code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 16 Jul 2013< code.20130715.log - code.20130717.log >
--- Log opened Tue Jul 16 00:00:43 2013
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03:51
<&ToxicFrog>
Oh yeah, Reiv, did you hear about my Best Bug Report Ever? :D
03:52
<@Reiv>
Do eeet
03:53
<&ToxicFrog>
So I get a bug report against vstruct - certain inputs to format p will outright crash the library.
03:54
<@Reiv>
Ow
03:55
<&ToxicFrog>
This also reveals that certain inputs into `i` and `u` are not properly truncated, which is alarming.
03:55
<&ToxicFrog>
Fortunately, it's a simple fix.
03:56
<&ToxicFrog>
But, in the email, he says this
03:56
<&ToxicFrog>
"Hope this helps. This library is very useful for manipulating binary data. Any of my colleagues who have to do the same thing (unpacking/packing binary network data) with C# turn green with envy when I show them a two-liner where they have to write pages of code to achieve the same :)"
03:56
<&ToxicFrog>
So, this has me :Ding like crazy
03:56
<&ToxicFrog>
I fix the bug, email him the info, he mails back
03:57
<&ToxicFrog>
His job is building and testing radiotherapy machines for cancer treatment.
03:57
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: Curing Cancer, One Man-Hour At A Time!
03:57
<&ToxicFrog>
He's been migrating their terrible testing framework to a set of Lua-based tools, using my library for all bit-pushing to the devices.
03:57
<&ToxicFrog>
In doing so he's automated huge swathes of testing and improved test coverage to boot.
03:58
<&ToxicFrog>
"PS: So in the furthest sense, I guess you could say that your library may have helped save someone's life."
03:58
<&ToxicFrog>
There is no :D big enough
03:58
<&Derakon>
On a related note, y'all should give blood~
03:58
<&ToxicFrog>
Not bad for something I hacked together five years ago because I wanted to view System Shock map files!
03:58
<&ToxicFrog>
Derakon: I can't :(
03:58
<@Reiv>
Bahahaha.
03:58
<&Derakon>
Alas.
03:59
<&Derakon>
International travel DQs you or something?
03:59
<&ToxicFrog>
Otherwise, well, we have regular blood drives at work.
03:59
<@Reiv>
SHODAN will be /most annoyed/ that she helped cure the imperfections of the meatbags!
03:59
<&ToxicFrog>
Specifically, living in the UK during the mad cow scare does.
03:59
<&Derakon>
Likewise. Bimonthly visits from the Bloodmobile.
03:59
<&Derakon>
Ah, yes.
03:59
<&ToxicFrog>
Symbol is likewise disqualified because she sets off false positives in one of the blood-borne disease tests.
03:59
<@Reiv>
... which disease? That could end up rather stressful.
04:00 * Reiv is DQ'd, though could technically fix that with nontrivial ongoing effort.
04:00
<&ToxicFrog>
Well, it is a false positive, but they don't want to have to constantly re-check her blood, so she's just completely disqualified.
04:00
<&Derakon>
The blood bank tends to err on the side of caution
04:00
<&Derakon>
Sometimes to an excessive extent.
04:01
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: Right, but "Oh, I'm sorry, you have Hep C" would still give the average person an excellent opportunity to examine their cardiovascular rythmn fitness.
04:01
<&ToxicFrog>
(I don't actually remember what the disease is; they were very emphatic in the initial mail that she didn't actually have it)
04:02
<@Reiv>
(Aaah. So they told her she false-positived simultaneously with telling her at all?)
04:03
<@Reiv>
(Here I was figuring "I'm sorry, you have X" "ZOMGWTFBBQ *retest*" "Oh, huh. False positive.")
04:03
<&ToxicFrog>
(Yeah, no, they get the positive result, re-check it with a different, more reliable test, determine that it's a false positive, and then send out the mail)
04:04
<@Reiv>
(That's far more reasonable, then.)
04:04 * Reiv just can't give blood 'cuz he's on de Good Drugz. >_>
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04:08 * Vornicus can't give blood because he'd draw more than the bag holds.
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04:41 * Alek visits the neighborhood vampires every other month too.
04:42
<@Alek>
they have trouble getting enough out of me. ._.
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04:47
<@Reiv>
ToxicFrog: That fellow sounds like someone whom it would be fun to get to know.
04:47
<@Reiv>
Not least because he's so darn nice in the bug reports. :p
04:47
<@Reiv>
(Also at that level of work, is there anything else he'd like help with?~)
04:52
<@Reiv>
So, ToxicFrog
04:52
<@Reiv>
Teach me the wonders of vstruct
04:52
<@Reiv>
So that I too may save lives~
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05:05
<&McMartin>
Heh.
05:05
<&McMartin>
My friends who fled Yahoo formed a company for death ray targeting~
05:05
<&McMartin>
They're Pythonists, though, so I know that they are not the ones emailing you~
05:06 * Alek snerks.
05:06
<@Alek>
everyone who was smart fled Yahoo.
