| --- Log opened Thu Jun 20 00:00:44 2013 |
| 00:28 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[t-2] |
| 00:33 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 02:53 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 03:29 | <&Derakon> | Quick sanity check: if your hard drive is encrypted, then there's no way to, say, start reading a file from the middle, without having to load the entire thing into memory to decrypt it, right? |
| 03:30 | <&Derakon> | UCSF wants some coworkers to encrypt their hard drives, and they regularly load sub-segments of 20GB data files, so they're worried their workflows will be compromised. |
| 03:32 | <&ToxicFrog> | Depends on the type of encryption. |
| 03:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | If you're using something like whole-device encryption, e.g. dm-crypt, access time should be O(1) for any block. |
| 03:35 | <&Derakon> | Okay, good to know. |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | I have no idea what approach they'd be required to use; it'd be some UCSF-mandated thing. |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | In any case, encryption will still make the drives less fault-tolerant, right? |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | Like, a normal drive you can lose a sector and still recover everything else. |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | IIRC that's not true for encrypted ones. |
| 03:36 | <&Derakon> | (And said coworkers don't really have the budget for a robust backup system, alas) |
| 03:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | Again, it depends on the encryption technology. |
| 03:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | dm-crypt derives a key for each sector based on the master device key, so damage to part of the disk only loses you the damaged sectors. |
| 03:54 | <&Derakon> | Okay, so really the takeaway here is that I need to find out what the encryption scheme would be. |
| 03:54 | <&Derakon> | Though they're still gonna fight it -- encrypting all of their systems would be a massive one-time cost even if it didn't affect their workflows, and they have zero sensitive data so there's no need anyway. |
| 03:57 | < [R]> | Huzzah "we have to be compliant now!?" compliancy maintenance. |
| 04:13 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 04:32 | <&McMartin> | "We are a UNIVERSITY, our science data is not SUPPOSED to be secret" |
| 04:33 | < ktemkin> | That is the kind of thing one might say if I wanted to throw away one's change at tenure. |
| 04:33 | < ktemkin> | I'm always a little bit afraid in the back of my head that someone's going to publish the stuff I'm working on first. |
| 04:33 | < ktemkin> | *if one wanted |
| 04:55 | <&Derakon> | McM: well, it's more that there's no risk to patient confidentiality because there's no patients involved. |
| 04:55 | <&Derakon> | So the only thing a data breach would cost them is someone possibly ninjaing them on publications...and that seems unlikely unless they also steal the analysis along with the data. |
| 05:00 | < ktemkin> | Is there any student data on those machines? |
| 05:01 | <&Derakon> | Define "student data"? |
| 05:01 | < ktemkin> | I can't have off-site backups for a lot of my work, as we're not supposed to take anything student-composed or student information off-site. |
| 05:01 | <&Derakon> | I believe the undergrads mostly do stuff like wash bottles and run basic procedures. |
| 05:03 | < ktemkin> | Half of my research is education-related, so it's a little different for me; but I don't think I'm technically allowed to take student-collected data off campus. |
| 05:03 | < ktemkin> | I guess it depends what's considered "student work". |
| 05:04 | <&Derakon> | Certainly we don't let the undergrads onto the microscope. |
| 05:04 | <&Derakon> | I don't know if they're allowed to use the sequencer, which is the other main source of data. |
| 05:04 | < ktemkin> | I don't think it's just undergraduate. I'm not sure what's federal/state law and what's our bylaws; but we're not allowed to take grad work off-site either. |
| 05:15 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|afk_for_breakfast |
| 05:20 | <&Derakon> | Well, I'll leave that up to the coworkers. They're actually in a different lab; we just collaborate a lot. |
| 05:25 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:41 | | Kindamoody|afk_for_breakfast is now known as Kindamoody |
| 05:41 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel|MARC |
| 05:43 | | Turaiel|MARC is now known as Turaiel[MARC] |
| 06:15 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 06:31 | <@Alek> | stop, collaborate, and listen? |
| 06:38 | | AverageJoe [evil1@Nightstar-4b668a07.ph.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 06:55 | <@Alek> | "World of LISP", donated to the library as part of a will. eh. |
| 06:55 | <@Alek> | but then, you see inside the cover, "To Marian, on her 14th birthday". |
| 06:59 | < AverageJoe> | on my debian box im free to click all the ads i want |
| 06:59 | < AverageJoe> | all the stupid shit on the internet |
| 06:59 | < AverageJoe> | apparently I can use AOL to speed up my peecee for free* |
