonable to assume that if it had more, it would show up?"
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07:22
< [R]>
!!!!Turn 823 <-- last line
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08:25
<&McMartin>
A blob in git that represents a file represents the whole file
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08:51 You're now known as TheWatcher
09:23
< Reiver>
Oh well.
09:23
< Reiver>
I shall patiently await an update eventually.
09:23
< Reiver>
It was a fun read.
09:42 AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving]
10:02 * AnnoDomini is highly entertained by the Nethack story.
10:19 himi-cat [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code
10:32
< [R]>
That thing is basically a giant cluster fuck of a Xanatos Gambit so far.
10:34
<~Vornicus>
it's a TAS
10:37
<@Azash>
Typical adventure story?
10:38
<~Vornicus>
Tool Assisted Speedrun
10:38
<~Vornicus>
Xanatos Gambit is understating it.
10:39
< AnnoDomini>
I MUST KILL DEMON AND UNWIELDING OIL LAMP TOO SLOW
10:40
< [R]>
Azash: if you read it narratively, the guy runs into a shop (in a universe where shop keepers are actually top tier murderizers), steals 3 very valuable things, uses a cursed scroll, then eventually starts getting a vampire to level drain him/her.
10:41
<@Azash>
What's the point of the scroll and level drain?
10:41
< [R]>
Scroll was teleport, cursed teleport goes vertical (IE skips levels)
10:42
< [R]>
Level drain is just pure glitch abuse.
10:42
< [R]>
Currently they're character-level 1 with top-teir end-game level HP
10:43
<@Azash>
Ah
10:43
<&McMartin>
Being CL1 means that enemy spawns will be weaker.
10:44
< [R]>
Which is weird considering they rigged it so that all the undead would be uberstrong.
10:44
< AnnoDomini>
Wait, what? I wasn't aware that wands of force bolt fly through the air like a missile when used. I had always assumed they merely make a force bolt.
10:44
< [R]>
... they're going to polymorph into an undead aren't they
10:48
<~Vornicus>
a TAS is a xanatos gambit run by God.
10:49
< [R]>
I guess the point of them is to be completely insane in the means one uses to win the game?
10:50
<~Vornicus>
Well, not really - the polymorph control is there so he can polymorph into a very very fast creature.
10:50
<~Vornicus>
...that creature happens to be blind, but that's why the character is neutral - he can use Eyes of the Overworld, which let him see despite that.
10:50
< [R]>
Yeah, he said that initially
10:51
< [R]>
Just wondering why the hell he'd make undead do the most possible damage
10:51
<@Azash>
Does it penalize anyone else? Trick undead into hitting each other?
10:51
<~Vornicus>
One of the usual conducts on TASs is "plays on the hardest level"
10:52
<~Vornicus>
So in this case, in order to play on the hardest level, he sets the clock to 13 minutes after midnight, on a friday the 13th, on a new moon.
11:10
< Reiver>
Azash: It's hilarious, but they can afford to be: They're cheating horrendously.
11:11
< Reiver>
And as Vorn notes, they rigged it to be 'as hard as possible'.
11:11
< Reiver>
(A bit of a fuzzy concept in Nethack, but one can but try.)
11:12
< Reiver>
The point of a Tool Assisted Speedrun is to beat the game absolutely as fast as possible; they're already ridiculously ahead of where they should be.
11:17
<&McMartin>
That said, there are hard limits on speed of ascention, and in Nethack speedruns by turn count many, many runs have gotten close to the theoretical maximum.
11:17
<&McMartin>
(The vast majority of this limit comes from how fast your alignment can rise, which puts a minimum turn count on which you can start the quest for one of the endgame-triggering items.)
11:21
< Reiver>
And you can't raise the alignment pre-2000?
11:31 thalass [thalass@Nightstar-ecf59cc1.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code
11:34 io\blitzed is now known as iospace
11:54
<~Vornicus>
aaaaaa I have a sidebar that looks like a sidebar what the hell
12:02
<~Vornicus>
http://imgur.com/9Hnxi5s behold
12:04
< Reiver>
nice!
12:04
<@TheWatcher>
Eyup, that's a sidebar alright
12:06
<~Vornicus>
Needs actual artings, but, well...
