| --- Log opened Thu Jun 13 00:00:07 2013 |
| 00:17 | | * Derakon makes a post on the TASVideos forums about his gamestate serialization question, gets a response: "Use XML." |
| 00:17 | <&Derakon> | 2x facepalm combo. |
| 00:28 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 00:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Derakon: beat them to death with their own skull |
| 00:42 | < Turaiel> | Does anyone know if a ListView in WPF can be used to display a grid of custom controls? |
| 00:48 | <@McMartin> | Seems like it should |
| 00:51 | < Turaiel> | Hmm |
| 00:51 | < Turaiel> | I don't know if I can make it do something other than column view |
| 00:52 | <@McMartin> | I'm only saying 'seems like it should' because I know Swing can, and I'm kind of assuming WPF is strictly better than Swing |
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| 01:45 | < Turaiel> | Huh |
| 01:45 | < Turaiel> | I really don't get this whole event thing |
| 01:46 | < Turaiel> | Am I not supposed to subscribe to an event in the same class it's defined in? |
| 01:46 | <@McMartin> | You could but it would kind of silly; normally you do it to to communicate across classes. |
| 01:47 | < Turaiel> | Oh good, I got it working |
| 01:48 | < Turaiel> | hm |
| 01:48 | < Turaiel> | Well, it will be in a separate class later. |
| 01:49 | < Turaiel> | I guess I SHOULD just do that now to prevent confusion |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | One nice thing is that this gets to bypass encapsulation. |
| 01:49 | <@McMartin> | If the event is public, someone who can see their own private method can assign that private method to your event. That gives the guy who owns the event the ability to call that private method by calling the event. |
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| 02:38 | < Turaiel> | So, I'm trying to set the parent of my secondary window |
| 02:38 | < Turaiel> | But the secondary window is trying to use the parent before the main window sets itself as parent |
| 02:47 | <&Derakon> | I would expect you could provide the parent as a parameter to the window's constructor. |
| 02:48 | < Turaiel> | ..good idea. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jun 13 11:31:09 2013 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jun 13 11:31:17 2013 |
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| 13:54 | <@Azash> | Out of curiosity, is there any reason baud rates tend to be 75 times a power of 2? |
| 13:55 | <@TheWatcher> | That information is not available at your current security clearance. |
| 13:57 | <@Azash> | If I wanted that answer I would have emailed the question to myself :P |
| 13:59 | < [R]> | Azash: presumably same reason displays are powers of 2 times 5. |
| 14:00 | <@Tamber> | Hysterical raisins? |
| 14:04 | < Syka> | because they are |
| 14:10 | <@Azash> | [R]: You mean 16:10 ratio? I don't know the exact reason why they are that either :b It was just something I was wondering about and I figured this would be a good place to ask |
| 14:11 | <@McMartin> | I think the way we got to 16:10 was that we started at 4:3, then then they squared those for widescreen (16:9), and then people decided 16:9 was inconvenient for general computing, which led to 16:10 because 10 is the number after 9 |
| 14:12 | < sshine> | McMartin, I'd like to hear a similar description for the number 75. |
| 14:13 | <@McMartin> | No idea on that one |
| 14:28 | < sshine> | "Common modem bps rates were formerly 50, 75, 110, 300, 1200, 2400, 9600" from http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Modem-HOWTO-23.html -- my guess is that new modems were released doubling capacity for advertising purposes, and it just happened that 75 became the initial number. if there are any specific reasons to 75 being the initial number, I don't know. |
| 14:29 | <@Azash> | Righto, thanks |
| 14:30 | < sshine> | it seems as if it is sometimes doubled, sometimes tripled, sometimes quadripled. I'd guess it is competition that drives the specific factor. |
| 14:32 | <@McMartin> | The initial was probably the lowest number that their test users decided was "fuck it, good enough' |
| 14:32 | <@McMartin> | "Get it to market" |
| 15:14 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 15:27 | < sshine> | hmm... 24 applicants for 10 TA positions in the introduction to functional programming course this year. |
| 15:28 | < sshine> | (for the record, last year there were 8 applicants.) |
| 15:33 | <@McMartin> | Awesome that there's that level of interest. |
| 15:33 | <@McMartin> | Less awesome if this means you now have to face stiff competition~ |
| 15:44 | < sshine> | I don't know if I have to. I also applied for the "Advanced Programming" course (monads in haskell + concurrency in erlang) and the compilers course, so it's not a big loss if I don't get it. but I'm the only one who got mentioned by name (positively) in the evaluations for the past three years. |