| 07:01 | <@Alek> | be careful, they're starting to spread viruses and worms that WILL infect *nixen. |
| 07:01 | <&McMartin> | XSS and cookie stealing works everywhere. |
| 07:01 | <@Alek> | that too. |
| 07:02 | < AverageJoe> | im being facetious |
| 07:03 | < AverageJoe> | ;) |
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| 07:25 | <@froztbyte> | doesn't look like gnolam relayed the URL, so here, have some lulz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKgf5PaBzyg |
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| 08:26 | <&McMartin> | ... what the butt |
| 08:26 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 08:27 | <&McMartin> | I'm messing around in Scheme, which doesn't really have a tuple type the way ML, Haskell, Python do |
| 08:27 | <&McMartin> | zip and unzip *are the same function* |
| 08:27 | | * McMartin names it "transpose" |
| 09:00 | <@froztbyte> | applicatives! |
| 09:00 | <@froztbyte> | (I think that's what that kind of thing is called?) |
| 09:04 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:08 | < Syka> | augh internet |
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| 09:46 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, here it's really just an artifact of not having a sharp distinction between lists and tuples |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | zip gives you a list of tuples, unzip gives you a tuple of lists |
| 09:47 | <&McMartin> | And Lisp library functions have a tendency to take arbitrary numbers of arguments |
| 09:47 | | ktemkin is now known as ktemkin[awol] |
| 10:24 | <&McMartin> | Eagh, multivariate versions of these standard functions get ugly as sin |
| 10:24 | <&McMartin> | (define (fold-right f z . lists) |
| 10:24 | <&McMartin> | (if (null? (car lists)) |
| 10:24 | <&McMartin> | z |
| 10:24 | <&McMartin> | (apply f `(,@(map car lists) ,(apply fold-right `(,f ,z ,@(map cdr lists))))))) |
| 10:26 | < RichyB> | Wtf? Why is that so complicated? Oh, lists. |
| 10:27 | <&McMartin> | More precisely, "Becuse the function f can take any number of arguments instead of being restricted to two" |
| 10:27 | < RichyB> | foldr f z [] = z; foldr f z (a:as) = f a (foldr f z as) -- is much simpler |
| 10:27 | <&McMartin> | Yes, but note that f has its type sharply constrained |
| 10:28 | < RichyB> | So what? Pass in a closure for f. |
| 10:28 | <&McMartin> | Also Lisp doesn't have destructuring, which does make this one a lot easier. |
| 10:28 | <&McMartin> | Er |
| 10:28 | < RichyB> | If you want to foldr down multiple lists, zip them together. |
| 10:28 | <&McMartin> | Yes, the intrinsic zip is what's going on here |
| 10:30 | < RichyB> | zip [] _ = []; zip _ [] = []; zip (a:as) (b:bs) = (a,b) : (zip as bs) |
| 10:30 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 10:30 | <&McMartin> | That's not generally how Lisp library functions roll, though. |
| 10:30 | <&McMartin> | map's signature is (map f list1 ... listn), where f is a function of N arguments. |
| 10:31 | <&McMartin> | That said, it's probably faster to use transpose to make that go to a single-argument version. |
| 10:36 | <&McMartin> | Though honestly, maybe not |
| 10:36 | <&McMartin> | foldl stays pretty simple this way |
| 10:36 | <&McMartin> | (define (fold-right f z . lists) |
| 10:36 | <&McMartin> | (if (null? (car lists)) |
| 10:36 | <&McMartin> | z |
| 10:36 | <&McMartin> | Oops, miscopy |
| 10:37 | <&McMartin> | (define (fold-left f z . lists) |
| 10:37 | <&McMartin> | (let loop ((result z) (args lists)) |
| 10:37 | <&McMartin> | (if (null? (car args)) |
| 10:37 | <&McMartin> | result |
| 10:37 | <&McMartin> | (loop (apply f (cons result (map car args))) (map cdr args))))) |
| 10:38 | <&McMartin> | If you don't want to insist that all the argument lists be the same length, you can make that third line be (if (any? null? args) |
| 10:38 | <&McMartin> | Well, after you define any?. |
| 10:38 | <&McMartin> | (This little exercise was "Throw together all the really basic functions for doing stuff that R5RS lacks and everyone else has) |
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| 10:43 | < RichyB> | Isn't everyone on R6RS now or was the politics around that one too nasty? |
| 10:44 | <&McMartin> | R6RS kind of turned into Common LISP, AFAICT |
| 10:45 | <&McMartin> | The only full R6RS implementation I'm aware of offhand is Racket, which is also so extended it might as well be its own language now. |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | I've been specifically working with Gambit here, which stuck to R5RS and has its own set of extensions, mostly involving C FFI |
| 10:46 | <&McMartin> | That latter is good enough that I want to at least try to build a demo in it. |
| 10:47 | <&McMartin> | Right then. With any?, every? filter, transpose, fold-left, and fold-right, the bare minimum is now there. |
| 10:48 | <&McMartin> | It's got drop but not take; the way Lisp tends to do truthiness, any? is actually drop-until; take, take-while, and drop-while might be worth having too, but they're honestly less exciting when you're living in a world of eager evaluation. |