12:07
< Reiver>
Go the clazzy route
12:07
<~Vornicus>
with zzs?
12:07
< Reiver>
Blow up the pixelart planets you already have, and throw on a couple generic atmosphere pixelings.
12:07
<~Vornicus>
heh
12:07
< Reiver>
So they match, even if they're not gorgeous. :p
12:08
<~Vornicus>
Actually I was figuring I'd be remaking the art in Really Big Size and then shrinking it down (with some hand-editing) to make the world map ones
12:09
<~Vornicus>
But yeah. The ship and planet and background of the sidebar all change with the planet.
12:10 VirusJTG [VirusJTG@2B12AA.572255.206A2A.901581] has joined #code
12:11 thalass is now known as Thalass|afk
12:11
<~Vornicus>
also not shown here: the background colors for blue and purple look absolutely terrible with the blue planet.
12:14
< Reiver>
Not too shocking there.
12:14
< Reiver>
Go with black, it's the classy way to go
12:14
<~Vornicus>
reason I added another color was because there was no boundary at all between the map and the sidebar and it looked really awkward.
12:15
< Reiver>
Could you implement a barrier?
12:15
<~Vornicus>
Could, probably, but that's also awkward. I suspect it will be less awkward when I have full-detail planets and ships, and the controls in.
12:16
<~Vornicus>
Because one of the things that makes it awkward is the planet art hits the invisible barrier and it's like the pixels just kind of end abruptly.
12:20 Thalass|afk is now known as Thalass
12:22
< Reiver>
Right
12:22
< Reiver>
Which is why you implement a one fatpixel stripe down that edge.
12:23
<~Vornicus>
With full-scale art, it's very clear it's not the planet that's ending: it's the sidebar.
12:23 * TheWatcher eyes his return key very, very warily
12:23
<~Vornicus>
Because the full scale art looks like a sphere when it's scaled up.
12:23
<~Vornicus>
Or rather, the full scale art looks like a circle at the sidebar scale; the pixel art... Doesn't.
12:24
<@TheWatcher>
I change terminals, and press that button, and the Band New Shiny Enrolment System fires
12:25
<@TheWatcher>
aaaaa
12:25
<~Vornicus>
aaaaaaaa
12:27 * TheWatcher backs up databases all over, just in case
12:27
< Reiver>
aaaaa
12:39 * AnnoDomini returns from installing/troubleshooting a HP scanner/printer.
12:39
< AnnoDomini>
It prints photos, but not text documents.
12:39
< AnnoDomini>
It copies stuff in reprint mode, and scans to PC, but doesn't copy in copy mode.
12:40
< AnnoDomini>
Except pictures - not text documents.
12:40
< AnnoDomini>
Printing pictures using the utility that came with it makes it print on A5 by default, while set to A4.
12:40
< AnnoDomini>
Printing with regular Windows stuff prints them correctly.
12:41
< AnnoDomini>
Calibration fails for unclear reasons.
12:41
< AnnoDomini>
Damn second-hand things.
12:42 * TheWatcher eys
12:42
<@TheWatcher>
*eyes
12:42
<@TheWatcher>
well, my enrolment scripts work
12:42
<@TheWatcher>
shame this guy hasn't updated his data yet
12:43
<@TheWatcher>
but hey, no 'splosions yet
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14:09
< AnnoDomini>
Hmm. How does one become a Google Corporate Citizen? :V
14:31
<@froztbyte>
wat
14:36
< AnnoDomini>
It seems half of all the useful softwares out there are Google brand, synch with Google and do Google things. This makes me think of Shadowrun and corporate citizens using their corp's products as a matter of course.
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14:51
<@froztbyte>
AnnoDomini: haha
14:59
< ErikMesoy>
So, file ordering has smartened up to the point where "aa" is sorted before "b", but "11" is sorted after "2". However, we still have the edge case of "0.4" being sorted before "0.32". Is there ever likely to be a fix to this short of a general artificial intelligence capable of language processing?
14:59
< ErikMesoy>
Because once we have that, the computer will probably sort your files some other way for you anyway.
15:12
<@froztbyte>
I presume this is a follow-up to an earlier conversation I probably missed?