05:08
<~Vornicus>
actually, something with the power of vstruct would be nice for python as well...
05:09
<&McMartin>
I think struct is down to about half of vstruct now.
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05:13
<@Reiv>
Someone fill me in on vstruct and why it is so scary.
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05:16
<&McMartin>
Scary or awesome?
05:18
<@Reiv>
Whichever!
05:19
<~Vornicus>
vstruct is basically the end-all of binary file format readers.
05:19
<~Vornicus>
(and writers)
05:21
<@Reiv>
So... it's good, then?
05:21
<@Reiv>
And TF wrote a lua interface with it?
05:21
<&McMartin>
No, TF designed and wrote it from scratch, in Lua.
05:22
<@Reiv>
... OK then.
05:23
<@Reiv>
And he went from "System Shock Unpacker" to "Generically usable Does Everything On The Planet, in Lua"?
05:23
<@Reiv>
If he did this why hasn't he gone and done something like it to Python or whatever and become Famous yet?
05:24
<&McMartin>
Python has a basically good enough system that does most of that
05:24
<&McMartin>
It's called "struct"
05:26
<@Alek>
vstruct is the same thing for Lua, only slower and more versatile.
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05:54
<~Vornicus>
vstruct does what struct does, plus it handles things like structuring the data as it comes out, repetition, bitfields...
05:55
<&McMartin>
Reiv: As for why not famous, this is one of those things that most people have thrown together in their own time before
05:55
<&McMartin>
So the reaction to finding a quality implementation is less "holy shit" and more "oh good"
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07:51
< [R]>
WTF
07:52
< [R]>
I can't make interface members protected, but I can make them non-P/P/P?
07:52
< [R]>
(Which means subclasses can /not/ access said members unless they're in the same package
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07:56
< [R]>
Basically I have like 50-event functions. Which ideally should be called only when there's an actual event.
07:56
< [R]>
Guess I get to make them all public, wee!
07:56
< [R]>
D:
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10:15 * TheWatcher blinks
10:15
<~Vornicus>
Beware the Blinking Beholder
10:16
<@TheWatcher>
I think I may need to get a larger shirt.
10:16
<@TheWatcher>
So I can shove this machine under it so ?i can sneak it out of the building
10:17
<@TheWatcher>
time emerge emacs
10:17
<@TheWatcher>
real: 1m14.607s
10:17
<@TheWatcher>
user: 2m0.820s
10:18
<@TheWatcher>
sys: 0m12.080s
10:28
<~Vornicus>
I what
10:31
<~Vornicus>
Where can I get one of those
10:33
<@TheWatcher>
It's a Dell Precision T7600 with 16 cores and 64GB of ram.
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10:41
<~Vornicus>
...want.
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10:50
< abudhabi>
Which is still not good enough to run Dwarf Fortress. :P
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12:41
<@gnolam>
https://github.com/mame/quine-relay
12:47
< RichyB>
I bet that that fucker is mentioned by name on like page six of the Necronomnomnomnomnomicon.
12:47
< RichyB>
Madness. (Not Sparta.)
12:51
<@froztbyte>
haha
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13:35
<&ToxicFrog>
Reiver: well, it's more that I was working on a system shock unpacker, and none of the existing libraries did what I needed, so I decided to write my own as a general-purpose, reusable library rather than an intrinsic part of the unpacker
13:35
<&ToxicFrog>
And I've just kept improving and maintaining it since.
13:37
<&ToxicFrog>
I haven't done it for Python because I don't need it for Python.
13:37
<&ToxicFrog>
Although with Lunatic I'm pretty sure you can use it seamlessly from Python~
13:38
<&ToxicFrog>
Also, vorn has no idea how much hearing it called "the end-all of binary format readers" does for my ego~
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19:59
<&ToxicFrog>
Vornotron: 08:38 <&ToxicFrog> Also, vorn has no idea how much hearing it called "the end-all of binary format readers" does for my ego~
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20:01
< Vornotron>
aahaa
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20:12
<@gnolam>
Urrrgh, someone's coined the expression "post-agile"-.
20:13
<@froztbyte>
<McMartin> Python has a basically good enough system that does most of that
20:13
<@froztbyte>
<McMartin> It's called "struct"
20:13
<@froztbyte>
fwiw, struct is a bit meh, check out construct instead
20:15
<@froztbyte>
(that is, if someone doesn't port vstruct)
20:17
<@froztbyte>
Vornotron: I don't know if github's writeup syntax supports this, but the ToC needs to link to the sections
20:17
<@froztbyte>
because that's a lot of scrolling
20:17
<@froztbyte>
err, ToxicFrog
20:17
<@froztbyte>
i don't know how I derped that
20:17
<@froztbyte>
probably the rage from earlier tonight's events still
20:20
< Vornotron>
gnolam: I like how that thing goes through those languages in alphabetical order.
20:24
<&ToxicFrog>
froztbyte: I'm not sure if it does. I'll investigate.
20:24
<&ToxicFrog>
Because if so, yeah, that would be nice.
