code logs -> 2013 -> Thu, 01 Aug 2013< code.20130731.log - code.20130802.log >
--- Log opened Thu Aug 01 00:00:01 2013
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01:35 * Alek peers at McM.
01:44
<&McMartin>
?
01:45
< [R]>
Anyone know how to make FreeNAS upload using more than 0.08% of a 100Base-T line?
01:45
<&McMartin>
The product I work on assists IT departments in remote administration
01:45
< [R]>
(This is over ssh)
01:45
<&McMartin>
That's not a long way from "zombifying your botnet", in terms of what it does
01:52
<@Alek>
really, McM? putting C books on the programming shelf?
01:52
<@Alek>
¬_¬
01:58 * Alek sobs. http://notalwaysright.com/does-not-pass-with-flying-colors/31032
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02:04
<@celticminstrel>
...
02:05
<@celticminstrel>
Colourblind?
02:05
< RichyB>
What's wrong with having C books on the programming shelf?
02:06
< RichyB>
Other than a) obviously you are required to always be programming in C lest life itself become meaningless, so why aren't they on your desk in use?
02:06
< RichyB>
and b) why haven't you just memorised them anyway and put them back on the shelf?
02:06
<&McMartin>
Alek: You are deeply confused
02:07
<&McMartin>
It was not me who posted photos of a programming shelf
02:09
<@Alek>
....
02:09 * Alek headdesks.
02:10
<@Alek>
I just woke up an hour and a half ago, this shouldn't be happening.
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09:29
<&McMartin>
Ha ha ha, yay
09:29
<&McMartin>
"we figured out that 'big data' is what little devops make when they have a hadoop in their pants"
09:40
< Syka>
haha
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10:00 You're now known as TheWatcher
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10:23
< ErikMesoy>
Does anyone else find it utterly retarded when games have censor filters that prevent characters from speaking the in-game name of content.
10:25
< ErikMesoy>
I just encountered this in DDO, where the quest 'Inferno of the Damned' turned into Inferno of the @#$%&*! in chat. Now, there are a number of points to be made about when such filters are reasonable and whether I should have one on at all (I find it amusing when youtube commenters turn into cartoon swearing), but...
10:26
< ErikMesoy>
It's not that it hinders me in way, I just wonder what the hell sort of communication failure appeared here between the team that writes content and the team which decides which content is acceptable.
10:28
< ErikMesoy>
*in any way. This strikes me as being up there with ensuring that your book's cover page or store's street sign is spelled correctly. Anything that will be referred to a lot, like a quest name, shoudln't have this sort of glaring inconsistency.
10:30
< ErikMesoy>
It's like if Saruman suddenly got an AK-47. Yes, he's a genius wizard and a walking metaphor for the nasty side of modern industry, but even so. WTF.
11:30 * Alek points Erik at http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7568728/1/Saruman-of-many-Devices
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11:42
< ErikMesoy>
Alek: Seen it, it gets half a pass for being fanfiction and half a pass for not just being a crossover but existing in a crossover cosmology.
11:44
< ErikMesoy>
It would still have been pretty stupid if Tolkien had started asspulling "and now Saruman gets AK-47s from sufficiently advanced aliens whose job is to spread AK-47s to backwards planets".
11:50
<@Alek>
be a little hard to do, anyway, since he wrote LOTR before AK-47s were made. XD
12:08
< ErikMesoy>
Not really. He theoretically started it around 1937, just after Hobbit, and kept writing and rewriting until about 1949 with publication in 1954. You may remember the intro text (if your book has it) about how he was writing during WW2.
12:10
<@Alek>
hm. *hits his brain*
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12:42
< simon_>
hello
12:42 * simon_ is playing around with procedural map generation
12:44
< simon_>
I want to create a function that generates the points within a radius of a center point. should I just take a square of points and filter those out whose euclidean distance is too big?
12:45
<~Vornicus>
could do that.