15:13
< ErikMesoy>
No, it's just me ruminating on how many such edge cases there are to chase down.
15:32
< RichyB>
ErikMesoy, isn't the fix for that to have your lexer race through [0-9.]+ instead of [0-9]+, maybe backtrack to [0-9]+ if the final character is also a ".", then map(int, dotted_numbers.split(".")) so that you parse tuples of numbers?
15:45 * TheWatcher would dearly love to track down whoever it was that decided that HTML in emails was a good idea, and then visit terrible things upon their person.
15:45
<@TheWatcher>
Especially now that I'm being asked to /generate/ them.
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16:01
<@gnolam>
ErikMesoy: no. Because sometimes you want ordering one way and sometimes you want it another.
16:06
< RichyB>
TheWatcher, um, trust me, you have it easy.
16:07
< RichyB>
Generating working HTML email is a little tricky to track down the most-correct way to do because of the general messiness but, seriously, be extremely glad that nobody is requiring you to parse it.
16:07
<@TheWatcher>
Yeah
16:08
<@TheWatcher>
I'd tell them to forcefully insert it where the local stellar body illuminateth not.
16:38
<@iospace>
broadcast IM: "Free donuts in the breakroom!" /everyone/ gets up :V
16:44
< Xon>
RichyB, generating HTML+CSS for emails is /horrifyingly/ painful
16:46
< Xon>
TheWatcher, I used to maintain an email to fax/sms script. that was interesting since it support html/txt/richtext emails being sent to destinations while decoding data out of the email body
16:48
< Xon>
sure, it was a messy pile of perl crap which used some CPAN bits with the cracks papered over (helllo bad mime body parsing) and after 3 years of casual development it works reasonably well =p
16:48
< Xon>
then a coworker rewrote it in python in a few months and junked the old shit
16:50
<@TheWatcher>
And it still won't work any better
16:50
<@TheWatcher>
It might /seem/ to, but it doesn't
16:50
<@TheWatcher>
nothing that parses email ever works better
16:50
<@TheWatcher>
Because email hates the living.
17:00
< ErikMesoy>
How important are the legacy-email-address-using people? i.e. is there any chance of overriding them and writing a new, sane standard for email that doesn't do silly things like allow nested comments in the email address?
17:13
<@Tamber>
Is there any chance? Sure.
17:13
<@Tamber>
...shortly after the four horsemen ride
17:14
<@Tamber>
Well, actually, that's not quite correct.
17:14
<@Tamber>
That should be the answer to "is there any chance of getting anyone to use the new, sane standard [‚¶]"
17:15
<@Tamber>
Just beware of reinventing the wheel badly. There are, no doubt, countless "Email, without the bad bits!" implementations (...that implement *new*, badly documented, bad bits!) fertilising the plants along that path.
17:43
< AnnoDomini>
The Eyes are vital to save turns later on in the game;
17:44
< AnnoDomini>
"The Eyes are vital to save turns later on in the game; although they have several different abilities, the one that we care about is the ability to cure all forms of blindness, important because later on we'll be using polymorph forms which have no eyes. (Being an artifact, it's powerful enough to overcome even such an apparently final obstacle to sight as eyelessness.)"
17:44
< AnnoDomini>
Silly line-broken storytime.
17:45
< RichyB>
Xon, sure, but generating versus parsing is, like⦠murder versus genocide.
17:46
< ErikMesoy>
AnnoDomini: What's this from?
17:46
< RichyB>
Sure your limbs are being viciously hacked off and fed to dogs, but at least it's not also happening to everyone you have ever known or cared about too.
17:47
< AnnoDomini>
ErikMesoy: https://gitorious.org/nethack-tas-tools/mainline/source/daaa4504d2b09e9832b8d4fd 226e6506c206665a:turnbyturn.txt
17:48
< AnnoDomini>
And now ErikMesoy will proceed to read this in five minutes, because he can read orders of magnitude faster than I can. <_<
17:57
< ErikMesoy>
"I run into walls and use up die rolls until the monster rolls a natural 1." Fun.
