| --- Log opened Tue Jan 15 00:00:02 2013 |
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| 00:35 | <@gnolam> | ... and I read that as "Rn boxes". And wondered why you'd /intentionally/ put radon into your building.~ |
| 00:38 | < syksleep> | gives a nice healthy glow |
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| 00:43 | <~Vornicus> | Okay now I'm impressed. |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | I ran my klotski solver again for Impassable Gate 3 today and went out, and when I came back the computer had rebooted. |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | -_- |
| 00:44 | <~Vornicus> | So, yes. |
| 00:45 | <~Vornicus> | it appears I need 1. a smaller representation of the current state et al, and 2. Moar Beef |
| 00:45 | < RichyB> | You *are* running it with PyPy, right? Not CPython? |
| 00:45 | <~Vornicus> | Actually I discovered that pypy takes at least 10 times as much time, at least in the early stages, and twice as much ram. |
| 00:46 | <~Vornicus> | So, no1 |
| 00:46 | < RichyB> | Hrmn. |
| 00:46 | < syksleep> | ask Watson |
| 00:46 | < RichyB> | Please would you be so kind as to either submit a copy of your program to the PyPy project, or give me a copy so that I can? |
| 00:46 | <~Vornicus> | I should update pypy first to make sure. |
| 00:47 | <~Vornicus> | but for now i'm going to assume that my program did solve it, and look up the answer on the internet~ |
| 00:47 | < RichyB> | The PyPy devs actually treat "this program runs slower under pypy than cpython" as a bug, almost regardless of what the program is. |
| 00:47 | < syksleep> | i would have a look at the pypy source |
| 00:47 | < syksleep> | but i am afraid I will be very scared |
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| 00:50 | < syksleep> | the nyt has a paywall now? |
| 00:50 | < syksleep> | lol tiem to ignore it |
| 00:50 | <~Vornicus> | syksleep: a nigh-trivially-circumvented one. |
| 00:50 | < mac> | Any one want a free PDF of an XNA book ? |
| 00:50 | <&McMartin> | What version? |
| 00:50 | < mac> | Learning XNA 4.0 |
| 00:51 | < mac> | thats the title |
| 00:51 | < mac> | O'reilly books |
| 00:51 | <&McMartin> | Sure, I guess, if nobody else does. |
| 00:51 | < syksleep> | XNA looked interesting |
| 00:51 | < syksleep> | but it's windows and xbox only, which makes it less than useless to me :( |
| 00:52 | < mac> | http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=978-1-449-39462-2&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CD AQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresource.openxlive.net%2Fresource%2FDownload%2Fbfc142b0- aa20-4348-b010-7e649751a839&ei=Oaj0UKivDIrtqwGgkYCoCA&usg=AFQjCNEom7OXhyTfbw-ceq cr6nr6QlZ7mQ&sig2=q3_XH-R7e2tzwecgKOfqmQ |
| 00:54 | < mac> | Im amazed i found it on the internet lol, i just googled the isbn and the first result was a pdf so i took a look and low and behold, the book that i already own... |
| 00:55 | <~Vornicus> | ...other thing I should do is add a diagnostic that fires when I finish one move level. |
| 00:56 | <~Vornicus> | also dename the blocks so it keeps 1/12 as many states around for different colorings of otherwise-identical blocks. |
| 00:58 | <&McMartin> | Yes, denaming the blocks is kind of critical |
| 00:59 | <&Derakon> | I find it kind of weird that you're writing a program to solve a puzzle game that's nominally meant to be solved "unassisted", but who am I to say what you do with your time~ |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | it's my army of robots. |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | it's not cheating if I give it all the orders~ |
| 01:00 | <~Vornicus> | McM: what I kind of wish is if I could get it to name the blocks again when it's done. |
| 01:06 | | * Vornicus ...realizes he could probably pull that off. |
| 01:08 | <&Derakon> | Just rerun the solution with names attached. |
| 01:08 | <~Vornicus> | yeah |
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| 07:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:33 | < mac> | what are the odds a Facebook page would display the wrong date for Creation? I'm going to have to guess not very good. |
