code logs -> 2013 -> Thu, 31 Jan 2013< code.20130130.log - code.20130201.log >
--- Log opened Thu Jan 31 00:00:25 2013
00:00 himi [fow035@D741F1.243F35.CADC30.81D435] has joined #code
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00:01
<~Vornicus>
recursion hasn't showed up yet either
00:03
< ErikMesoy>
Projec Euler's early problems mostly require iterators
00:03
< ErikMesoy>
"for x in..." and "for x less than..."
00:07
<~Vornicus>
I mean there are some of them I can do without loops
00:07
<~Vornicus>
#1, for instance.
00:08
<~Vornicus>
but doing so is a cool trick.
00:15
<~Vornicus>
so let's see. Right now we have "reading input", "turning strings into floats", "using str.format in simple situations", "creating a random integer", "using if"
00:25 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
00:30 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
00:31
<&ToxicFrog>
Hrm.
00:37
<&McMartin>
Ugh
00:38
<&McMartin>
My madness is being thwarted
00:38
<&McMartin>
How dare it question my genius
00:40
<@Reiv>
??
00:50
<&McMartin>
Stuff Not Working
00:57
< JustBob>
Set it on fire.
00:57 * McMartin is thinking more vivisection.
01:03
< JustBob>
That works too.
01:06 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
01:09 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
01:56
<@celticminstrel>
So, this thing is basically done, if I can drag myself away from tweaking it while I write up how things work.
02:00
<@celticminstrel>
Now I need to decide what to do with it. Should I put it on github so everyone can see all the stupid things I've done in it? :P
02:03 * Azash looks through his old macro folders, finds https://haeroe.net/reaction/computer_science.png
02:04
<&ToxicFrog>
upload all of the things to github, forever
02:04
<@celticminstrel>
No!
02:04
<@Azash>
ToxicFrog: Maybe I can rename that readme.md and put it in every repo
02:04
<@celticminstrel>
This browser-based rogue-like, sure. But everything, no.
02:05
<@Azash>
celticminstrel: Let me know when it's in a playable state
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02:06
<@celticminstrel>
I think it's playable now.
02:06
<@celticminstrel>
Unless there are nasty bugs that I've missed.
02:06
<@celticminstrel>
Of course, you can't actually play it until I put it somewhere.
02:09
<&ToxicFrog>
12222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222222qqqqqqqqqqqqq655
02:09
<&Derakon>
\o/
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02:10
<@Azash>
Cat-like typing detected, aroogah, arooogah
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02:58
<&McMartin>
Vivisection: SUCCESS
02:58
<&McMartin>
WHEN THE HISTORY OF MY GLORY IS WRITTEN, YOUR PATHETIC ACCESS RESTRICTIONS WILL BE ONLY A FOOTNOTE TO MY MAGNIFICENCE
03:10
<&Derakon>
But I'm Ultraviolet-level~!
03:15
<&McMartin>
I'm still not entirely clear how it managed to crash Spy++. :/
03:22
<@celticminstrel>
So that's... one in favour of github (though seemingly only on principle). One and a half, if you include me.
03:24
<@Azash>
Me too
03:24
<@Azash>
Which makes it 100%
03:25
<@Azash>
McMartin: Do you play SWTOR?
03:28
<&McMartin>
Nope
03:28
<@Azash>
03:58 <&McMartin> WHEN THE HISTORY OF MY GLORY IS WRITTEN, YOUR PATHETIC ACCESS RESTRICTIONS WILL BE ONLY A FOOTNOTE TO MY MAGNIFICENCE
03:28
<@Azash>
What is this a reference to?
03:28
<&McMartin>
System Shock 2, I believe.
03:28
<@Azash>
Ah, I see
03:29
<@Azash>
One storyline villain for the Sith warrior in SWTOR says something similar
03:29
<&McMartin>
Was this villain by any chance a power-mad god-complex AI?
03:29
<@Azash>
s/AI/Sith lord/
03:30
<@Azash>
Otherwise yes
03:30
<&McMartin>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SHODAN
03:31 * McMartin tsks as that article no longer has the OGG of the "Look at you, Hacker" speech.