18:08
< ErikMesoy>
Wish for regular item, abuse luck manipulation to get blessed item. Wish for blessed item, have such bad luck as to get a cursed one instead, use cursed one to travel. Kill shopkeeper, polymorph into into dragon to pick up LUDICROUSLY HEAVY shopkeeper corpse. Fun stuff abounds.
18:14
< AnnoDomini>
The shopkeeper has been eating all the pies.
18:23
< ErikMesoy>
Overflow the gold counter, pick up negative gold with negative weight, get free carrying capacity. :D
18:24 Honour [Moltareish@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has joined #code
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18:32
< ErikMesoy>
Bah, this is unfinished.
18:36 Moltare [Moltareish@583787.FF2A18.190FE2.4D81A1] has quit [[NS] Quit: ]
19:10
<&ToxicFrog>
Yeah, and it hasn't been updated in ages.
19:45
< [R]>
Is there a kind of beginner's roguelike?
19:46
< AnnoDomini>
Diablo.
19:46
< [R]>
One where either: A) the keymaps are labelled B) there isn't more keymaps than physical keys
19:46
< ErikMesoy>
Diablo has mouse movement. :V
19:46
< [R]>
:/
19:46
< ErikMesoy>
Dungeons of Dredmor is slightly more roguelike.
19:48
<&ToxicFrog>
ErikMesoy: and is realtime.
19:48
< ErikMesoy>
ToxicFrog: No, only the rendering is realtime. :p
19:48
<&ToxicFrog>
No, I mean Diablo.
19:48
< ErikMesoy>
Ah.
19:49 * ErikMesoy still has a vast reservoir of built-up hate for Dungeons of Dredmor the way the idle animations would eat 20 degrees of heat and overheat his old laptop WHILE THE GAME WAS MINIMIZED.
19:49
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: I would recommend DoomRL, Dungeons of Dredmor, or Tales of Maj'Eyal
19:49
<&ToxicFrog>
In ascending order of complexity
19:49
<&ToxicFrog>
...more or less.
19:49
< AnnoDomini>
Or you could play Nethack, like a boss, until you learn. :E
19:49
< ErikMesoy>
Vsync, mother russia, do you speak it?
19:50
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: if you're just looking to get into the whole turnbased randomly-generated lo-fi mindset, DoomRL is loads of fun and quite accessible.
19:50
<&ToxicFrog>
And is one of the few playable non-fantasy roguelikes.
19:50
< ErikMesoy>
[R]: What kind of labelling do you want on your keymaps?
19:51
< [R]>
Something I can actually see on the screen or have in-game access too.
19:51
<&ToxicFrog>
DoD and ToME are both pretty transparent and have accessible UIs. Both are graphical, though.
19:51
< [R]>
Though a short 1-page document I can have beside the game works
19:51
<&ToxicFrog>
Er
19:51
<&ToxicFrog>
That's every roguelike ever, though
19:51
<&ToxicFrog>
So it doesn't really narrow it down
19:51 * ErikMesoy recalls that Angband and derivatives like ToME can be played quite succesfully with about ten keys (quaff, read, wield, .run, etc) in addition to movement
19:52
< [R]>
quaff is drink right?
19:52
< ErikMesoy>
Yes.
19:52
< AnnoDomini>
Learning the keyology is the least difficult part of playing Roguelikes.
19:52
< ErikMesoy>
d is for drop item
19:52
<&ToxicFrog>
ErikMesoy: ToME is pretty damn far from an angband derivative at this point.
19:53
< ErikMesoy>
ToxicFrog: Well, I played it when it was PernAngband and when it was Tales of Middle Earth, so maybe I just feel more continuity.
19:53
<&ToxicFrog>
It hasn'
19:53
< [R]>
k, I did manage to play nethack for a bit... just not being able to instantly memorize all the keys was quite annoying (on top of playing a game that has unlabeled cursed items)
19:53
<&ToxicFrog>
t been Tales of Middle Earth for some years now, and feels extremely different from what Angband I've played.
19:53
<&ToxicFrog>
I started on Nethack but would not, honestly, recommend it for someone new to roguelikes.
19:54
<&ToxicFrog>
It has a lot of stuff that I like but it's also much more complicated than it needs to be.
