| --- Log opened Wed Mar 13 00:00:34 2013 |
| 00:01 | <&ToxicFrog> | ...when did I stop being ToxicFrog|W`rkn? |
| 00:01 | <@Reiv> | When you started slacking~ |
| 00:05 | <@[R]> | (Monday) [15:40:25] <-> ToxicFrog|W`rkn is now known as ToxicFrog |
| 00:05 | <@[R]> | It's currently 1805 Tuesday |
| 00:17 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-f8b1f87b.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Huh. |
| 00:39 | | * ToxicFrog eyes his proxy |
| 00:40 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:41 | <@gnolam> | My Little Proxy: Rerouting Is Magic. |
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| 00:43 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
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| 02:31 | | * Alek shakesfist at gnolam. |
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| 03:44 | <@Alek> | Vr0n: http://imgur.com/gallery/UlsFWfY |
| 03:55 | <~Vornicus> | Alek: I am familiar with the ridiculous failings of MyMathLab, yes |
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| 05:22 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakno |
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| 05:39 | <@Azash> | So, I'm working on a system that involves encrypting files |
| 05:39 | <@Azash> | In Linux, is there any way I can hook the files being opened? |
| 05:41 | <@Azash> | Hm |
| 05:42 | <@Azash> | A problematic thing about this is that it's meant to be encrypted in a cloud storage folder, so I also need to be able to differentiate between eg. dropbox reading the files and the user reading the files |
| 05:43 | <@froztbyte> | inotify |
| 05:43 | <@froztbyte> | but you'll need to monitor them specifically |
| 05:43 | <@Azash> | That will not intercept the file open |
| 05:43 | <@Azash> | Will it? |
| 05:44 | <@froztbyte> | I think you might need to give some more info about what you're trying to achieve |
| 05:44 | <@Azash> | Well, like I said, I'm working with encrypted files, and I need a way to handle file opens so that they return the plaintext |
| 05:46 | <@froztbyte> | no, that's still vague |
| 05:46 | <@froztbyte> | hang on |
| 05:46 | <@Azash> | I don't know how to make that any clearer |
| 05:47 | <@Azash> | Encrypted file -> file opened -> read plaintext from file |
| 05:47 | <&jerith> | I don't think you can do that from the outside. |
| 05:47 | <@froztbyte> | 1) what sort of thing do you have in mind about the hook part of your question? 2) where do dropbox etc fall into the picture, and why do you need to make that differentiation? |
| 05:47 | <&jerith> | Not without a filesystem emulation layer or something. |
| 05:47 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: oh. |
| 05:48 | <@Azash> | 1) Hooking was admittedly the wrong term |
| 05:48 | <@froztbyte> | you mean the decrypt step ~= open? |
| 05:48 | <@Azash> | Yeah |
| 05:48 | | * froztbyte had fopen() in in mind |
| 05:48 | <@Azash> | Or uh |
| 05:48 | <@froztbyte> | s/in in/in/ |
| 05:48 | <@Azash> | Define ~=, lol |
| 05:48 | <@froztbyte> | thus the confusion |
| 05:48 | <@Azash> | But re. 2), I'm working on a tool for doing client-side encryption for cloud storage |
| 05:48 | <@froztbyte> | 'cos see, doing an open() would give you a filehandle, and that you could monitor perfectly happy with inotify :) |
| 05:48 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 05:49 | <@froztbyte> | as to what you want to do, though |
| 05:49 | <@froztbyte> | no, not really |
| 05:49 | <@froztbyte> | you'll need to jack into whatever encryption application is relevant |
| 05:49 | <@Azash> | Hrm |
| 05:49 | <@froztbyte> | and attempt to steal the decrypted output |
| 05:49 | <@Azash> | Yeah I'm supposed to dev the encryption application itself |
| 05:49 | <@froztbyte> | my gut feeling here says you might be doing the wrong thing |
| 05:50 | <@Azash> | Oh? |
| 05:50 | <&jerith> | Azash: To clarify, do you want DropBox to see encrypted files and other apps to see plaintext? |
