| --- Log opened Sun May 12 00:00:15 2013 |
| 00:41 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 00:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:59 | | * Derakon mutters at Python's JSON parser, wonders why it can't give reasonable error messages. |
| 00:59 | <&Derakon> | There's plenty of JSON validators out there that do. |
| 00:59 | <&Derakon> | I just shouldn't have to use them~ |
| 01:03 | < [R]> | $ node -e 'console.log(JSON.parse("{not:\"working\"}"))' |
| 01:03 | < [R]> | undefined:1 |
| 01:03 | < [R]> | |N @|N9 |
| 01:03 | < [R]> | ^ |
| 01:03 | < [R]> | SyntaxError: Unexpected token n |
| 01:03 | < [R]> | It's worse than that ^? |
| 01:03 | <&Derakon> | Well, it gives valid errors sometimes. |
| 01:03 | <&Derakon> | Other times it'll just say "Could not decode JSON object". |
| 01:03 | <&Derakon> | (e.g. because you put a comma at the end of the last entry in the file) |
| 01:06 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 01:32 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 01:41 | <&McMartin> | OK, that's text rendering working. |
| 01:46 | < sshine> | what are some Robozzle alternatives? |
| 01:47 | < sshine> | specifically I'm thinking about the game where you paint robots in a factory. |
| 01:47 | <&McMartin> | I am totally unfamiliar with Robozzle |
| 01:47 | < sshine> | I once played one called Light-Bot. slightly simpler (equivalent to FSMs), but still entertaining. |
| 01:48 | < sshine> | a 'computational thinking' game |
| 01:48 | <~Vornicus> | ...I seem to remember that game. |
| 01:48 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:48 | < sshine> | I remember McM played the one with a factory where you have to repeat some color pattern. I'm sure most of us inhere played it, though. what was its name? |
| 01:49 | < sshine> | manufactoria! |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | Oh! |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, Manufactoria I remember |
| 01:49 | <~Vornicus> | I wrote a manufactoria sim. |
| 01:49 | <&McMartin> | But that wasn't painting robots |
| 01:50 | <~Vornicus> | I seem to remember one - uh - you could use a spots painter or a stripes painter or |
| 01:52 | | Turaiel[Offline] is now known as Turaiel |
| 01:56 | <~Vornicus> | and you had to build a process that would paint the appropriate pattern - say, white, with blue spots, overlaid with green stripes. |
| 02:04 | | * Derakon eyes Python, wonders why "% 2d" % 17 prints ' 17'. |
| 02:06 | <&Derakon> | It seems like using a "% 2d" construct or the like, Python insists on having at least 1 leading space. |
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| 02:11 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 02:15 | | AverageJoe [evil1@53D63E.83C36D.6B41BB.DE4FC4] has joined #code |
| 02:23 | <&McMartin> | That's for the sign character, I think |
| 02:23 | <&McMartin> | Try it with -17~ |
| 02:29 | <&Derakon> | Hmph, but I don't want a space for the sign~ |
| 02:29 | <&Derakon> | (You're right, incidentally) |
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| 02:38 | <&McMartin> | Try "%2s" % str(17) |
| 02:39 | <&McMartin> | My misspent youth as a BASIC programmer is totally showing |
| 02:44 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 02:48 | <&Derakon> | ;_; |
| 02:48 | <&McMartin> | Hah, though actually, that trick doesn't work in CBM BSAIC |
| 02:49 | <&McMartin> | *BASIC |
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| 07:34 | | * McMartin writes up his list of Things That Need To Be Made To Work for C++ or for GM:S to be a workable platform for him. |
| 07:34 | | * McMartin kinds of -_-s. |
| 07:35 | <~Vornicus> | Big long list? |
| 07:36 | <&McMartin> | THe lists aren't that long, but the things in them are a little daunting |
| 07:36 | <&McMartin> | And it's also a reminder that, frex, I'm Going To Need Music And Sound, Where The Hell Will I Source This |
| 07:37 | <&McMartin> | Streaming audio out of zipfiles is one of the things on the C++ side that needs doing |
| 07:40 | <~Vornicus> | oywns hits most projects. You're lucky you thought of it early... |
| 07:46 | | Turaiel is now known as Turaiel[Offline] |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | What the *fuck*, Phil Katz. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | What. The. Fuck. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | OK, so, you put your header information at the end of a file. Fine. |
| 07:46 | <&McMartin> | But you put the magic number at its *start* and you *have the header be of variable length* |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | You are *a bad person* |