| 08:06 | <@TheWatcher> | You have entirely more faith in Facebook's pile of satanic anal encrustation software that I do ¬¬ |
| 08:08 | < mac> | well i have more faith in their hardware being able to not flip a bit. |
| 08:08 | < mac> | i would assume the php or what ever they use will store the date correctly |
| 08:08 | < mac> | there are built in functions that will get generate a date value just fine. |
| 08:10 | <@froztbyte> | lulz |
| 08:10 | <@froztbyte> | so optimistic |
| 08:11 | <@froztbyte> | a common problem I see in .za (and perhaps because I use it in a different language) is that event and reminder times break |
| 08:11 | <@froztbyte> | they render perfectly fine as "06h00 on sunday", but the actual notifications and such are generated in UTC-9 time |
| 08:12 | <@froztbyte> | then there's the eventual consistency thing too, and possibly dependencies on how they actually decide which time is used for what |
| 08:12 | < mac> | humm |
| 08:13 | < mac> | What are the odds that google would generate the wrong date? |
| 08:15 | <@froztbyte> | google? probably a bit less |
| 08:16 | <@froztbyte> | they did that whole big "this is why good time is important to servers" thing some months ago |
| 08:16 | < mac> | wow. |
| 08:16 | < mac> | what about the way back when machine ? |
| 08:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 08:18 | <@froztbyte> | hmm, probably pretty good too |
| 08:18 | <@froztbyte> | trying to find the google article now |
| 08:21 | <@froztbyte> | muh, can't find it |
| 08:21 | <@froztbyte> | :/ |
| 08:24 | < mac> | :/ |
| 08:24 | < mac> | froztbyte would you like a book on c# |
| 08:25 | < mac> | i found a pdf of a book i own on the internet earlier today? I downloaded it and it is in-fact a complete copy of the book. |
| 08:25 | < mac> | It's about XNA 4.0 and C# |
| 08:25 | < mac> | if you're interested ill repost the link to the pdf. |
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| 13:11 | <@froztbyte> | <@gamajun> "Your password needs to contain a capital letter, a number, an emoji, and a plot containing a protagonist and a twisted ending." |
| 13:12 | <@TheWatcher> | snerk |
| 13:48 | <@Alek> | ? |
| 13:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:30 | | * Pandemic sets about emplimenting such a password policey |
| 14:33 | | * Azash uses 2^20 rounds of pbkdf, lets users do whatever they want |
| 14:39 | <@gnolam> | <mac> what are the odds a Facebook page would display the wrong date for Creation? I'm going to have to guess not very good. |
| 14:39 | <@gnolam> | "How dare they say the Earth is 4.5 billion years old! Everyone knows it's just 6000."? |
| 14:44 | <@Pandemic> | No |
| 14:45 | <@Pandemic> | idiots beleave it is 6,000 years old |
| 14:45 | <@Pandemic> | in reality it is 4.5 billion |
| 14:45 | <@Pandemic> | their idiocey has no bearing on reality |
| 14:45 | <@Pandemic> | :-P |
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| 15:24 | <@RobinStamer> | Considering all the freakishly long life-spans of people in the Bible, one has to wonder how they can justify only 2000 years BCE. |
| 15:25 | | syk_out is now known as Syk |
| 15:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | RobinStamer: 4000. |
| 15:26 | <@RobinStamer> | Err yeah |
| 15:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | And IIRC, those lifespans are in fact the basis for the calculation that yields 6000 years or so. |
| 15:31 | <@Pandemic> | applying logic to the illogical is illogical |
| 15:31 | <@Pandemic> | :-P |
| 15:32 | <@Pandemic> | also, one can not reason with the unreasonable |
| 15:33 | < ErikMesoy> | RobinStamer: Because the calculation is not based on the lifespans. |
| 15:35 | < ErikMesoy> | The alleged record keeper is described: "And Methuselah lived 187 years and fathered Lamech. And after he fathered Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years. And he fathered sons and daughters. And all the days of Methuselah were 969 years. And he died." The calculation is based on adding up 187 et al, not 969. |