| 15:45 | < sshine> | and the professor asked me personally if I was applying before he got the huge pile of applicants, which means I think he had an interest in me before competition was a factor. |
| 15:46 | < sshine> | still, he said he would replace half of all the old TAs. I think it means either to get rid of the ones whom he chose out of necessity, or to get rid of some of the old farts who prevent newcomers from getting TA experience (that could be me). |
| 15:47 | < sshine> | a funny side-note: I wrote to him and recommended that he hired my flatmate, who studies insurance mathematics, and he confirmed that he would most likely do that. it'd be kind of funny if she got the job and I didn't. :) |
| 15:49 | < sshine> | and yes, I've never seen that level of interest before. usually they have to get unwilling PhDs in overcrowded classes to do it. |
| 15:58 | <@McMartin> | Well, seems like a healthy thing overall |
| 15:58 | <@McMartin> | Good luck to you, anyway =) |
| 15:59 | < sshine> | hehe, thanks. :) |
| 16:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: except that 16:10 was popular for computing before 16:9 was, and now it's on the way out |
| 16:15 | <&ToxicFrog> | Which is kind of terrible |
| 16:16 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, the key there is "for computing" - it seems to be on the way out because PCs-as-media-centers produced pressure to conform to the film/TV standards. |
| 16:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | I heard it was because 16:9 screens are cheaper per unit area. |
| 16:21 | <@Tamber> | It certainly helps. |
| 16:21 | <@Azash> | Even if they are the same price per unit area, 16:10 takes more area for the same diagonal |
| 16:23 | <@McMartin> | That is a strange thing if so |
| 16:23 | <@McMartin> | Unless it's because of economy of scale, in which case, that is part of the pressure |
| 16:24 | <&ToxicFrog> | McMartin: AIUI, it's because most of the screen material is made in various multiples of 16:9 resolutions for TVs and suchlike; if you're making 16:10, you either need to get it made in less common sizes or discard some of the materials. |
| 16:24 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, OK, that is the kind of thing I meant by "pressure" above |
| 16:25 | <@McMartin> | The joy of having windowing systems is that as long as you can construct windows with 16:9 ratios, you can play your Blu-Rays undistorted, etc. |
| 16:28 | < Syka> | or you make your video player not suck |
| 16:28 | < Syka> | and make it scale correctly :p |
| 16:30 | <@McMartin> | Er |
| 16:31 | <@McMartin> | The idea here being that video players that are dedicated devices such as DVD players and Blu-Ray players will not have windowing systems. |
| 16:32 | <@McMartin> | And that the expectation is that when one buys such a screen one will not be letter/pillarboxing Literally Everything |
| 16:32 | <@McMartin> | While with a PC that *is* the expectation, more or less. |
| 16:34 | <@McMartin> | In my book the best part of 16:10 is that 16 and 10 are not relatively prime. >_< |
| 16:34 | <@McMartin> | Srsly |
| 16:34 | <@McMartin> | Is it too much to ask for both square pixels and a screen that can be evenly tiled with groups of same |
| 16:35 | <@McMartin> | (One got this with 4:3 as well because 4 and 3 were sufficiently small numbers that the numbers of multiples tended to have 4 or 3 as factors in them, letting you weasel out that way) |
| 16:36 | <@McMartin> | (16 and 9... not so much) |
| 16:36 | <@gnolam> | Azash: that is the big thing, yes. The wider you make the screen, the larger you can claim it is while not actually increasing the surface area much. |
| 16:36 | <@gnolam> | And this is just one of the many reasons I hate using the diagonal as a screen measurement. |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 13 16:45:16 2013 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jun 13 16:45:23 2013 |
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| --- Log opened Thu Jun 13 16:55:25 2013 |
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| 16:59 | < RichyB> | I/O, I/O, it's off to disk we go... |
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| --- Log opened Thu Jun 13 17:49:01 2013 |
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| 17:52 | <@froztbyte> | <RichyB> Protip: if you start qemu-system-i386 or qemu-system-x86_64 without specifying "-machine pc,accel=kvm" or "-machine pc,accel=xen" then it will go surprisingly slowly. |
| 17:52 | <@froztbyte> | lulz |
| 17:52 | <@froztbyte> | yes |
| 17:52 | <@froztbyte> | way back when I was a lot more green, and initially heard about kvm being integrated with qemu, I was all "....that sounds dumb. emulating is terrible and slow." |
| 18:06 | < RichyB> | It's the other way around, right? |
| 18:06 | < RichyB> | kvm virtualises the CPU and qemu is used for its massive suite of already-written-and-tested device emulations? |
| 18:06 | < RichyB> | (for certain values of "massive") |
| 18:08 | <@McMartin> | When you combine them yeah |
| 18:08 | <@McMartin> | qemu started out originally as somethin glike Bochs, though, didn't it? |