12:46
<~Vornicus>
It's nondeterministic time however; alternative is to generate angle and sqrt(r) iirc and that will be slower per point but has guaranteed performance.
12:49
<~Vornicus>
I presume you want uniform distribution within the circle.
12:57
< simon_>
umm yes. I'm making circles in ASCII art.
12:57
< simon_>
so the result point set is rather discrete.
12:57
< simon_>
not sure how uniformity plays in.
12:59
<~Vornicus>
If you want it to be smoother, there's a voronoi relaxation technique that works to do that
13:00
< simon_>
ok
13:00
< simon_>
I'll see how it goes :)
13:02
<~Vornicus>
sleep
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13:46
< RichyB>
I wonder how much money and/or time and effort it would take to make a bunch of scheme implementations go away forever.
13:46
< RichyB>
It would be cool if, like, one or the other of Gambit or Chicken got completely merged into the other.
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14:09
<@Pandemic>
what type of scheme implimentations are you talking about RichyB
14:09
<@Pandemic>
like SQL or LDAP, or something else entierly
14:10
<@Tamber>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheme_%28programming_language%29
14:10
< Syka>
scheme: the most evil of the functional languages
14:11
<@Pandemic>
ahh
14:13
< Syka>
gambit also sounds like the most evil of the scheme compilers
14:13
<@Pandemic>
that sounds as much fun to work with as a red hot pitch for through the right leg...
14:13
<@Pandemic>
pitch fork*
14:13
<@Tamber>
Howso?
14:14
< Syka>
nono, that's IE6-supported JS
14:14
< Syka>
scheme at least gives cause for thought as it impales you
14:15
<@Pandemic>
fair point
14:15 * Pandemic will stick with c++ and C# tyvm
14:15
<@Pandemic>
and vb script, because I have few other choices
14:15
<@Pandemic>
>.>
14:15
<@Pandemic>
<.<
14:15
<@Pandemic>
>.<
14:15 * TheWatcher patpats Virus
14:20 * Syka cuddles her pythons. All 2.7 of them.
14:25
<@Pandemic>
some would say power shell, I say powershell is less of a programing language and more of a completed scripting calling preexisting programs and just pass ass long command line arguments....
14:27
<@TheWatcher>
Like a poor, primative cousin of bash ¬¬
14:29
<@Pandemic>
it gets the job done, but it sure as hell ain't pretty
14:29 * Pandemic pokes outlook and exchange with sticks
14:29
<@Tamber>
Careful. You might not get the sticks back.
14:29
<@Pandemic>
thats fine, I keep a ready supply for just such occasions.
14:51
<&ToxicFrog>
Pandemic: scheme is actually rather pleasant to use, although for actual work (as opposed to teaching) I'd recommend Clojure instead.
14:51
<&ToxicFrog>
The big issue (and what RichyB is objecting to) is that there's like a dozen almost-but-not-quite-compatible Scheme implementations.
14:52
< RichyB>
Have you seen the Pylons python web framework?
14:52
< RichyB>
Also Turbogears?
14:52
< RichyB>
Also repoze.bfg?
14:53
<&ToxicFrog>
(and to be fair, bash isn't pretty either~)
14:53
< RichyB>
All 3 of those very-similar python web frameworks merged about a year-ish back and refactored their features into a single one called Pyramid instead. The results have been fantastic.
14:53
<&ToxicFrog>
Syka: high five, python 2.7 buddy :(
14:53
< RichyB>
It'd be nice if more projects with that kind of "we're in exactly the same space and continually treading on each others' userbase" problem would do the same kind of thing.
14:54
< RichyB>
Gambit and Chicken occupy such similar niches that there's no externally-visible way to pick which one you would use for any given project.
14:55
<@Tamber>
Well, obviously the solution is to make a project that merges all those projects together, to create one unified standard Scheme thingy! </derp>
14:55
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: i love my pythonsd
14:55
< RichyB>
Tamber, well, yes.