| 15:41 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: rofl |
| 15:48 | | * Pandemic still calls the young earthers idiots and reject out right their opinions |
| 16:00 | <@gnolam> | Well, because they are. |
| 16:00 | <@gnolam> | On a more serious note though: |
| 16:00 | <@gnolam> | <mac> What are the odds that google would generate the wrong date? |
| 16:00 | <@gnolam> | Very, very high, given that they don't even let you set a civilized date format in Gmail anymore. :P |
| 16:01 | <@gnolam> | Seriously. They had the functionality, albeit hidden away for some insane reason, and then /removed it/. |
| 16:01 | < Syk> | wut |
| 16:02 | < Syk> | define civilised |
| 16:02 | < Syk> | because my emails show up as '14 Jan' |
| 16:02 | < Syk> | or '10/12/2012' |
| 16:02 | < Syk> | which is correct |
| 16:02 | <@gnolam> | ISO 8601. |
| 16:03 | < Syk> | the words 'civilised' and any mention of an ISO standard do not belong together' |
| 16:03 | <@gnolam> | With date and time, they do. |
| 16:03 | <@RobinStamer> | ^ |
| 16:03 | < Syk> | unless 'civilised' means 'designed by committee' |
| 16:03 | <@gnolam> | ISO 8601 is the One True Date Format. |
| 16:03 | <@RobinStamer> | Uhh, yeah |
| 16:03 | <@RobinStamer> | YYYY-MM-DD is the /sanest/ date format. |
| 16:04 | <@RobinStamer> | It's both human and machine readable and it sorts with string sorts. |
| 16:04 | <@gnolam> | And it's also unambiguous. |
| 16:05 | <@RobinStamer> | Until some twat starts using YYYY-DD-MM for whatever reason twats are twats for. |
| 16:05 | < Syk> | well if it wasn't for the fucking Americans we'd not have ambiguious dates |
| 16:05 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: we had this discussion with Syk elsewhere the other day |
| 16:05 | <@froztbyte> | gnolam: it boiled down to "don't worry, Syk's australian" ;D |
| 16:05 | <@Azash> | I've had several ambiguous dates, Syk, but usually being forthcoming about your intentions helps |
| 16:05 | <@froztbyte> | but yeah, the americans do cause a bunch of shit too |
| 16:05 | < Syk> | did this end up in 'syka's a luddite' or 'syka's an idiot' |
| 16:05 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: lulz |
| 16:06 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: reminds me of a quote..lemme find it |
| 16:06 | < Syk> | Azash: well americans invented speed dating didnt they |
| 16:06 | < Syk> | so theyre to blame |
| 16:06 | <@froztbyte> | aside, https://twitter.com/RobertFischer/status/291180473567281152 && https://twitter.com/mshiltonj/status/291182823514193920 |
| 16:06 | <@froztbyte> | Azash: http://qdb.slipgate.za.net/FlyingCircus/219 |
| 16:06 | <@RobinStamer> | Wow, the author of this lib is a fucking genius. "Let's make an async lib on an async platform that communicates via /return/ value." Thanks for making a useless lib. |
| 16:06 | < Syk> | but i hate it how the country with the most technological... stuff, is also the one to use the worst measurement and date systems |
| 16:07 | <@Azash> | froztbyte: Pfft |
| 16:07 | < Syk> | metric is a godsend to everyone, everywhere |
| 16:08 | < Syk> | but then there's americans that think imperial is better, because fractions are better than decimals |
| 16:08 | < Syk> | i had someone tell me that imperial fractions are simpler than metric decimals |
| 16:08 | <@RobinStamer> | Yeah |
| 16:08 | <@Azash> | Fractions incur no loss of precision |
| 16:08 | <@gnolam> | The country with the most technological stuff would be "Japan". |
| 16:08 | < Syk> | Azash: you can also use fractions in metric |
| 16:09 | < Syk> | except, generally speaking, most things will not lose precision in decimals |
| 16:10 | <@Azash> | Yeah I never got that tbh |
| 16:10 | <@Azash> | Or maybe it's a physics thing |
| 16:10 | < Syk> | measuring a washing machine, it'll be 80.5cm |
| 16:10 | < Syk> | oh god physics in Imperial |
| 16:10 | < Syk> | I am fucking lucky I live in a civilised country, because physics in America is hell |