| 18:08 | <@McMartin> | It *can* emulate the CPU |
| 18:13 | < RichyB> | qemu was written by Fabrice Bellard. |
| 18:13 | < RichyB> | If you don't give it an accelerator, it falls back to one called "tcg". |
| 18:14 | < RichyB> | qemu is a JIT-ing CPU emulator. |
| 18:14 | < RichyB> | Bochs is just a plain C program, Qemu produces host-native code to emulate the guest CPU. |
| 18:15 | < RichyB> | This is why you can run ARM binaries on x86 at barely-acceptable speeds with qemu, rather than the unusable performance that you'd expect from an emulator. |
| 18:34 | | * iospace looks at this code |
| 18:34 | <@iospace> | ... |
| 18:34 | | * iospace double takes |
| 18:34 | <@iospace> | ... wow you guys are idiots |
| 18:35 | | * RichyB sniffles |
| 18:35 | | * RichyB doe eyes |
| 18:35 | < RichyB> | ...me? ;-; |
| 18:36 | <@iospace> | i'm talking about co-workers |
| 18:36 | < AnnoDomini> | TheWatcher[afk]: You run Starforge, right? |
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| 19:07 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: I quoted my thoughts-at-the-time verbatim |
| 19:07 | <@froztbyte> | like I said, I was pretty green at the time :) |
| 19:08 | < RichyB> | My question was "please confirm my beliefs?" not "haha you dumbarse". ? |
| 19:08 | <@froztbyte> | me-from-6-years-ago probably deserved a couple of clueslaps |
| 19:09 | < RichyB> | Perfectly reaonable mistake. |
| 19:09 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: oh |
| 19:11 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, iirc kvm's pitch is a bunch of in-kernel vm operations tied to vt-d and whatever the amd thing was called |
| 19:12 | <@froztbyte> | vmx? |
| 19:14 | <@froztbyte> | whereas the paravirt thing enabled near-CPU rates of action by effectively just doing bytecode patching on the opcalls |
| 19:14 | <@froztbyte> | since CPUs didn't have the extensions necessary to do hardware assist for virt stuff |
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| 19:34 | < jeff> | Does anybody know the difference between initializing an application object with CreateObject("Outlook.Application") and New Outlook.Application in vb.net? |
| 19:35 | <@McMartin> | My guess is that the former uses reflection mechanics and will be slightly slower, but also won't require you to have Outlook's bindings on the system while you compile |
| 19:37 | < jeff> | Which would be better for post program cleanup |
| 19:37 | < ktemkin[work]> | If that were the case, wouldn't you need to use VB's reflection mechanisms in order to use any of the resultant object's properties or methods (beyond those that are inherented from Object)? |
| 19:37 | < ktemkin[work]> | (You wouldn't be able to cast it to Outlook.Application without having the bindings installed.) |
| 19:38 | < ktemkin[work]> | jeff: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa241758(v=vs.60).aspx |
| 19:39 | <@McMartin> | ktemkin[work]: I admit to not being completely up on this, but isn't that how you often interact with stuff like WMI? |
| 19:39 | <@McMartin> | Oooh, OK, CreateObject is more than reflection, it looks like. |
| 19:39 | <@McMartin> | This Article Is Important |
| 19:41 | < ktemkin[work]> | McMartin: I'm not sure what the paradigmatic way to do that kind of thing in VB would be; I haven't touched it in years. |
| 19:42 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, and I've never used it at all except in the sense of "I wrote a COM object that I know at least one VB client used" |
| 19:42 | < ktemkin[work]> | I know that C# has a new type called "dynamic" that avoids compile-time type-checking, so you could create an object with reflection and then use its properties/methods without the additional level of indirection. |
| 19:42 | < jeff> | Objects that will be used with Microsoft Transaction Server must be created using CreateObject. That's new. |
| 19:43 | < ktemkin[work]> | I have no idea if VB has a similar mechanism. |
| 19:43 | <@McMartin> | jeff: Yeah, that was the bit I saw and then realized "Oh, this *isn't* just a reflective invocation" |
| 19:44 | < jeff> | same, I'm switching to that for now, at this point i'm a bit out my depth but I'm on a timeline so a bit of guessing is my best shot |
| 19:46 | <@McMartin> | It seems like CreateObject is the "safer" one |
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| 19:52 | <@iospace> | i swear to the gods i wanna skullfuck my co-workers sometimes |
| 19:53 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | AnnoDomini: yeah |
| 19:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:53 | < jeff> | what happened? |
| 19:53 | < AnnoDomini> | TheWatcher: Deathcookie is down. |
| 19:53 | < AnnoDomini> | Or so it seems. |
| 19:54 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I've had to move domain hosters, and I am in the middle of recreating CNAMEs |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 13 20:00:56 2013 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jun 13 20:01:00 2013 |