| 07:47 | <&McMartin> | I have to scan *the entire file in reverse* to prove that it isn't secretly a ZIP file with a gigantic comment on it |
| 07:48 | <~Vornicus> | wtf? |
| 07:48 | <~Vornicus> | who puts headers at the end of the file? |
| 07:49 | <&McMartin> | Apparently, PKWARE. |
| 07:50 | <&McMartin> | And I believe the idea was that you'd be able to turn a zipfile into a different zipfile by concatenating additional data to it and then a new suffix |
| 07:50 | <&McMartin> | Still |
| 07:51 | <&McMartin> | Doing that and then having a variable-length comment field *after the magic number so that the magic number does not live at a fixed offset* |
| 07:51 | <&McMartin> | Grr |
| 07:51 | < jeroud> | Grr indeed. |
| 07:53 | <&McMartin> | Oh wait, right |
| 07:53 | <&McMartin> | It's at the end because that way you can treat self-extracting zips (which are EXEs with a ZIP jammed on at the end) as if they were a ZIP file with no changes |
| 07:53 | <&McMartin> | Still |
| 07:53 | <&McMartin> | FIXED OFFSETS FOR YOUR MAGIC NUMBERS |
| 08:20 | | syksleep is now known as Syk |
| 09:02 | < Xon> | McMartin, putting variable length headers at the end of a file makes lots of sense when a kilobyte was a shitload of space for archive files |
| 09:03 | | * Vornicus floons |
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| 12:28 | <@Azash> | https://indico.dns-oarc.net/indico/getFile.py/access?contribId=5&resId=1&materia lId=slides&confId=0 |
| 12:30 | <@froztbyte> | oh heh, hadn't seen this as a pdf yet |
| 13:12 | | sykdinner is now known as Syk |
| 13:14 | <@TheWatcher> | Anyone know much about LDAP? Specifically, anyone know a way that you can run an LDAP proxy that will pass queries through to another LDAP server and add more information to returned entries? |
| 13:15 | | * froztbyte only has vague recollections of hating on slapd a couple of years ago |
| 13:15 | <@froztbyte> | appropriately named daemon, though. you keep wanting to slap it. |
| 13:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Frankly, that seems to go for most of LDAP |
| 13:32 | <~Vornicus> | I carefully expunged my memories of ldap. |
| 13:33 | <@TheWatcher> | How something that should be so simple gets so massively fuckedup, I have no idea |
| 13:34 | <@froztbyte> | much like snmp |
| 13:34 | <~Vornicus> | (I sysadminned at a place where ldap was used for logins & shit) |
| 13:34 | <~Vornicus> | (that's all my memory is willing to admit.) |
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| 14:34 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
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| 15:30 | | * AnnoDomini ponders a problem. |
| 15:31 | | * Azash offers a solution |
| 15:32 | < AnnoDomini> | I have a bunch of people with whom I primarily communicate by email. I'm not the boss of them, but the current boss has the leadership acumen of a periwinkle, and certain interests that rely on this group of people want me to gradually take over. But to take over, I would need to be in a position of being informed. As it is, these people do not keep me in the loop much of the time. |
| 15:32 | < AnnoDomini> | Perhaps they communicate by other methods, because they know each other better than they know me. |
| 15:33 | | Thalass [thalass@Nightstar-879f199f.bigpond.net.au] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 15:33 | < AnnoDomini> | So my problem is, what kind of technological thingamajig could I use to set up a keep-everyone-in-the-loop-forever exchange? |
| 15:33 | <@Azash> | A message board? |
| 15:34 | < Syk> | IRC! :D |
| 15:35 | < AnnoDomini> | IRC will probably not work. These people are not exactly the sharpest users of technology, doubly if this technology is old and has its own idiosyncracies. |
| 15:35 | < AnnoDomini> | A message board could work, I suppose. |
| 15:37 | < AnnoDomini> | I'm a bit leery of adding yet another completely separate thing to the giant mess this group uses to do their work. |
| 15:38 | < AnnoDomini> | Let's see... Two Gmail accounts, Livestream account, two Dropbox accounts, website and sound file embedding service. |
| 15:39 | < AnnoDomini> | I need to try to cut down the amount of gmails and dropboxes. |
| 15:40 | < ErikMesoy> | Not to mention the tripod-held video camera, the macbook with one video recording program and one sound editing program, and the giant soundboard. |
| 15:40 | < AnnoDomini> | Connected to the sound board is a thing labelled, I shit you not, "magic black box". |
| 15:40 | < [R]> | Heh |
| 15:41 | | * [R] was going to suggest a wiki |
| 15:42 | <@gnolam> | A simple mailing list? |