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03:35
<@celticminstrel>
Heh.
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03:35
<&ToxicFrog>
Voice of the Resistance probably does somewhere.
03:35
<&ToxicFrog>
Azash: you should play System Shock.
03:35
<&ToxicFrog>
Just saying.
03:37
<@Azash>
I should play a lot of things :I
03:37
<@Azash>
I have this old pic as checklist
03:37
<@Azash>
https://haeroe.net/reaction/FUCKING_GAMES.jpg
03:38
<&ToxicFrog>
No Strike Force Centauri, list invalidated~
03:39
<&ToxicFrog>
That is actually a pretty nice checklist of good and/or significant games.
03:39
<&ToxicFrog>
That said, go play everything by Looking Glass.
03:41
<@Azash>
It's from when /v/ was pretty good
03:41
<@Azash>
I'll keep that in mind
03:41
<&McMartin>
Azash: I'd say to play World of Xeen instead of Isles of Terra, but~
03:42
<@Azash>
My current goal is to learn MAA properly in Chivalry, then learn EU3
03:42
<@Azash>
I might be able to take the next step in 2017 or so
03:42
<&ToxicFrog>
So play LGS games when you want a break from grand strategy games that take an eon to play~
03:46
<@Azash>
Sounds like a plan
03:53
<&ToxicFrog>
Hmm, I've played rather a lot of games on that list.
04:05
<@Reiv>
man, seeing it like that
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04:05
<@Reiv>
I played a lot of the early stuff
04:05
<@Reiv>
Then Total Annihilation showed up and I don't play goddamn /any/ of that till like, the 2000s
04:06
<@Reiv>
(Suprised WoW and EvE aren't on it, at least as historical footnotes)
04:07
<@Azash>
Same, but I guess personal taste applies
04:11
<&ToxicFrog>
I've played a lot of those, but very few of them when they actually came out.
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04:35
<&ToxicFrog>
I am in a maze of twisty little higher-order functions, all different.
04:50
<&Derakon>
> TAIL-RECURSE
05:09
<&ToxicFrog>
Random idea: a text adventure where you are exploring the structure of a program and really can be lost in a maze of higher-order functions, all differet.
05:09
<&ToxicFrog>
And > TAIL-RECURSE is a recognized verb.
05:09
<&Derakon>
So basically, Debugger: The IF.
05:09
<&ToxicFrog>
I haven't really given it any thought beyond that but I may want to visit that idea later.
05:10
<&Derakon>
Could be fun.
05:10
<&ToxicFrog>
Perhapy.
05:10
<&ToxicFrog>
Perhaps, even.
05:10
<&Derakon>
There'd be an Executor NPC which would occasionally pass through the function you're in and run it.
05:12
<&McMartin>
There is a sequence about this in Being Andrew Plotkin
05:12 * Reiv muses.
05:12
<@Reiv>
SHODAN should never have a SHODAN 3.
05:13
<@Reiv>
How terribly would it be ruined for there to be a remake of SHODAN 1 & 2?
05:13
<&ToxicFrog>
...you mean System Shock?
05:14
<~Vornicus>
I still want to see what the maps would look like if they redid Marathon on modern systems
05:14
<&Derakon>
Very straight~
05:16
<&ToxicFrog>
A remake of System Shock would actually be pretty boss. We understand UI design better now, we can put more detail in the levels, but it's advanced enough as is that the gameplay and level design would need little adjustment. It would be a graphics and controls overhaul.
05:16
<&Derakon>
So basically Biomod + New Vision in DX1~
05:16
<&ToxicFrog>
System Shock 2 I'd love to see done in the Dead Space engine, which did Horrifying Organic Things beautifully.
05:16
<&ToxicFrog>
Derakon: well, no, it would need an actually new engine
05:17
<@celticminstrel>
Gah, feature creep... :|
05:17
<&ToxicFrog>
That supports things like poly-based maps and animated 3d models
05:17
<&Derakon>
Oh, SS1 uses the billboard approach to enemies?