| 05:50 | <@Azash> | Yes |
| 05:50 | <@froztbyte> | well, coming to the part where you're trying to jack the output of the decryptor, I mean |
| 05:51 | <@Azash> | I'm implementing the encryptor/decryptor software, I don't need to jack the output from that |
| 05:51 | <@froztbyte> | it seems like a "want your cake and eat it" sort of problem, which I'd rather suggest splitting up |
| 05:51 | <&jerith> | Then I'm pretty sure you'll need to emulate a filesystem. |
| 05:51 | <@froztbyte> | yeah, something like that |
| 05:52 | <@Azash> | I'm not sure but I imagine I'd have to do, like, a folder of plaintext files |
| 05:52 | <@Azash> | And use inotify to encrypt and overwrite them in the cloud storage folder when changes happen |
| 05:52 | <&jerith> | Azash: That's not going to work. |
| 05:52 | <@Azash> | How come? |
| 05:52 | <@froztbyte> | you can't have them encrypted and not encrypted at once in the same folder, based on wherever they're going |
| 05:53 | <@Azash> | Yes, I know |
| 05:53 | <@froztbyte> | so what you'd want |
| 05:53 | <@Azash> | Hence why I used the terms "folder of plaintext files" and "cloud storage folder" |
| 05:53 | <&jerith> | Syning that stuff is likely to be hard. |
| 05:53 | <&jerith> | *Syncing |
| 05:53 | <&jerith> | How do you handle conflicts? |
| 05:53 | <@froztbyte> | is ~/Dropbox/volume; volume is then mounted somehow, and presents you ~/folderoffiles/ |
| 05:53 | <@Azash> | It is |
| 05:54 | <@froztbyte> | ~/folderoffiles == uncrypted, ~/Dropbox/volume == encrypted |
| 05:54 | <@Azash> | Yeah, that's what I was going for |
| 05:54 | <@Azash> | It feels a bit clunky but I imagine there's not really any more elegant alternative |
| 05:54 | <@froztbyte> | in which case, unless you actually need to write this stuff, I'd just use a truecrypt volume and go on with life |
| 05:55 | <@Azash> | I do |
| 05:56 | <@froztbyte> | time to learn fuse, I guess :) |
| 05:58 | <@Azash> | This is probably going to blow the doors off that 2cr limit but eh |
| 05:58 | <@Azash> | I wish I got this as a straight-up RA gig.. |
| 05:58 | <@froztbyte> | 2cr? RA? |
| 05:59 | <@Azash> | Credits; research assistant |
| 05:59 | <@froztbyte> | ah |
| 05:59 | <@froztbyte> | it sucks that you have to implement the actual crypto bit yourself |
| 05:59 | <@froztbyte> | there are so many better ways to do that :( |
| 05:59 | <@Azash> | It's not very advanced crypto really |
| 06:00 | <@froztbyte> | (I don't mean that offensively, btw. crypto's just one of those things that I believe is best done when you do it permanently, as a career or so) |
| 06:00 | <@Azash> | I'm sure you don't, and I'm aware |
| 06:00 | <@Azash> | I'm not implementing the crypto algorithms themselves, mind |
| 06:00 | <@froztbyte> | sure |
| 06:01 | <@froztbyte> | but I mean, truecrypt, or gpg of a tarfile, or or or |
| 06:01 | <@Azash> | My thoughts so far are to get a seed and salt, both 8-char base64 strings, run 2^20 rounds of SHA-512 PBKDF with them, and use the result as a secret key while giving the user the two strings for long-term backup |
| 06:01 | < Syk> | is this for a reason or just because you can |
| 06:01 | <@Azash> | Encryption of files would be using one half of that key for 256-bit AES CTR with the second half used to modify the counter variable |
| 06:02 | <@Azash> | Hopefully in a way that preserves CTR's random access support |
| 06:02 | < Syk> | since Truecrypt will implement anything a billion times better than you could individually |
| 06:02 | <@Azash> | Syk: Assigned as a PoC thing |
| 06:02 | <@Azash> | """PoC""" |
| 06:02 | <@froztbyte> | universities are strange. |
| 06:02 | < Syk> | well the proof of concept thing exists already and it's called truecrypt |
| 06:02 | <@Azash> | Hee |
| 06:02 | < Syk> | it already does block-level updating |
| 06:02 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: well, I wish you best of luck |
| 06:02 | < Syk> | so it's dbox friendlt iirc |