| 16:11 | < Syk> | m/s to km/h is / 1000 * 60 * 60 |
| 16:11 | < Syk> | or * 3.6 i think it ends up being |
| 16:11 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: your statement is meaningless; decimals are just fractions in the numeric base. |
| 16:11 | <@Azash> | ToxicFrog: Like I said, I never got it |
| 16:12 | <@Azash> | In retrospect I think it was because the guy also taught physics and that physics had a certain implicit rounding in decimal values |
| 16:12 | < Syk> | lots of things in physics 'just fit' in metric |
| 16:12 | | * gnolam hugs SI. |
| 16:12 | < Syk> | like with anything to do with water |
| 16:12 | < Syk> | 1g of water = 1cm^3 |
| 16:13 | < Syk> | the speed of light is a bit stranger |
| 16:13 | < Syk> | most people round it to 300 x 10^6 i think |
| 16:13 | < Syk> | gravity is almost exactly 9.8ms^2 though, i think |
| 16:13 | < Syk> | although even in Imperial that would be strictly speaking wrong, as that's Newtonian rather than Einstenian gravity |
| 16:14 | <@gnolam> | It varies. |
| 16:14 | < Syk> | when you get really big or really small, Newton breaks down like an emo child when Linkin Park cancels a show |
| 16:14 | <@gnolam> | Not really. |
| 16:16 | < Syk> | planet or atomic level, newtonian physics doesnt work |
| 16:16 | < Syk> | it sums down to 'everything taught in HS physics is a lie, but it's a lie that makes stepping up to the truth much easier' |
| 16:16 | < Syk> | then it turns out that's technically a lie too |
| 16:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | Unless you need GPS precision, newtonian physics work fine at planetary scale |
| 16:16 | <@gnolam> | As an example, alpha radiation actually has two components: the actual He nucleus, and a recoil nucleus. |
| 16:16 | <@gnolam> | Conservation of momentum still holds. |
| 16:16 | < Syk> | and then quantum physics walks in and just shits up the place |
| 16:17 | < Syk> | gnolam: i mean, newtonian gravity, rather |
| 16:17 | < Syk> | ToxicFrog: there's still a difference a few decimal places out |
| 16:17 | < Syk> | which can be a significant difference at planetary scale |
| 16:18 | < Syk> | and then theres also shit like the sun changing the path of asteroids and stuff |
| 16:18 | < Syk> | which is just like 'wat' |
| 16:20 | <@gnolam> | Newton's law of gravitation sufficed for all planets except Mercury. |
| 16:27 | | Syk is now known as syksleep |
| 16:30 | < syksleep> | well i am gravitating towards sleep |
| 16:31 | | * syksleep goes out like a light |
| 16:39 | <@Alek> | the speed of light is a funky thing! |
| 16:39 | | * Azash hears a bass guitar |
| 16:41 | <@Alek> | I recall reading last month(iirc) that they'd measured it and set the c constant in m/s. then later they re-measured it and it was different from the c constant, so they CHANGED THE METER to keep the c constant constant. XD |
| 16:42 | <@Alek> | in fact, tied the meter as a variable of the c constant. |
| 16:44 | <@gnolam> | That's how SI works. |
| 16:45 | < RichyB> | What's tied to what varies as new measurements become available. |
| 16:46 | < RichyB> | The meter is tied to the value of c because the most precisely-established of the fundamental SI units is time, and you can establish distance with similar accuracy if you assume that c's constant. |
| 16:48 | <@gnolam> | You start out with a system of consistent units. Then you find a way to tie those units to something directly measurable instead of a standard prototype (which leads to a drift in accuracy as people make copies of copies or the prototype degrades). |
| 16:48 | <@gnolam> | For SI, all base units except the kilogram have a physical definition. |
| 16:49 | <@gnolam> | All other units are then defined in terms of base units. |
| 16:54 | < RichyB> | I thought that the Kelvin had a similar issue to the kilogram? Might be totally off-base on that one. |
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| 17:07 | <@gnolam> | The kelvin is defined by the triple point of water. |