05:18
<~Vornicus>
SS1 a. billboards and b. doesn't restrict vertical viewing angle, so the billboards don't match the hit boxes relatively often.
05:18
<&ToxicFrog>
it was released in 1994 so, yeah, it kind of had to.
05:18
<&ToxicFrog>
It did have 3d model support, but those were mostly used for terrain, containers, and security cameras.
05:19
<~Vornicus>
DOOM and Marathon also billboard but both restrict vertical viewing angle, so it's considerably less of a problem.
05:19
<&ToxicFrog>
(and it didn't support animation beyond palette cycling of the textures and rotating the entire model)
05:19
<&ToxicFrog>
Doom and Marathon couldn't have unrestricted viewing angles because they were 2.5d engines.
05:20
<&ToxicFrog>
Anyways, yes, SS1 uses sprites for all enemies, weapons, projectiles, items, most clutter, grenades...
05:20
<~Vornicus>
Doom didn't let you look up/down at all.
05:20
<&Derakon>
As TF said, it wasn't true 3D.
05:21
<&ToxicFrog>
Derakon: well, you can fake it somewhat, as Marathon did
05:21
<~Vornicus>
Marathon used tilt-shift vertical look.
05:21
<&Derakon>
It only worked with specific viewing angles.
05:21
<&ToxicFrog>
But the further you look the worse the distortion gets.
05:21
<&ToxicFrog>
I think Marathon capped it at 30 degrees up or down?
05:22
<~Vornicus>
systemshock billboarded and iirc pegged the billboard at the bottom of the hitbox of the critter. This meant that to aim at it you had to actually aim at the feet, when looking down.
05:22
<&ToxicFrog>
Yes.
05:25
<&ToxicFrog>
Anyways. Point being, redesign the UI a bit, replace the sprites with 3d models, directly port the maps to a new engine, and kick up the texture resolution, and you're most of the way there.
05:26
<&ToxicFrog>
You would probably want to add more detail to the level geometry and do room-over-room natively rather than using floor models and suchlike, but you wouldn't need to completely rethink it.
05:29
<&ToxicFrog>
Honestly, I think the UI redesign would be the hardest part, since you're basically talking the set-union of SS2 and DX1 features there.
05:30
<&ToxicFrog>
You've got multiple configurable MFDs, an inventory containing items and software you may need to use, ten augs which can not only be toggled but configured and often have multiple operating modes, multiple weapons which are, again, configurable and have multiple fire modes and/or ammo types...
05:32
<~Vornicus>
The same is approximately true of Marathon, but sometimes I want to see what you could do with variable gravity and triggers and shit
05:32
<&ToxicFrog>
See, SS1 already used variable gravity and triggers and shit~
05:34
<&ToxicFrog>
(Marathon does have the advantage of having a much simpler UI~)
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06:30
<@sshine>
couldn't you have a reference-based type system like Java where references are not allowed to be null by default, but there is an option-type to allow for it?
06:31
<@sshine>
the intent should be to avoid null-pointer exceptions at runtime without restricting the language significantly.
06:32
<~Vornicus>
sshine: there's a "Maybe" type in haskell
06:32
<~Vornicus>
I think it's called that anyway
06:33
<@sshine>
Vornicus, yes, that's the type I am thinking of. Standard ML calls it "optioN"
06:33
<@sshine>
option*
06:34
<@sshine>
I just thought: why not make it a type-error when people might de-reference a null-pointer, and why not make it syntactically desirable to have to check if possible null-pointers are actual null-pointers?
06:36
<@sshine>
a lot of the time when you have a reference to something, you really just want to assume it isn't a null-reference. and sometimes, like with lazy or recursive data structures, you really want to be able to have null-references, but you probably should perform a check.
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06:38
<@sshine>
it seems that someone did something like this using a Maybe class... http://blog.tmorris.net/posts/maybe-in-java/
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14:42
<@celticminstrel>
Okay, today I will version-control this thing, but first I need a name for it...
14:44
< Syka>
explosive-pancakes
14:44
<@iospace>
what thing?
14:45
<@celticminstrel>
This rogue-like.