| 06:02 | < Syk> | friendly* |
| 06:02 | <@froztbyte> | since I expect you'll run into at least some measure of pain with this |
| 06:03 | <@Azash> | I probably will |
| 06:03 | | * Syk seconds froztbyte |
| 06:03 | <@Azash> | And I'll definitely consider truecrypt as well, same myself some headache |
| 06:03 | | * froztbyte needs to hit the shower (with a wrench) (not really) and then get to work |
| 06:03 | | * Syk needs to do some work today :( |
| 06:03 | | * Azash needs to meet the prof today and talk about this PoS, COUGH COUGH PoC |
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| 08:47 | < JustBob> | Hrm. |
| 08:47 | < JustBob> | Vorno. |
| 08:48 | < JustBob> | How would you phrase 'Take this function. Subtract this other function. Tell me where it deviates by greater than +/- 0.0001' |
| 08:48 | < JustBob> | In code, I mean. |
| 08:51 | < JustBob> | http://i.imgur.com/jGv8e5a.png <- Specifically, the red line is my baseline. I need to find where green and blue deviate from the red by > 0.0001 |
| 08:52 | < JustBob> | By interval, I mean. |
| 08:55 | <~Vornicus> | I'm not sur ehow I'd do it in matlab, cuz I don't know what iteration tools I get, but I'd... okay so here's the thing |
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| 09:12 | <~Vornicus> | Usually for this I want a function that takes functions as inputs. |
| 09:14 | < JustBob> | Hrm. |
| 09:14 | < JustBob> | I'm thinking about brute forcing it, to be honest. |
| 09:15 | < JustBob> | Taking the string, replacing everything that's not matching with 999, then just looking at the column # and going, "There and there." |
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| 09:16 | <~Vornicus> | http://pastebin.com/tny5k4zU |
| 09:19 | < JustBob> | that in matlab? Or generic code? |
| 09:19 | <~Vornicus> | Python, actually. |
| 09:20 | <~Vornicus> | I don't know if matlab lets you pass functions to functions, but other than that it should translate almost directly to matlab code. |
| 09:20 | < JustBob> | 'k |
| 09:20 | < JustBob> | and I think it can if you define them right |
| 09:21 | <~Vornicus> | (reference and approximation are your two function inputs; they technically don't care at all about the order) |
| 09:22 | <~Vornicus> | (the rest should be pretty self-explanatory) |
| 09:28 | <@Azash> | https://images.4chan.org/g/src/1363163333291.jpg |
| 09:28 | | * Azash hnnghs |
| 09:29 | | * TheWatcher eyes that, twitch |
| 09:42 | < JustBob> | Vorn - I wasn'ta ble to get that function to work decently fast. |
| 09:42 | < JustBob> | So I brute-forced it. |
| 09:42 | < JustBob> | You will cringe. :p |
| 09:42 | <~Vornicus> | Mine was pretty brute force in itself. |
| 09:43 | <~Vornicus> | No attempts to condense large swaths of error range into a single interval. |
| 09:44 | < JustBob> | In short, my hunt basically went, "Okay. Array y12 is abs(y1-y2)<=tolerance; everything outside tolerance = 0, everything in-tolerance = 1. Array x12 is the indice of every nonzero value in y12. Array x is every value associated with those indices." |
| 09:46 | <~Vornicus> | yeah that sounds sane. |
| 10:02 | < JustBob> | Oh, yay. |
| 10:02 | < JustBob> | Method of Frobenius. |
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| 10:08 | <~Vornicus> | I always found his name funny. |
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| 13:39 | <@Azash> | froztbyte jerith, just got back from the meeting |
| 13:39 | <@Azash> | Looks like double directory is the way |
| 13:39 | <@froztbyte> | fun |
| 13:39 | <@froztbyte> | well, I guess at least you have clarity now |
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| 16:59 | <&jerith> | http://xkcd.com/1185/ |
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| 22:25 | <@iospace> | and once again, i'm at an impasse with getting XPE to work on this board, time for home |
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| --- Log closed Thu Mar 14 00:00:49 2013 |