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| 20:06 | < jeff> | Maybe someone here can figure this out. So I made a program that processes email attachments and then moves them to a processed folder. I release both outlook and the objects I create for it, but outlook is still open as a process post release |
| 20:06 | < jeff> | and when certain users try and send receive from outlook it tells them the folders I browsed are still in use by an external program |
| 20:07 | <@Azash> | Sounds like the release isn't happening |
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| 20:08 | < jeff> | I can't figure out why, I've checked a hudnred times over, all objects are released with System.Runtime.InteropServices.Marshal.ReleaseComObject(obj) and obj = Nothing |
| 20:11 | < jeff> | and it dosen't look like it's launching a seperate instance of outlook, but piggy backing the open when everytime there is one |
| 20:13 | < ktemkin[work]> | jeff: A quick google suggests this might be relevant: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1827059/why-use-finalreleasecomobject-instead -of-releasecomobject |
| 20:14 | < jeff> | tried already |
| 20:15 | < jeff> | the lines I copied in were a bit old, same lines, but I am using final release com object |
| 20:16 | <@TheWatcher> | AnnoDomini: deathcookie's record is there now, but it may take a while for the record to propagate. |
| 20:16 | < AnnoDomini> | I can access it! |
| 20:16 | <@TheWatcher> | Jolly good. |
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| 20:50 | <@froztbyte> | https://plus.google.com/111090511249453178320/posts/cr4jTsfxVg8 |
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| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: so you'll find this entertaining |
| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | I make a vm now with qcow2, intention of being able to snapshot it |
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| 21:28 | <@froztbyte> | can't find a virt-manager menu entry to actually do the snapshot :D |
| 21:31 | < RichyB> | Halt the vm, issue "virsh snapshot-create-as <vm-name> <snapshot-name>" |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | halt, or pause? |
| 21:31 | < RichyB> | If you don't "shutdown -h now" the domain then you'll end up snapshotting the entirety of its RAM, which will pause it for ages. |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | (ie. can I do runtime snapshotting, presuming I've synced?) |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | oh |
| 21:31 | <@froztbyte> | yeah okay |
| 21:32 | < RichyB> | You can also snapshot with "--disk-only" but that would give you an incoherent FS snapshot :) |
| 21:32 | <@froztbyte> | this is where xen+lvm is really nice |
| 21:32 | < RichyB> | You can *also* snapshot with "--quiesce" but I assume that that requires cooperation from the guest and I have no idea how to arrange that. |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | xm pause domain; xm sync domain; lvm <snapshottery> <here>; xm unpause domain |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | just a shame lvm is shit |
| 21:33 | < RichyB> | What does "sync domain" do? |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | I should really give btrfs subvolumes and snapshotting some use sometime, I'm entirely unfamiliar with the interfaces |
| 21:33 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: syncs, basically |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: the dom0 can handle some queueing/buffering for the guests |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | `xm sync` just flushes that out for * |
| 21:34 | < RichyB> | Causes the guests to sync() their filesystems into a consistent state so that the snapshots will be mountable? |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | also, this knowledge is 5 years old, the commands may have entirely changed now |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | RichyB: no, the host |
| 21:34 | < RichyB> | uh |
| 21:34 | <@froztbyte> | in the specific case I'm dealing with now, that's not an issue |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | but yes, for the general case you want the guest to sync() as well |
| 21:35 | < RichyB> | What's the use of that, when the guest is going to have the filesystem mounted rw and therefore potentially incoherent? |
| 21:35 | <@froztbyte> | it's fine if you have extremely low-write guests or guests where you know the write behaviour |
| 21:36 | < RichyB> | Right, and you pick filesystems on the guests that always order writes for consistency? |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | yeah |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | my exact usecase here is snapshotting a mikrotik vm |
| 21:38 | <@froztbyte> | because I need to work on qos rules and don't feel like re-installing one later when I want the second node for testing |
| 21:39 | <@froztbyte> | also yay to linux and bridges for providing me with a real fake phy to push traffic through |
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