14:46
<@Azash>
I agree with Syka
14:50
<@iospace>
explosive-pancakes :3
15:07
<&ToxicFrog>
It should have a name, but why do you need that to version-control it?
15:09
< ErikMesoy>
explosive-dungeons
15:09
< ErikMesoy>
dungeon-pancakes
15:10
<@celticminstrel>
Actually, I misspoke a little. I don't need a name to version-control it; I need a name to put it on github.
15:11
<@TheWatcher>
celticminstrel: annamarie~
15:12
< ErikMesoy>
From Sunset To Midnight
15:12
<@celticminstrel>
TheWatcher: Is there some explanation behind that?
15:12
<@celticminstrel>
Because it seems really random.
15:12
< ErikMesoy>
The Last Will and Testament of Pope Claudius
15:12
< ErikMesoy>
celticminstrel: I think they are all random
15:13
<@TheWatcher>
celticminstrel: The 'real' name of Rogue.
15:13
<@TheWatcher>
(X-Men reference)
15:13
<@froztbyte>
spider pancake
15:14
<@froztbyte>
there are your next ~10 project names sorted
15:15
<@celticminstrel>
True, ErikMesoy, but that one seemed more random than the rest.
15:16
<@TheWatcher>
(Or you could call it 'solo' )
15:16
<@celticminstrel>
Why shiftyeyes?
15:17
< ErikMesoy>
Return of the Generic Noun
15:17
< ErikMesoy>
(alternatively, Attack of the Generic Noun)
15:17
<@TheWatcher>
cm: it's just a suggestion with several levels of meaning, is all.
15:25 * celticminstrel comes up with "Escape from _____" and tries making up a randomish word to fill the blank... Landre(a)d?
15:26
<@celticminstrel>
Not sure if I like that.
15:32
<@TheWatcher>
Escape from the Shadow of the Legacy of the Curse of Thingummybob!
15:33
<@celticminstrel>
Heh.
15:46
<@froztbyte>
oh man
15:46
<@froztbyte>
Syka++
15:47
< Syka>
wut
15:49
<@froztbyte>
the post
15:49
<@froztbyte>
specifically <blink>
15:49 * froztbyte can link here for the benefit of other people
15:49
< Syka>
https://thoughtstreams.io/hawkowl/why-html-sucks-and-theres-nothing-you-or-anyon e-el/
15:49
< Syka>
this thing
15:50
<@froztbyte>
more particularly, '99~'08 according to Syka: https://thoughtstreams.io/hawkowl/why-html-sucks-and-theres-nothing-you-or-anyon e-el/#card-1146
15:50
< Syka>
froztbyte: i added two more cards
15:51
<@celticminstrel>
Maybe Maldread would be better...
15:52
<@froztbyte>
Syka: hmm
15:52
<@froztbyte>
that should have the ability to pitch up at any time
15:52 * froztbyte sends a tweet
15:52
< Syka>
pitch up?
15:52 * TheWatcher eyes that
15:53
<@froztbyte>
Syka: like, ajax-style magic hax
15:53
<@froztbyte>
cards just render once you publish them
15:53
< Syka>
ahh
15:53
< Syka>
hmm yeah it should
15:53
< Syka>
i should probably get a twitter
15:53
< Syka>
all the cool kids have a twitter
15:53
<@froztbyte>
https://twitter.com/froztbyte/status/297009618218012672
15:54
<@TheWatcher>
Really, browsers simply can't display a page long enough to enumerate all the ways in which html/css/http and especially html5 suck >.>
15:54
<@celticminstrel>
I keep thinking about getting Twitter but never manage to talk myself into it.
15:55
< Syka>
heh
15:56
<@TheWatcher>
I have a twitter account! It even has tweets in it... the ones I made while testing the twitter posting code for a work project >.>
15:56 * Kaura eyes up
15:56 * Kaura eyes TW
15:57
< Kaura>
...liiink?
15:57
<@celticminstrel>
Orrr I could combine the two to get Malandread, which somehow sounds even better.
15:57
<@celticminstrel>
So yay, I have a name somehow.