19:54
<&ToxicFrog>
ErikMesoy: in particular, the finite supply of levels and "no consumables ever" ethos are both a pretty shocking contrast to Angband (and the latter, to most roguelikes)
19:56
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: nethack does have in-game help, but I would recommend any of the three I named over it these days.
19:57
< [R]>
Yeah, I just checked my repos, I have rogue and wrogue. So it looks like I'll have to find a compile the others myself
19:58
< [R]>
"snapshots are taken using hardlinks" WTF
19:58
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: Dredmor is a commercial game, and is on Steam.
19:58
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: DoomRL and ToME both have binary downloads on their websites.
19:59
<&ToxicFrog>
DoomRL additionally offers a choice between tile or ascii versions.
20:00
< [R]>
Thanks, trying that
20:00 * ErikMesoy also waves a flag in vague support of Angband, which has binaries and sources for lots of stuff.
20:00
<@iospace>
dear co-workers. DO NOT TAKE BOARDS OUT OF THE BOARDFARM UNLESS YOU ASK
20:00
<@iospace>
askflhsef rawr
20:01
<&ToxicFrog>
I keep meaning to try out Angband again, but I have a hard time getting over the lack of persistence.
20:01
<&ToxicFrog>
Derakon was playing a version with lots of monster races earlier, that might be fun.
20:01 * Tamber plants more planks for iospace?
20:01
<&ToxicFrog>
(thinking about it, I do enjoy DoomRL where you can never return to previously cleared levels either, so maybe it is time I angbanded again)
20:02
< ErikMesoy>
[R]: http://i.imgur.com/u9UWX.png Is this of interest? (Angband scheme) Or is it too hard to find anything in that list due to lack of Ctrl-F?
20:02
<&ToxicFrog>
(that said, I still haven't finished ToME...)
20:02
<&ToxicFrog>
(also, death to the old-school UI that has different "use" verbs for every noun)
20:02
< [R]>
That's kind of hard to read :/
20:03
< ErikMesoy>
Hahaha. Yeah, (r)ead scroll, (q)uaff potion, (w)ear equipment, (u)se staff, (z)ap rod, (E)at food... those could use merging
20:04
<&ToxicFrog>
(W)ield weapon.
20:04
<&ToxicFrog>
(P)ut on rings/amulets, at least in nethack.
20:04
< ErikMesoy>
Weapons are equipment and (w)ielded, too. (W) is actually unused in Angband.
20:05
<&ToxicFrog>
I mean, some nouns have legitimate multiple verbs associated with them - in nethack, for example, you can drink potions or dip things in them - but the vast majority of those verbs can be rolled into "use".
20:06
<&ToxicFrog>
Crossfire did that back in the 90s, as did Diablo; more recently, all three I recommended have either context-sensitive or generic "use" commands.
20:06
<@iospace>
Tamber: the boardfarm is where we keep at least one of a given board for quick access
20:08
< ErikMesoy>
[R]: Here is Angband's command list in searchable text form, and I've inserted my opinion into the middle. This is ingame too (accessible with ? command) and the core keymaps are limited to alphabet keys and <> for stairs, everything else is unnecessary.
20:08
< ErikMesoy>
http://pastebin.com/7fJBzXsJ
20:11 * ErikMesoy also opines death to the UI, old-school or not, that jams a state-toggled function into one key and loses the associated initial. Where (g)et could normally be to get items in the tile you're in, its formal function is "Stay still (flip pickup)" which means that 'g' with autopickup on corresponds to '5' with autopickup off and vice versa.
20:13
< [R]>
Playing DoomRL... I'm stuck in look mode
20:13
<&ToxicFrog>
I can't parse half of that.
20:14
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: escape.
20:14
<&ToxicFrog>
http://doom.chaosforge.org/wiki/Manual:Keybindings
20:14
< [R]>
Ugh... either my keyboard is shitting out or it's not registering keypresses right
20:15
< ErikMesoy>
ToxicFrog: By default, Angband has autopickup off (moving into a tile with an item prints "There is an item here" to messages), '5' stands still, and 'g' offers to pick up the item you're standing on (if any). So 'g' could be intuitively linked to "getting" an item from the floor.
20:16
< ErikMesoy>
However, with autopickup on, '5' while standing on an item offers to pick it up, and 'g' while standing on an item just prints "there is an item here". Clearer?