14:55
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: once twisted has py3 support i will probably migrate, though
14:56
<&ToxicFrog>
Syka: I have philosophical objections to print being a keyword~
14:56
< RichyB>
Tamber, but you do it the same way that the Pyramid people did it: 1. take one of the existing projects that already works, 2. fork and rename it, 3. implement everyone else's features on it.
14:56
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: from __future__ import print_function
14:56
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: problem solved~
14:58
<&ToxicFrog>
Pretty sure that __future__ is discouraged except where absolutely necessary :(
14:58
< Syka>
never heard that before
14:58
< Syka>
if you're targeting like python 2.1, then yeah
14:58
< Syka>
otherwise it's most likely fine
14:59
<&ToxicFrog>
I mean as part of our internal style guide.
14:59
< RichyB>
If you import something from __future__ and it later becomes standard, the __future__ import becomes a no-op, right?
14:59
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: what if you go def print(var): print var
14:59
< Syka>
:D
14:59
<@Tamber>
Richy: Which, I suspect, would then result in X+1 projects doing about the same thing, for the same userbase~ :p
15:00
<&ToxicFrog>
(as for upgrading to python 3 - we have tens of millions of lines of python. Pretty sure that's not happening~)
15:00
<@TheWatcher>
RichyB: I note that merging projects, except in very restricted situations, and unless chunks of one or more projects are thrown out or they really are basically carbon copies, creates an unholy mess where you have half a dozen functions doing the same thing with different semantics.
15:01
< RichyB>
Tamber, TheWatcher: really didn't happen with the Pyramid project.
15:01
<@Tamber>
Well, there's always the exception that proves the rule, right? :p
15:01
< RichyB>
Tamber, they dealt with that by mutually agreeing to stop maintaining the old frameworks and work on the new one instead, so the user bases are slowly jumping ship in order to still have support.
15:02
<@Tamber>
Ah, fairy nuff.
15:04
< RichyB>
TheWatcher, they dealt with that one by not merging anything automatically but instead manually re-implementing all the useful features that were in frameworks Y and Z but missing in Z.
15:08
< RichyB>
It's not "someone created a merged project" but "all of the maintainers from those projects got together and mutually agreed to jump ship". :)
15:13
<@TheWatcher>
My question at this point is how many of the users of the old frameworks are now going "But pyramid doesn't do X the way $old_framework did, we don't want it that way! <ka-fork of $old_framework>"
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15:24
< RichyB>
None who matter, I think.
15:25
< RichyB>
The people who care enough about web frameworks to write or fork one were already abducted by the Pyramid fw. ;)
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20:07 * Derakon downloads pygame to try to interact with this joystick, discovers it is 32-bit only, googles for "pygame 64-bit mac", finds a guide.
20:07
<&Derakon>
Said guide consists, in brief, of "throw away your 64-bit Python and install 32-bit instead. Then you can use pygame!"
20:09
<@Tamber>
*sigh*
20:09
<@Tamber>
Marvellous. After all, you didn't have any reason to be using those extra 64 bits at all, right?
20:09
<&Derakon>
Naturally not.
20:09
<&Derakon>
Nor any other libraries you'd already installed and needed.
20:10
<@Tamber>
Of course not; so there you go, then!
20:10
<@Tamber>
~.~
20:10
<&McMartin>
64 bits is an aberration! That's why Firefox abandoned it
20:10
<&McMartin>
(I think it might have actually *been* pygame that led me to decide "you know what, it's less convenient to use systems programming languages")
20:11
<&McMartin>
(Er, less *inconvenient*)
20:11
<@Pandemic>
...
20:11
<@Pandemic>
ok they get the facepalm of the day...
20:11
<&McMartin>
My favorite thing in this vein was learning that comp.lang.lisp included "I would like to produce a redistributable binary of my program" to be a troll question
20:12
<&McMartin>
in the mid 2000s
20:12
<&Derakon>
Lisp is only for academic CS research, everyone you'd want to share your program with already has Lisp installed~
20:12
<&Derakon>
(Or else it's an emacs plugin)
20:12
<&McMartin>
It's also for setting up ~interactive computation environments~ that actually are what people pretend to claim Emacs is.