15:57
<@TheWatcher>
Kaura: what, to my twitter?
15:58
< Kaura>
Yes. :D
15:59
< Kaura>
Oh, I am reminded. Need py3.3 on this computer too.
15:59 * froztbyte spots a wild Kaura
15:59 * TheWatcher eyes Kaura
15:59
<@froztbyte>
Kaura: oh you poor soul
15:59
<@froztbyte>
how'd that happen?
15:59
< Kaura>
Vorn dragged me back in. >_>
16:00
<@froztbyte>
to py3.3?
16:00
< Kaura>
As it turns out, I haven't totally forgotten everything! Though I was tripped up when trying to run a simple Hello World, given the changes between ver 2 and 3.
16:00
<@froztbyte>
don't bother with 3 :(
16:00
<@TheWatcher>
Whyfor use 4?
16:00
<@TheWatcher>
*3
16:00
<@froztbyte>
py3 doesn't exist, anyway!~
16:00
<@TheWatcher>
Indeed.
16:01
< Kaura>
's it that bad? I wasn't aware.
16:01
<@froztbyte>
there are...some issues
16:01
<@froztbyte>
dumb decisions and whatnot
16:01
<@froztbyte>
but that aside
16:01
<@froztbyte>
pretty much all the code that matters anywhere is still py2
16:01
<@froztbyte>
so if you're going to use py3 as a newbie, you're going right out for pain
16:02
<@froztbyte>
and the differences from py2 to py3 are of non-trivial effect in many of their usecases
16:02
< Kaura>
Hrn. Well. I suppose I might as well go back to ver 2 then.
16:02
<@TheWatcher>
Would be wise.
16:03
<@froztbyte>
glyph wrote a decent list of things connected with the recent SB3 beta
16:03
<@froztbyte>
sec
16:03
<@froztbyte>
https://twitter.com/glyph/status/296840803798642688
16:09 Syka is now known as syksleep
16:22 Thalass is now known as Thalasleep
16:24
<@celticminstrel>
I just made an sftp batch script to upload this. :D http://celmin.pwcsite.com/malandread/
16:25
<@celticminstrel>
Okay, now I need to do that homework that's due today. And probably eat something, too.
16:49 ErikMesoy [Erik@A08927.B4421D.FE7332.A86588] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving.]
16:55
<@celticminstrel>
Oh, it's also on github: https://github.com/CelticMinstrel/malandread
17:21 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
17:25 ErikMesoy [Erik@Nightstar-be32adc8.80-203-17.nextgentel.com] has joined #code
18:16 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code
18:16 mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ
18:25 * Derakon pokes at optimizing the linearizator.
18:26
<&Derakon>
...I love my job, being able to un-ironically say things like that.
18:26
<&Derakon>
(Though it should probably be "linearizer", but screw that~)
18:50
<@celticminstrel>
Argh, I can't seem to figure out how to get Firefox to use an XSL stylesheet...
18:52
<@celticminstrel>
Everything I find says the issue is usually either an incorrect xmlnd:xsl, or an incorrect mime-type.
18:52
<@celticminstrel>
^xmlns
18:53
<@celticminstrel>
But I have the correct xmlns:xsl, and surely mime-type is irrelevant for local files (ie file:// urls).
18:57
<@celticminstrel>
Anyone have any other ideas?
19:33
<@celticminstrel>
Firefox seems ignore it and just show the textual data from the file, which is a bit odd because when the stylesheet declaration is removed it shows a document tree.
19:33
<@celticminstrel>
Chrome ignores it and shows a document tree.
19:33
<@celticminstrel>
So does Safari.
19:35
<@celticminstrel>
Ooh, Opera shows an error message.
19:36 RichyB [richardb@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code
19:36
<@celticminstrel>
I was missing a quote. Now Opera and Safari do the same as Firefox, and Chrome just shows a blank page.
19:42
<@celticminstrel>
Now I've changed something else and Safari says "error on line 3 at column 1: Document is empty" while Opera says "Error: invalid XML output: unexpected text (non-whitespace text outside root element)", neither of which seem to make sense in context.
