| --- Log opened Wed Aug 14 00:00:39 2013 |
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| 09:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 11:44 | | * TheWatcher stabs html/css/browsers/etc in the face |
| 11:54 | | * Vornicus helps. |
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| 12:25 | <@TheWatcher> | (seriously, who the hell decided that whitespace between inline li elements should actually have any effect?) |
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| 13:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Death to XML |
| 13:24 | <@Tamber> | <death><target>XML</target><painfulness>11</painfulness></death> |
| 13:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm, that's not vert flexible, though. Perhaps <death><target painfullness="11">XML</target></death> as that would allow for easy per-target painfulness control. |
| 13:30 | <@TheWatcher> | *very |
| 13:31 | <@TheWatcher> | (I must be one of the 7 people on the planet that acutally likes xml >.>) |
| 13:32 | <@Namegduf> | If the painfulness levels differ, they aren't really the same death, are they? |
| 13:33 | <@Namegduf> | Although introducing extra flexibility so you can both specify multiple instances or have one instance which is entirely different for each affected thing is very in the spirit of XML. |
| 13:34 | <@Namegduf> | Flexible as we can because we must, even where it's totally redundant. |
| 13:36 | < Syka_> | XML does what it must, because it can |
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| 13:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: XML is fine for what it was originally intended for, document markup |
| 13:49 | <&ToxicFrog> | But I want to find everyone who uses it as a data description/interchange format and break their fingers. |
| 13:50 | | ktemkin[awol] is now known as ktemkin |
| 13:51 | <@TheWatcher> | As opposed to? |
| 13:51 | < ktemkin> | Shouldn't be too hard. I've they're using XML as a DDL, their fingers are probably brittle from all those angle brackets. |
| 13:51 | <@Tamber> | :D |
| 13:52 | < ktemkin> | *If they're |
| 13:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | TheWatcher: JSON. EDL. Something else that doesn't encourage the use of nested-to-the-nth-power tag heirarchies to store the smallest bit of data or require libraries bigger than the rest of your app combined (and network access!) to parse. |
| 13:54 | <&ToxicFrog> | I have a particular hate-on right now for people who use XML and are deathly afraid of attributes. |
| 13:55 | <@Tamber> | But attributes are bad! I read it on Reddit, once... |
| 13:55 | | * Tamber ducks, runs. |
| 13:55 | < ktemkin> | I particularly loathe people who store redundant data in their XML attributes. |
| 13:55 | | * TheWatcher drops a meteor on Tamber |
| 13:55 | | * Tamber kersplode |
| 13:56 | < ktemkin> | Up until recently, for example, Moodle's awkward XML-DB standard actually required you to include "next" and "prev" attributes, which specified the names of the next and previous columns. |
| 13:56 | <@Tamber> | See, the problem there is quite clear. |
| 13:56 | <@Tamber> | "Moodle" |
| 13:57 | <@Tamber> | (Oh, and "XML" too, I suppose.) |
| 13:57 | < ktemkin> | While you're at it, you might as well throw PHP in there as well, so we can complete the trifecta. |
| 13:57 | <@Tamber> | Well, I didn't think I needed to specify that; it's just implied. |
| 13:59 | < ktemkin> | They'd actually require you to have something like <column name="a" next="b" /><column name="b" prev="a" next="c" /><column name="c" prev="b" />. |
| 13:59 | < ktemkin> | Their listed reason was that it "discourages people from editing the XML files by hand". |
| 14:02 | <&ToxicFrog> | The fact that it's FUCKING XML should do that already. |
| 14:04 | < ktemkin> | Yeah, but if you're editing something like a version number real quick on a remote server, it's still probably easier to just use vim. |
| 14:05 | | ktemkin is now known as ktemkin[awork] |
| 14:06 | <@Namegduf> | That seems like the shittiest way to go abount accomplishing that goal possible. |