| 10:56 | <&McMartin> | http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-1/srfi-1.html is sort of the Actual Attack On This. |
| 11:08 | | * sshine decided he wanted to get into Lisp this summer. |
| 11:15 | <&McMartin> | One hilarious side effect of working in Scheme is that if I do anything with complex data structures in it, it's not too difficult to translate the result into a C library. >_< |
| 11:16 | | * TheWatcher eyes this old code, eughs |
| 11:19 | <@TheWatcher> | It's not too bad, but chunks have all the MVC code jumbled together in a hideous mess. |
| 11:24 | < RichyB> | McMartin: huhokay. |
| 11:25 | < RichyB> | I'm becoming a big fan of "bolt a really good C FFI to it then have a party" as a mechanism for bootstrapping programming languages into practicality. ? |
| 11:27 | | Vornicus is now known as Vash |
| 11:31 | <@TheWatcher> | ... |
| 11:31 | <@TheWatcher> | What the fuck was I thinking?! |
| 11:32 | <@froztbyte> | hahahaha |
| 13:12 | <@Tamber> | It's Perl. You weren't *thinking*; merely acting as a conduit for eldritch horrors from the beyond. |
| 13:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Hmm |
| 13:14 | <@TheWatcher> | You know, I can't actually argue with that. |
| 13:15 | <@Tamber> | The sigils must flow. |
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| 17:50 | < AnnoDomini> | I have a feeling we are increasingly in need of a system like the peoples from Anathem had. |
| 17:51 | < AnnoDomini> | That is, a credibility system for stuff on the internet. |
| 17:53 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm searching for a song from 1840 in mp3 format, to download. And all the links on the first page of Google appear to be complete shit. |
| 17:55 | < AnnoDomini> | I do not want a downloader. I do not want to pay to download this. I do not want to just hear it. I do not want broken links. |
| 17:55 | < Syka> | AnnoDomini: would archive.org have it? |
| 17:55 | < AnnoDomini> | I just found it, several links inside. |
| 17:57 | < AnnoDomini> | Google already does "this link is dangerous". Why not "this link is 99% likely to be garbage". |
| 17:57 | | * Alek thumbs up. |
| 17:57 | <@Alek> | glad I'm not the only one who's thought of that. |
| 17:58 | <@Alek> | and Google would then get more money from these garbage sites, because they'll be advertising to be hosted up top. but we'll know! because the ad links are separate. XD |
| 18:00 | | * AnnoDomini puts Die Wacht am Rhein on repeat. |
| 18:07 | <@Alek> | Watch on the Rhine is a pretty good book, too. |
| 19:33 | < sshine> | (Haskell) do people here think "y <- return $ f x1 x2", or perhaps "y <- f <$> x <*>", are ugly replacements to "let y = f x1 x2"? the advantage is that I only have "<-" lines and no "let"-lines in my do-segments. |
| 19:33 | < sshine> | oops, "y <- f <$> x1 <*> x2" |
| 19:34 | < sshine> | I mean, I am sort of wrapping non-monadic expressions unnecessarily much just to get a homogenic syntax. I don't think there is any efficiency loss, but it might be frowned upon. |
| 19:35 | < sshine> | I did think of making monadic wrappers for my non-monadic functions by simply sticking a return in them... |
| 19:38 | < jeff> | personally, I think the first one looks cleaner by far |
| 19:41 | < sshine> | that's what I'll stick with, I think... I did use the <$> and <*> operators when making monadic parser combinators and lifting AST constructors, but here they're not so nice. |
| 19:56 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 20:21 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
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| 20:38 | <@Alek> | "When all those wannabe hackers ask me what OS is on my computer, I honestly tell them 7. Debian GNU/Linux 7.0" |
| 20:39 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 20:43 | < AnnoDomini> | Pff. |
| 20:44 | | * AnnoDomini has shifted into Testing from Stable. |
| 20:45 | < AnnoDomini> | Better software packages were acquired. |
| 20:50 | < sshine> | I just say Emacs. |
| 20:50 | < sshine> | Emacs and Chrome. |
| 20:50 | < sshine> | they run inside a virtual machine called Linux. |
| 20:51 | <@Alek> | x: All right, pop quiz. What's the name of the unary function to subtract one from a variable? |
| 20:51 | <@Alek> | y: I forget..... |
| 20:51 | <@Alek> | x: Well, think about it. Meanwhile, what's the name of the function to add one to a variable? |
| 20:51 | <@Alek> | x: Hint, two pluses... |
| 20:52 | <@Alek> | y: Increment! |
| 20:52 | <@Alek> | x: Correct! See, you know it! Now what's the function to subtract, again? It sounds almost the same! |
| 20:52 | <@Alek> | y: Excrement? |
| 20:54 | < sshine> | haha |
| 20:55 | < sshine> | that reminds me of people who list "C+" on their resume as one of their programming skills. |
| 20:55 | < sshine> | it seems so natural! |
| 20:56 | <@Alek> | -_- |
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| 21:20 | < jeff> | So a client is getting an error with xpdfrc (the common file you need to interact with acrobat), something to do with missing display fonts. Anyone know of any common bugs and fixes with that file, I've heard there are a few common issues |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jun 21 00:00:58 2013 |