19:43
<@celticminstrel>
Safari's doesn't even give enough info to know what it's talking about. Is it the XML file? The XSL stylesheet? Something else?
19:54
<@celticminstrel>
Why won't this work! :(
19:55
<@celticminstrel>
Hm. Opera works if I remove the xsl: prefix.
19:55
<@celticminstrel>
This makes Chrome and Safari just show a blank page, and Firefox gives a generic error.
19:57
<@celticminstrel>
That makes me thing Opera doesn't support namespaces properly...
19:57
<@celticminstrel>
^think
20:06 * Derakon ponders.
20:06
<&Derakon>
Say I have a sequence of numbers, e.g. 0, 5, 10, 11, 12, 13, 15, 20.
20:07
<&Derakon>
I want to make the spacing between them even, e.g. 0, 2.5, 5, 7.5, 10, 12.5, 15, 17.5.
20:07
<&Derakon>
Then use them to generate numbers in the same region (i.e. any floating-point number in 0-20).
20:08
<&Derakon>
And then reverse the process on those numbers so that e.g. 2.5 maps to 5, 5 maps to 10, 7.5 to 11, etc.
20:11 ReivDriod [Reiver@Nightstar-92fce6db.vf.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
20:14 Kaura [thoughtscre@Nightstar-1e7be2ad.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
20:16
<&Derakon>
I guess the way to look at it is that I have a function that maps index to number: (0, 0), (1, 5), (2, 10), (3, 11), etc. Do a linear fit on that function. Yeah, that should work.
20:18 Kaura [thoughtscre@Nightstar-15f44060.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #code
20:28
<&Derakon>
...dur, I can just work with the index directly.
20:33
<@celticminstrel>
Aha, I might have figured it out. I didn't realize I needed everything to be inside an xsl:template tag.
20:33
<&McMartin>
10:24 <&Derakon> (Though it should probably be "linearizer", but screw that~)
20:33
<&McMartin>
TROGDOR THE CONFIGURATOR
20:34 * McMartin is in fact still bitter that "configurator" appears to be standard instead of "configurer"
20:34
<&McMartin>
CONFIGURATE
20:34
<&McMartin>
CONFIGURATE
20:34
<@celticminstrel>
I don't think I've ever used either one...
20:35
<&McMartin>
Ha ha ha
20:35
<&McMartin>
[markov-chains] McMartin says (to Markov), "Trogdor the Configurator"
20:35
<&McMartin>
[markov-chains] Markov says (to McMartin), "Trogdor nutrition Science techniques end up treating indigestible cellulose and sugar"
20:35
<&McMartin>
[markov-chains] McMartin says (to Markov), "Burninating the calories"
20:35
<&McMartin>
[markov-chains] Markov says (to McMartin), "A planet is a heavenly body which said "calories per serving: 140 (in california: 170)""
20:36
<&McMartin>
Markov is not a purely markovian chatbot but he is suitably surreal
20:36
<&McMartin>
Also, TROGDOR NUTRITION SCIENCE TECHNIQUES
20:38 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
21:08
<@celticminstrel>
I think github broke something, because on the repository front page it says the commit has no author information, but when you click on it it clearly says the author is me.
21:17
<@Azash>
McMartin: Aw man, I prefer configurizer
21:29 Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code
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22:33 Derakon_ [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code
22:34
<@celticminstrel>
XML Schemas are absolutely insane.
22:35 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
22:36 Derakon[AFK] [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
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22:38 ErikMesoy is now known as ErikMesoy|sleep
23:20 VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code
23:40 Thalasleep is now known as Thalass
23:47 mac [mac@Nightstar-fe8a1f12.il.comcast.net] has joined #code
23:54
<@RobinStamer>
celticminstrel: http://github-status.com/ doesn't look like there were issues
23:55
<@Namegduf>
There seems to be some broken language detection.
23:56
<@RobinStamer>
reported+*
23:57 Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving]
--- Log closed Fri Feb 01 00:00:40 2013
code logs -> 2013 -> Thu, 31 Jan 2013< code.20130130.log - code.20130201.log >

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