| 17:07 | <@gnolam> | (And absolute zero, but that goes without mentioning.~) |
| 17:11 | < Attilla> | so in reality there is no triple point of water? :V |
| 17:11 | <@gnolam> | ? |
| 17:12 | < Attilla> | you can't reach absolute zero~ |
| 17:12 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | OBJECTION! |
| 17:12 | < Attilla> | because of quantum and thermodynamic reasons, although i have heard of stuff about negative temperature |
| 17:12 | < Attilla> | which isn't the same as reaching zero |
| 17:12 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | Well, true |
| 17:12 | <@gnolam> | The triple point of water isn't absolute zero. It's 273.16 kelvin. |
| 17:12 | < Attilla> | gnolam ohhh |
| 17:13 | < Attilla> | it's more bypassing zero than reaching it, to get to negative |
| 17:14 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, "negative temperatures" aren't actually "below" absolute zero. It would be less incorrect (but still wrong) to say that it wraps around to infinity. |
| 17:14 | <@gnolam> | Eh. It's more an artifact of notation than anything else. |
| 17:15 | <@gnolam> | It's like when you use e.g. negative time intervals. |
| 17:17 | <@gnolam> | Hmm. What is the low temperature record these days? |
| 17:17 | <@Alek> | I'm sorry, I was just under the impression the meter was a better choice as a constant than a variable, given that we can actually, oh, see it. and what's our reasoning for c being constant when scientists had measured different values for c using the same values for distance and time? |
| 17:17 | <&ToxicFrog> | AIUI, the formal definition of temperature is basically a measure of how distributed among entropy states the matter is, which usually coincides with the average energy level of the matter but breaks down under certain conditions. |
| 17:17 | < RichyB> | Yeup, it's about information content. |
| 17:17 | <@gnolam> | Alek: c is the speed of light in a vacuum, and it is to the best of our knowledge absolutely constant. |
| 17:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | In particular, at infinite temperature you have an even distribution across all states, and at negative temperatures you have more particles in higher states than lower ones (which is "normally" impossible) |
| 17:18 | <&ToxicFrog> | (this came up in a recent discussion of http://www.nature.com/news/quantum-gas-goes-below-absolute-zero-1.12146 ) |
| 17:18 | | * Alek shrugs. still thinks it's questionable that they'd gotten different results on it using the same units. |
| 17:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Alek: see what? The meter is defined in terms of physical constants, it's an arbitrary unit of distance. |
| 17:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | For a while it was defined as N wavelengths of a certain spectral line of a certain element. |
| 17:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | At the moment I think it's defined as the distance light travels in a vacuum in (1/c) of a second, with the second defined in terms of some other physical constant. |
| 17:21 | <@Alek> | I'd prefer it based on the wavelengths, myself. and the second used to be based on the half-life of the cesium atom? |
| 17:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | Scientists get different measures for c because, as our methodologies, equipment, and knowledge improve, we can make more accurate and precise measurements. The underlying constant isn't changing. |
| 17:21 | <@Alek> | but the second also was redefined recently, I think. |
| 17:22 | <@Alek> | wasn't the meter originally defined as 1/10000 of the distance from pole to equator? or so? |
| 17:22 | <&ToxicFrog> | I think the second is currently defined as N cycles of the radiation emitted by a certain state transition of a certain isotope of cesium. |
| 17:26 | <@Alek> | er. my bad. 1/10,000,000 |
| 17:26 | <@Alek> | it used to be, yes. |
| 17:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | AFAIK it is still. |
| 17:36 | <@Alek> | er no. not in a long time. |
| 17:36 | <@Alek> | close, though. |