| 14:06 | <@Namegduf> | Discouraging people from editing it by hand, I mean. |
| 14:06 | <@Namegduf> | It sounds like an excuse someone came up with to justify not changing it. |
| 14:08 | < ktemkin[awork]> | It wasn't even a technical requirement-- they actually had explicit code that checked for PREVIOUS/NEXT. =\ |
| 14:08 | <@Tamber> | *facepalm* |
| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | Honestly, knowing some of the moodle devs, it's an excuse for being incompetent dicks. |
| 14:10 | < ktemkin[awork]> | They only wanted people to avoid hand-editing becuase they wanted to ensure that valid XML was produced-- and, y'know, it's not like we have any existing tools that check the validity of XML documents. |
| 14:10 | | * ToxicFrog replaces 20 lines of revolting XML-handling Lua with 20 lines of slightly less revolting XML-handling Clojure |
| 14:12 | < ktemkin[awork]> | If there was something better, I'd be working with that, instead. |
| 14:13 | < ktemkin[awork]> | But, unfortunately, Blackboard seems workse, and Canvas is so young that it's basically a toy (not to mention that the last thing I want to do is spend years building on top of a somewhat poorly implemented rails-based platform). |
| 14:13 | < ktemkin[awork]> | *... worse. |
| 14:16 | <@TheWatcher> | You could sell your soul to coursera~ |
| 14:17 | <@TheWatcher> | (also, there's no "seems" there - blackboard is a pile of festering shit held together by mouldy pieces of binder twine and gaffer tape) |
| 14:17 | < ktemkin[awork]> | I haven't seen the backend for Bb; I've only used the frontend enough to know that I don't want to. |
| 14:18 | <@TheWatcher> | YEah, I've had to deal with it a few times. Fucking thing is more godawful than Bodington was |
| 14:18 | <@TheWatcher> | (and that's going some) |
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| 16:04 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's kind of scary getting an email saying "your changes to the monitoring system are now active in production" |
| 16:08 | <@Tamber> | You added more elastic to the monitor-a-pult? |
| 16:13 | <@Tarinaky> | Could a strong AI be used to turing-test other AI? |
| 16:14 | < Syka_> | ...what like |
| 16:14 | < Syka_> | where theyre both AI |
| 16:15 | < Syka_> | "Guess which one is an AI!" "um" "That's right, both of them! :D" |
| 16:15 | <@Tarinaky> | No. One of the AIs has to determine whether the other AI is indestinguishable from a human. |
| 16:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | Syka_: I think more "we have a 'known good' AI, and we have it run the turing test on a new AI and a human" |
| 16:16 | < Syka_> | ...huh |
| 16:16 | <@Tarinaky> | Basically if you replace every human with a known good AI. |
| 16:30 | <@Tarinaky> | Ignoring the obvious question as to whether the strong ai exists in the first place :p |
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| 17:06 | <@TheWatcher> | GoddamnedfuckingbrowsercachesARGH |
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| 19:26 | < RichyB> | ToxicFrog, what're you working on that freely mixes Clojure and Lua in the same process? |
| 19:27 | < RichyB> | I'm curious about your replacing XML-handling Lua with XML-handling Clojure. |
| 19:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | RichyB: I'm not. I'm rewriting an old (terrible) Lua project in Clojure. |
| 19:29 | < RichyB> | Ah. |
| 19:30 | < RichyB> | I was thinking either "somehow, heinously using one or the other language's C FFIs" (ewww) or more likely "whole processes being launched by a makefile or shell script" |
| 19:38 | | * Azash just spent 30 seconds trying to figure out what whore processes are |
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| 20:45 | <&McMartin> | SDL2 is finally officially out |
| 20:49 | <&jerith> | McMartin: I desire a tool or mechanism to organise IFs. |
| 20:50 | <&McMartin> | It's not very good but unless you're on a Mac, my blorple.sf.net is your only option. |
| 20:50 | <&jerith> | I am currently using Zoom on OSX as a player, and it has very rudimentary tools. |