20:14
<&McMartin>
Everyone knows that a Lisp program is a bunch of things you load into a REPL and then throw commands at!
20:14
<&McMartin>
Except, um, this actually doesn't appear to be sarcasm
20:14
<&ToxicFrog>
Derakon: counterpoint: Clojure~
20:14
<&McMartin>
Counter-counterpoint: Maven and its ilk (including Leinigen) >_>
20:16
<&McMartin>
Anyway, yeah, this is also more than slightly galling because one of the things they also bragged about is how compiled LISP code is competitive with C and FORTRAN
20:16
<&ToxicFrog>
Countercountercounterpoint: Leiningen does not inflict 1d10 SAN damage every time you run it
20:16
<&McMartin>
So one would think "how do I compile this" would be a reasonable question~
20:16
<&ToxicFrog>
That said, the main thing I was getting at is that your users do not in fact have to have lein/clojure installed
20:16
<&McMartin>
(So would "how are you cheating your measurements"~)
20:16
<&ToxicFrog>
Since you can just do 'lein uberjar' and then ship the resulting jar.
20:17
<&ToxicFrog>
(they do need to have a JVM installed, though, so windows users are SOL~)
20:17
<&Derakon>
(But who cares about Windows anyway, it's such a vanishingly small portion of the market~)
20:17
< Syka>
i had to patch java the other day on a windows box
20:17
<&McMartin>
(I've found myself ultimately doing that with Macs =()
20:17
< Syka>
java 6, update 15
20:18
< Syka>
released in 2009
20:18
< Syka>
at least six thousand 0-days, one of which was the cause of this PC getting one of those fake 'federal police' scams
20:18
< Syka>
the "three billion devices run java" bit of the installer makes me sad
20:19
< Syka>
slightly less sad than it asking me to install the Ask.com toolbar
20:19
<&McMartin>
That's the best part of the installer
20:19
<&McMartin>
Oracle's hard up, man, they need sponsorship help
20:19
< Syka>
from ask
20:19
< Syka>
who the *fuck* is ask
20:19
<@Tamber>
Ask? Oh, I remember them.
20:19
<@Tamber>
Kinda.
20:19
<&McMartin>
They used to be "Ask Jeeves" until the Wodehouse estate got wind of them.
20:19
<&Derakon>
Oh yeah, the gimmick was that you could put in questions and it would extract the keywords for you.
20:20
<&McMartin>
Their gimmick was a search engine that had a bit of a natural language processor in it, which was a moderately big deal prior to 2001.
20:20
< Syka>
oh yeah
20:20
< Syka>
i used them like
20:20 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
20:20
< Syka>
once
20:20
<&McMartin>
It was a little bit smarter than keyword extraction or specific sentence checks
20:20
<&McMartin>
I knew a few folks there back when they mattered
20:21
<&McMartin>
None own up to being the one responsible for having the question "What is the average airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow" prompt the disambiguation question "African or European?"
20:21
<&Derakon>
I remember a time I would have found that kind of thing hilarious.
20:21
<&McMartin>
Yes. The late 90s, when Ask was relevant.
20:21
<&McMartin>
>_>
20:21
< Syka>
also, when people knew what monty python was
20:21
<&Derakon>
Heh.
20:21 * Syka quietly sobs
20:22
<&McMartin>
Actually, the other thing they did that I think they actually did first in a public-facing way, was to destructure queries with numerical answers
20:22
<&Derakon>
Explain?
20:22
<&McMartin>
Which Google caught up to a couple years ago~
20:22
<&McMartin>
Google "25 C in F"
20:22
< Syka>
want to see something neat?
20:22
<&Derakon>
Ahh.