| 17:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 17:37 | <&ToxicFrog> | Are you talking about the meter or the second? |
| 17:37 | <@Alek> | meter. |
| 17:37 | <@Alek> | XD |
| 17:37 | <@Alek> | the second is: the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the caesium 133 atom. |
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| 19:09 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:28 | <@Rhamphoryncus> | Negative temperature is basically like Newton's gravity vs Einsteins gravity. The second is a very slight refinement, but in the process it exposes new mechanics, new ways to define what gravity is, and as a result there's corner cases that would be nonsensical under the original simpler model |
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| 19:37 | <@Azash> | 20:30 < x> some dick at work just got a Zbot/Zeus virus |
| 19:37 | <@Azash> | 20:30 < x> and got our Exchange server on a black list |
| 19:37 | <@Azash> | 20:31 < x> 90% of or clients email server are blocking us |
| 19:39 | <~Vornicus> | faaiilbooaat |
| 19:39 | <@Namegduf> | Seems unlikely they'd be blacklisted if they dealt with it in a timely fashion. |
| 19:39 | <~Vornicus> | actually no, that is in fact a Shipment Of Fail |
| 19:39 | <@Namegduf> | If they didn't, then they're the people Ruining It For Everyone and it's good that they got a sharp lesson in good Internet manners. |
| 19:41 | | * Pandemic agrees |
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| 20:06 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 20:11 | | * TheWatcher readsup, notes that while the admins of that mail system probably are somewhat to blame, the entire blacklist system is a complete clusterfuck that makes the mafia look honest and reasonable, so he tends not to judge people that end up on them harshly |
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| 20:32 | <@RobinStamer> | IMO the blacklist system is just a symptom of the disease. |
| 20:38 | < Xires> | should just rewrite the whole mailsystem..all the protocols..SMTP is not very 21-century friendly |
| 20:40 | < Xires> | and the blacklist system is reminiscent of the US's search for communists and the Salem witch trials |
| 20:40 | <&McMartin> | The Salem witch trials were more about cynical power grabs and honor killings |
| 20:41 | <@TheWatcher> | Email hates the living ¬¬ |
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| 20:46 | <@RobinStamer> | SMTP is literally impossible to implement fully |
| 20:46 | < Attilla> | what's the blacklist system |
| 20:46 | < Attilla> | ? |
| 20:49 | <@RobinStamer> | It's basically a public DB that lists "known bad" email servers. |
| 20:49 | <@RobinStamer> | So anyone using the DB will just ignore the entire list. |
| 20:50 | <@RobinStamer> | With IP reuse it's also possible to get an IP that is on the list. |
| 20:50 | <@TheWatcher> | Except that you have to add in the fact that most of said lists are maintained by rabid vigilantes, bullies, scammers, and general all-round collosal dicks |
| 20:50 | < Attilla> | that does sound pretty severe |
| 20:51 | <@TheWatcher> | /in theory/ the system should be a decent way to identify and stop bad mail systems |
| 20:52 | <@TheWatcher> | Except it involves human beings. |
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| 21:00 | <~Vornicus> | what makes smtp impossible to implement fully? |
| 21:05 | < ErikMesoy> | The spec is a nightmare. I saw a talk on this a while ago which I will try to dig up shortly, but in summary, implementation is required to handle a million different things, and also the spec for handling some of them is very different from the way users are accustomed to. |
| 21:06 | | * Derakon_ discovers another device that does not allow connections to die unless they are specifically terminated by the client, and thus must be powercycled if the client goes away uncleanly. |
| 21:07 | < ErikMesoy> | If you fully implemented SMTP, people wouldn't want it. |
| 21:07 | < Derakon_> | Time for another Telnet proxy, I guess. |