20:24
<&ToxicFrog>
(I only just recently converted the README to markdown at all, so I'm still tidying things up)
20:25
<@froztbyte>
yar, I recall you mentioned
20:25
<@froztbyte>
thus figured I'd just note it
20:26 Typh|offline is now known as Typherix
20:40
<&ToxicFrog>
Ooo. Construct is ncie.
20:40
<&ToxicFrog>
It has the combinator and backreference features I've been wanting to include in vstruct.
20:42
<@froztbyte>
https://thoughtstreams.io/froztbyte/dumb-and-obvious-thoughts-about-parsing-bina ry-pro/
20:42
<&ToxicFrog>
Doesn't support as many data types, though.
20:43
<&ToxicFrog>
So, less featureful than vstruct, but the API looks a lot like what I want vstruct to eventually be.
20:43
<@froztbyte>
it's got a couple of direct primitives for the usual signed/unsigned stuff
20:43
<@froztbyte>
I imagine you might be able to smack the rest together with very low-level stuff
20:44
<@froztbyte>
but vstruct's ability to effectively write bit-oriented parsing strings is pretty nice
20:45
<&ToxicFrog>
Yeah, it looks like it gives you the tools needed to implement that stuff, but vstruct has arbitrary width support for everything baked in.
20:45
<&ToxicFrog>
And weirder formats like fixed point.
20:46 * Vornotron flees again.
20:46
<@froztbyte>
ToxicFrog: how easy would it be to write vstruct code as an inline pipe operation
20:46
<@froztbyte>
?*
20:46
<@froztbyte>
"stream handling" sort of thing, basically
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20:47
<&ToxicFrog>
Well, it can take arbitrary fds to pack/unpack do, including stdin/stdout (with the caveat if that if you try to seek it will throw)
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20:47
<&ToxicFrog>
It's probably not going to be concise enough that you could do it inline, though
20:47
<@froztbyte>
ah
20:48
<&ToxicFrog>
You'd want dd if=in | lua filter.lua | dd of=out, rather than lua -e 'code goes here'
20:48
<@froztbyte>
that's basically what I'm thinking
20:48
<@froztbyte>
some level of buffer set in code, read stdin, doStuff(), pass out
20:48
<&ToxicFrog>
Since you'd need the format string itself, then the call to unpack, the filter operation, and the call to pack
20:48
<&ToxicFrog>
Which is going to be a bit more than a one-liner except for really trivial stuff.
20:49
<&ToxicFrog>
(also, it doesn't have any support for streaming of infinite seqs - you're expected to loop calling unpack() on each record if you need that)
20:49
<&ToxicFrog>
But, yeah, in general, vstruct code that uses stdin/stdout looks exactly like code using an in-memory buffer or a file on disk.
20:50
<@froztbyte>
yeah I expect I'd have to learn some general lua first, write a stream chunking handler thingy
20:51
<&ToxicFrog>
Lua is pretty easy to learn, honestly, and if you already know another dynamically typed HLL like python or js you're at least halfway there
20:51
<@froztbyte>
ah well, not an immediate requirement, I was mostly curious
20:51
<@froztbyte>
ToxicFrog: I actually don't know JS at all, it's something I'm working towards atm
20:51
<@froztbyte>
even though I have lots of information that tell me web dev is terrible
20:51
<&ToxicFrog>
Give me a struct declaration and an example of what you'd want to do with it and I can probably whip up a short example without trouble~
20:52
<@froztbyte>
sec, let me find my crime against humanity
20:52 * Azash suggests that goes in the topic
20:54
<@froztbyte>
ToxicFrog: /query
21:18 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
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21:31
<&ToxicFrog>
So, taking this back out of the /query
21:32
<&ToxicFrog>
It looks like v1.1.4 will include a fix for the p crash/u/i truncation issues reported by radiotherapy dude
21:32
<&ToxicFrog>
And a new public API function, vstruct.records(), for iterating over stream contents.
21:36 * McMartin looks at that quine loop
21:37
<&McMartin>
I notice the original program is also a piece of ASCII art.
21:53
< RichyB>
And good ascii art too.
21:53
< RichyB>
Doubly impressive considering that one stage is Whitespace.
22:07 Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline]
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22:15 Harrower is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
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22:38 Karono [Karono@Nightstar-0e4527e4.optusnet.com.au] has joined #code
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22:45
< RichyB>
Okay, so whoever in the cython/pyrex/etc project thought, "I'll just copy the original lines from the .pxi file into a comment right next to the compiled output in the .c file to make this stuff easier to track down", that person deserves a big hug.
22:46
< RichyB>
Also: intermittent bug in this Python program turns out to be caused by someone iterating the elements of a set() and expecting them to come out in a stable, deterministic order.
22:46
< RichyB>
Joke's on you, fucker! They come out pretty much entirely at random!
22:47
<&McMartin>
sortedset()
22:47
<@froztbyte>
haha
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 17 00:00:59 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Tue, 16 Jul 2013< code.20130715.log - code.20130717.log >

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