20:23
<&McMartin>
Of course, *these* days we have Wolfram Alpha
20:23
< Syka>
wolfram alpha scares me sometimes
20:23
< Syka>
also, sometimes it gets it hilariously wrong
20:24
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: no, the best part of the installer is the way it randomly selects which registry keys (sometimes "none") to put install information into~
20:24
< Syka>
oh and
20:24
< Syka>
the best bit of the installer?
20:24
< Syka>
you need a java tool to uninstall old, insecure versions
20:24
<&Derakon>
Which version of Java does it run~?
20:24
< Syka>
well, depends
20:25
< Syka>
it's a browser plugin
20:25
<&McMartin>
TF: Pretty sure that's a fixed function of OS, OS type, OS subtype, which version of Java installed down to the point release, and architecture.
20:25
< Syka>
so whichever one happens to be active!
20:25
<&McMartin>
That said
20:25
<&McMartin>
12:19 < Syka> want to see something neat?
20:25
<&McMartin>
Yes!
20:25
< Syka>
oh
20:25
< Syka>
well
20:25
< Syka>
i was going to show somethig neat
20:25
<&ToxicFrog>
McMartin: for the purposes of "I want to launch a java program, or propt the user if it's not installed", that is functionally indistinguishable from total randomness~
20:25
< Syka>
but then it didnt work
20:26
< Syka>
I used to be able to google "htc desire weight" and google gave me a number
20:26
< Syka>
now it doesnt work :(
20:26
<&McMartin>
=(
20:26
<&McMartin>
Clearly that is less important than the ability to DO A BARREL ROLL.
20:26
<@Tamber>
Of course.
20:26
< Syka>
um
20:26
< Syka>
hmm
20:26
<@Tamber>
I mean, just look at the comparitive number of times each has been used!
20:26
<@Tamber>
;)
20:26
< Syka>
okay, so i have no sidebar
20:27
< Syka>
like, the thing that pulls data
20:27
<&McMartin>
Duckduckgo has it in the text on the first result >_>
20:27
<&McMartin>
...also, this is my first time looking at DDG and the Duck's bowtie is making me think Jeeves.
20:28
< Syka>
...fuck sake
20:28
< Syka>
adblock plus blocks the google sidebar
20:28
<&ToxicFrog>
Google also has it in the text in the first result, but it doesn't hoist it into an infobox.
20:28 * ToxicFrog ponders rewriting steam2backloggery in clojure
20:28
<&McMartin>
Syka: ... isn't that where the ads go?
20:28
<&McMartin>
Or am I misunderstanding?
20:28
< Syka>
McMartin: no, the infobox
20:28
< Syka>
google "The Incredibles" without adblock
20:28
< Syka>
and a info window will pop up on the right
20:29
< Syka>
pulling info from everywhere + ratings
20:29
<&McMartin>
... I just got redirected to google.com.hk
20:29
<&McMartin>
Aha
20:30
< Turaiel>
Adblock affects the infobox? o.o
20:30
< Syka>
yep
20:31
< Turaiel>
Never has for me.
20:31
< Turaiel>
I'm using ABP.
20:31
< Syka>
well, latest EasyList in ABP does
20:31
< Turaiel>
..huh
20:31
< Turaiel>
I just updated it. Worksforme (TM)
20:32
< Syka>
Turaiel: do you have non-intrusive advertising ticked?
20:32
< Turaiel>
Yes
20:32
< Syka>
untick that, then
20:32
< Turaiel>
Still works if I uncheck it
20:32
< Turaiel>
Perhaps it's your Easylist localization?
20:33
< Syka>
sigh it seems to be a .com.au thing
20:33
< Turaiel>
Ah yes, now it's gone
20:39 * Derakon blarghs at joystick control in Python.
20:40
<&Derakon>
Seems like I can either have easy control in 32 bits or an installation mess in 64 bits.
20:40
<&Derakon>
I'm seriously considering setting up a thin client running in 32-bit Python that the main program communicates with over Ethernet or something.
20:41 * TheWatcher taps his electrodigital chronograph, wonders which year this is
20:43
< Syka>
can't you have both?