20:21
<&ToxicFrog>
...why the fuck
20:22
<&ToxicFrog>
[R]: double-press it? I've had issues in the past with doomRL requiring escape keys to be double pressed but I thought it was a terminal issue.
20:22 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
20:23
< [R]>
Yeah... seems to want double push
20:23
< [R]>
Liking it so far though :)
20:30
< [R]>
Died... and DiabloRL crashes
20:33
< [R]>
Thanks for that angband doc though Erik
20:39
< AnnoDomini>
You could try Slaves to Armok: God of Blood Chapter II: Dwarf Fortress: Histories of Greed and Industry: Adventurer Mode.
20:39
< [R]>
Woo! Got DiabloRL working
20:40
< [R]>
Thinking Rogue is best class. So sneaky I can't even see her.
20:42
< [R]>
Oh... because it's only rendering the top half of the screen
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20:52
< AnnoDomini>
"After we've gone to all that trouble to produce negative gold, we pick it up, in order to enjoy its strange properties."
20:53
<@Alek>
...
20:53
<@Alek>
DiabloRL?
20:53
< AnnoDomini>
Nethack.
20:54
<&McMartin>
If you're just starting out in Nethack, Seriously Do Not Pick Rogue.
20:57
< AnnoDomini>
I suggest Barbarian. That was my first ascension.
20:58
<&McMartin>
Barb or Valk are good starter classes. Barb is nice because it starts with poison resistance and you can take notes as to which corpses you feast on are poisonous
20:58
<&McMartin>
And thus hold off on eating those as other classes until you get poison resist.
20:59
< [R]>
Alek: I'm guessing AD's quote is from that NH TAS. Me being a rogue is from playing a glitchy DiabloRL (which renders only the part of the screen /above/ the character)
21:00
<&McMartin>
Ah, OK
21:01
< AnnoDomini>
McMartin: https://gitorious.org/nethack-tas-tools/mainline/source/daaa4504d2b09e9832b8d4fd 226e6506c206665a:turnbyturn.txt :D
21:01 * Alek snickers.
21:01
<@Alek>
http://www.gog.com/game/sword_of_the_stars_the_pit
21:02
<&ToxicFrog>
Alek: DiabloRL is another game by the developer of DoomRL, recasting Diablo as an old-school turn-based tty roguelike
21:03
<&ToxicFrog>
And I think that it will be seriously fun if he ever finishes the damn thing
21:03
<&McMartin>
DoomRL is apparently of extremely high quality?
21:03
<&McMartin>
I've heard many good things about it
21:03
<&McMartin>
Including "there is no reason to every play SotS The Pit because DoomRL exists"
21:03
<&McMartin>
*to ever
21:03
<&ToxicFrog>
DoomRL is excellent.
21:03
< ErikMesoy>
What is SotS?
21:03
<&ToxicFrog>
I highly recommend it.
21:04
<&McMartin>
Sword of the Stars 1 is an impressive but flawed 4X grand strategy game
21:04
<&McMartin>
Think Master of Orion except every species has an entirely different mechanism for FTL and thus for interacting with the map
21:04
<&ToxicFrog>
ErikMesoy: an incredibly boring turn-based 4X with an incredibly broken sequel (SotS II) and a roguelike spinoff (SotS: The Pit)
21:04
<&McMartin>
Which is as neat and as broken as it sounds.
21:04
< ErikMesoy>
Roguelike... spinoff from a space 4x. Yeah, that sounds neat and broken.
21:04
<&McMartin>
SotS 2 is a complete and utter collapse of everything and also exposed the lead designers as thermonuclear douchebags.
21:05
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: if you haven't played DoomRL, you really should. I've beaten it a few times.
21:05
<&McMartin>
Produces nice screenshots from the tactical combat screen though~
21:05
<&ToxicFrog>
It's fairly simple (but more complex than Doom itself) and has a bunch of secret levels and challenge modes, too.
21:05
<&McMartin>
TF: It's on my "copious spare time" list, albeit not high on it
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--- Log closed Tue Sep 10 00:00:50 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Mon, 09 Sep 2013< code.20130908.log - code.20130910.log >

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