| 15:43 | < AnnoDomini> | How do mailing lists work in this context? I want a situation wherein if somebody posts something that isn't explicitly intended as a private message, to be readable by everyone else. |
| 15:43 | < [R]> | Oh |
| 15:43 | < [R]> | Yeah, mailing list would be good. |
| 15:43 | < [R]> | AnnoDomini: that's how they work. Every email to the list is sent to everyone on the list. |
| 15:44 | < AnnoDomini> | OK. That sounds appropriate. How much setup is needed on the end-user side? |
| 15:45 | < [R]> | Possibly none |
| 15:45 | < [R]> | Depends on the ML though |
| 15:45 | <@TheWatcher> | If you don't auto-subscribe them (do auto subscribe them), they need to go to a webform and add their email |
| 15:45 | <@TheWatcher> | otherwise, the list admin can get them on the list |
| 15:45 | < [R]> | ^ |
| 15:45 | <@TheWatcher> | then they just email yourlist@wherever.foo and It Just Works |
| 15:46 | < AnnoDomini> | Great. How do I set one up? |
| 15:46 | <@gnolam> | http://www.list.org/mailman-install/index.html |
| 15:47 | <@TheWatcher> | If you have admin access on a server, yeah, mailman is made of unicorns and rainbows. |
| 15:48 | < AnnoDomini> | Hmm. |
| 15:51 | <@TheWatcher> | (NB: you are going to run into a very long-running Holy War called "Reply-To Munging Considered Harmful". Almost all the arguments against Reply-To munging you will see assume that your list members are not technonumpties. If they are, and you do not set reply-to munging, expect to have hilarious problems) |
| 15:52 | < AnnoDomini> | I don't think I have a server appropriate for this... yet. I'll see if I can get admin access to the website server, and if that has appropriate amenities. |
| 15:52 | <@TheWatcher> | (Also, if you don't want to set up mailman or majordomo or the equivalent yourself, there are options like yahoo groups. Or if all else fails, I run a mailman system) |
| 15:54 | <@Tamber> | "If you happen to brush up against the IT field for any length of time, you're going to run into a very long-running Holy War called "${X} considered harmful". Almost all the arguments against ${X} you will see assume that your ${Y} members are not technonumpties. If they are, and you do not ${X}, expect to have hilarious and SAN-draining problems." |
| 15:54 | < AnnoDomini> | What is RTMCH? |
| 15:55 | <@TheWatcher> | Basically, the mailing list software discards any Reply-To: set on messages sent to the list, and replaces it with Reply-To: thelist@address |
| 15:55 | <@TheWatcher> | (if you set up reply-to munging) |
| 15:55 | <&ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: RTM is where the listserv replaces "Reply-To: <original sender>" wth "Reply-To: <list address>", so hitting "reply" gets you a reply message to the ML rather than to the sender. |
| 15:56 | <&ToxicFrog> | RTMCH is the belief that this is a bad idea because people who want to reply to the whole list can just hit Reply All. |
| 15:56 | <@Tamber> | Which is fine, if the vast majority of your ML can understand the tricky concept of "Reply" and "Reply all" |
| 15:56 | < AnnoDomini> | I don't think this will be a problem. I WANT these people to write public messages unless they take pains to do otherwise. |
| 15:56 | < AnnoDomini> | Well, public for the group. |
| 15:56 | < AnnoDomini> | Not necessarily the whole internets. |
| 16:00 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, exactly. RTM is a good thing here. |
| 16:17 | < AnnoDomini> | OK, no, the server is just a silly thing with a WYSIWYG web interface. No access to things like SSH. |
| 16:23 | < Syk> | find a crappy old desktop |
| 16:23 | < Syk> | :P |
| 16:24 | < Syk> | something with a pentium 4 or such will even do~ |
| 16:24 | < [R]> | Or get TW to host it |
| 16:24 | < [R]> | Or get a VPS |
| 16:24 | < Syk> | those are on the open internet, though |
| 16:27 | < [R]> | Presumably so is their normal email |
| 16:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | Use a Google Group~ |
| 17:31 | < AnnoDomini> | Used. |
| 17:31 | < AnnoDomini> | Thank you, guys. |
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| 22:45 | <@Azash> | AverageJoe made it onto Slashdot's frontpage http://games.slashdot.org/story/13/05/12/0327204/vulnerability-found-in-skyrim-f allout-other-bethesda-games |
| 22:53 | | ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep |
| 23:14 | | * TheWatcher pfffts at these forum posts |
| 23:15 | <@TheWatcher> | Shadowy Forum Poster 1: "...blabla. There is no such thing as black and white, only thousands of shades of gray..." |
| 23:16 | <@TheWatcher> | Shadowy Forum Poster 2: "0,0,0 and 255,255,255" |
| 23:35 | < AnnoDomini> | I approve of this. |
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| --- Log closed Mon May 13 00:00:30 2013 |