20:43
<&Derakon>
Both what?
20:44
<&Derakon>
I want easy installation in 64 bits, and that AFAICT doesn't exist.
20:44
< Syka>
like, both pythons
20:44
<&Derakon>
Yes, that's the thin client approach.
20:44
<&Derakon>
It means that the main program can't directly control the joystick; it has to go through a proxy.
20:45
< Syka>
wait, pygame can't do 64bit?
20:45
<&Derakon>
Nyet.
20:45
< Syka>
...is that a mac-only no 64bit?
20:45
<&Derakon>
Google for "pygame 64-bit mac" and you will find advice that says "throw away your 64-bit Python and install 32-bit instead."
20:45
< Syka>
because i am fairly sure that i've run some pygame demos on my 64bit 'boontoo box
20:49
<&McMartin>
"over ethernet or something"
20:49
<&McMartin>
Unix domain sockets~
20:49
<&McMartin>
(If it's on the same machine, that's what you want. It's super-fast reliable stream-based RPC.)
20:49
<&McMartin>
(er, IPC.)
20:49
<&McMartin>
(Inter process communication, not remote procedure call >_<)
20:50
<&Derakon>
Ultimately this will be running on Windows.
20:50
<&Derakon>
So I guess I could skip testing it on my laptop and just write the code directly on the 'doze box.
20:51
<&Derakon>
But that means going to the downstairs lab, which isn't a pleasant work environment. >.>
20:51
<&ToxicFrog>
RDP
20:51
<&Derakon>
Won't let me control the joystick remotely.
20:51
<&McMartin>
Boot camp?
20:51
<&Derakon>
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
20:51
<&Derakon>
I appreciate y'all're trying to help, but mostly I just want to gripe. :)
20:52 * Syka drops virtualbox on Derakon's mac, listens to crunching sounds
20:53 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
20:54
< Syka>
non-foss edition has usb passthrough
20:54
< Syka>
...assuming that works on the mac
20:56
<&ToxicFrog>
So does the FOSS version last I checked
20:57
< Syka>
ToxicFrog: it does?
20:57
< Syka>
hm
20:57
< Syka>
ages ago, it was a non-foss extension thing
20:57
<&McMartin>
Yeah, they've expanded part of that recently
20:57
<&McMartin>
I think just USB 1.0
20:57
<&McMartin>
There's a guy on the devel list that appears to have replicated 2.0 functionality but won't open-source it unless paid to do so.
20:59
< Syka>
...heh
21:00
<&ToxicFrog>
Well, I relied heavily on USB passthrough when writing my thesis, using the version of VirtualBox that sudo zypper in virtualbox installs, so...
21:00
< Syka>
http://qdb.slipgate.za.net/FlyingCircus/341 related to virtualbox in general
21:00
< Syka>
and how hilarious oracle's strategy is
21:01
< Syka>
(since Oracle literally do sell rebranded mysql on rebranded redhat on top of rebranded sun hardware)
21:06
<&McMartin>
Oracle seems to be supporting VBox way the fuck better than Sun did
21:08
< Turaiel>
Everything else is going downhill though
21:09
<&McMartin>
I'd heard a bunch of projects were actually being officially shitcanned; haven't seen more than rumors on that though
21:47
< Syka>
shitcanned is a hilarious word
22:03 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-f7705974.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client closed the connection]
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22:25
< [R]>
What options do I have for passing data to a Fast-CGI stack (from the webserver in front of it)?
22:25
< [R]>
I'd like to be holding cached data on the webserver to pass to the fast-CGI stuff.
22:41 Karono [Karono@Nightstar-0e4527e4.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code
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23:01 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
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23:30 Karono [Karono@Nightstar-0e4527e4.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Client closed the connection]
23:56 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving]
--- Log closed Fri Aug 02 00:00:17 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Thu, 01 Aug 2013< code.20130731.log - code.20130802.log >

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