| 20:50 | <&jerith> | I looked at blorple but Mountain Lion objects to it. |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | "very rudimentary" pretty much covers it; Blorple is arguably weaker than Zoom anyhow. |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | What does Mountain Lion hate |
| 20:51 | <&McMartin> | Besides all life |
| 20:52 | <&jerith> | āBlorpleā is damaged and canāt be opened. You should eject the disk image. |
| 20:52 | <&McMartin> | o_O |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | Does this happen even when building from source? |
| 20:53 | <&jerith> | It complained that I was Java-disadvantaged and then I installed a Java of some kind. |
| 20:53 | <&jerith> | I haven't tried from source. |
| 20:53 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, it's written in Java so that's going to be important |
| 20:54 | <&jerith> | SourceForge is making it really hard to find the source. |
| 20:54 | <&jerith> | Harder than Launchpad, which is quite an achievement. |
| 20:54 | <&jerith> | Ah, found it. |
| 20:54 | <&McMartin> | http://sourceforge.net/p/blorple/code/102/tree/ |
| 20:54 | | * jerith pulls from svn. |
| 20:55 | <&jerith> | Seems fine if I build it and then run the jar. |
| 20:57 | <&jerith> | Does blorple do any kind of tagging? |
| 20:57 | <&jerith> | Zoom has "groups", but those appear to be the directory the game file lives in. |
| 20:58 | <&jerith> | All I really want is a way to tag things. |
| 21:03 | <&McMartin> | I think that's still sitting on the TODO list |
| 21:03 | <&McMartin> | The whole IFID thing was a thing the community designed and then largely promptly ignored |
| 21:05 | | * McMartin blinks |
| 21:05 | <&McMartin> | Apparently SDL2 has limited steamworks integration even when you're non-Steam. |
| 21:12 | <@TheWatcher> | They finally released, eh? |
| 21:13 | <&McMartin> | Yup |
| 21:13 | <@TheWatcher> | I suppose I should grab it and see about porting SDL_imagesave soon |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | Since that's pixelmanip you'll probably keep the API at the SDL_Surface level |
| 21:14 | | * TheWatcher nod |
| 21:15 | <&McMartin> | Also, the SDL_main redefinition jackassery is gone, which means I'm absolutely porting Monocle over~ |
| 21:17 | <@gnolam> | <McMartin> Apparently SDL2 has limited steamworks integration even when you're non-Steam. |
| 21:17 | <@gnolam> | wut |
| 21:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Hm, looks like they modified SDL_Surface slightly, but not bu any amount that is likely to throw me (pitch is an int rather than a uint16, few extra fields.... hm) |
| 21:21 | <@TheWatcher> | But right now, no coding, otherwise my brain is going to snap |
| 21:24 | | * TheWatcher commits and pushes before giving up for today |
| 21:39 | <@gnolam> | That the "What can SDL do?" section on the intro page was labeled 1.2 threw me for a while.~ |
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| 22:01 | <&McMartin> | gnolam: Something about gamepad mapping appears to be automatically handled by the Steam Overlay, which they cite several times |
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| 23:13 | | * McMartin has 20 hours to decide whether he wants to drop a buck to get source code access to Uplink and Darwinia. |
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| 23:27 | <@Namegduf> | I dropped money for the soundtracks, since I don't already have them and they might be worth it. |
| 23:30 | <@Alek> | music bundle? |
| 23:30 | <@Alek> | enjoy. |
| 23:30 | | * Alek picked up the origin bundle for a buck. for Dead Space and Mirror's Edge. |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | Introversion bundle on the other end |
| 23:31 | <&McMartin> | And yeah, Mirror's Edge is fantastic when you spent fifty cents for it. |
| 23:32 | | ktemkin[awork] is now known as ktemkin |
| 23:32 | <@Alek> | Mirror's Edge, Dead Space 1+3, might as well try Medal of Honor, and Burnout might be fun to try some time. |
| 23:32 | <@Alek> | and Crysis 2 I gave to a friend. >_> |
| 23:33 | <@Alek> | because I had it already. XD |
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| --- Log closed Thu Aug 15 00:00:55 2013 |