| 21:10 | <@TheWatcher> | Derakon_: someone needs to be hung upside-down over a scorpion pit for that stuff. |
| 21:11 | < Derakon_> | TW: yeah, you'd think they'd require keepalive requests or something at least. |
| 21:11 | < Derakon_> | I don't mind coding my client to have to make a call every 30s or renew the connection. |
| 21:14 | < Derakon_> | And it's a damned sight better than having to walk down three flights of stairs, put the booties on, go into the clean room, flick a switch down and then up, and then walk back up to my desk. |
| 21:14 | < Derakon_> | Er, and then apparently realize I left the booties on and throw them out. |
| 21:14 | <&McMartin> | doh |
| 21:15 | < Derakon_> | I haven't actually done that yet, but I've seen others do it. |
| 21:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: You don't need to; TCP implements a keepalive for you. |
| 21:18 | < Derakon_> | Even better! |
| 21:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Actually, it might already have it set up, it's just that the default keepalive timer tends to be set to 2 hours, so it can actually take 4 to 6 hours to detect a dead client |
| 21:19 | < Derakon_> | No, I've left them overnight and they haven't "recovered" on their own. |
| 21:19 | <@TheWatcher> | Blegh, probably hasn't turned it on, then |
| 21:43 | | * Vornicus tries to figure out if he can make his minecraft crafting excel sheet do what he wants without manual fiddling |
| 21:50 | <@iospace> | so a friend pointed out an easter egg in vim |
| 21:52 | <@RobinStamer> | Oh? |
| 21:52 | <@iospace> | the "Ni!" command |
| 21:53 | < Derakon_> | :help! prints "Don't panic!", relatedly. |
| 21:54 | <@iospace> | too bad the error isn't E042 |
| 22:06 | <@iospace> | Derakon_: :help 42 |
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| 22:23 | | * iospace pffts |
| 22:23 | <@iospace> | 17:12:37 < franny> Coding and tripping one's balls off are generally incompatible, unless you're using some of Haskell's more esoteric features. |
| 22:23 | <@iospace> | 17:16:18 < iospace> what about drunk off your ass? |
| 22:23 | <@iospace> | 17:20:12 < franny> That's why we have ultra-forgiving languages like Java. |
| 22:25 | | * Azash peers at anyone calling Java forgiving |
| 22:26 | < Derakon_> | "Forgiving" in a language generally means that it says "No, you don't want to do that" instead of blindly doing the wrong thing. |
| 22:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | Well, it's forgiving in the sense that if you fuck up it's more likely to fail to compile or give you a stack trace than segfault inexplicably an hour after the actual bug occurs |
| 22:26 | < Derakon_> | E.g. Python not letting you use '=' in an if statement. |
| 22:27 | <@Azash> | < Mars> Mark Zuckerberg took time out of this morning's presentation to highlight one partner in particular: Microsoft Bing. According to the CEO, the company has teamed up with Bing "to show you world class search results for things that don't match your query." |
| 22:27 | <@Azash> | Derakon_: Ah, I see |
| 22:27 | <@Azash> | I'd parse it the other way around but I guess I'm silly like that |
| 22:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | The other way around is "permissive", I believe. |
| 22:28 | < Derakon_> | The only other interpretation I can think of for "forgiving" here is "guesses at what you meant and tries to do it", which is utterly terrifying. |
| 22:28 | < Derakon_> | It's also what PHP and Perl tend to do~ |
| 22:28 | <&ToxicFrog> | "forgiving" implies that when you make mistakes, you aren't punished for them, which is definitely not the case with e.g. C |
| 22:29 | <@Azash> | Derakon_: Well, like "I forgive this glaring mistake, I'm sure you know what you're doing" |
| 22:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that's not forgiveness, that's blind faith |
| 22:29 | <&ToxicFrog> | Faith that it's not actually a mistake, I mean |
| 22:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | C and Perl both have that property and I would consider them both extremely unforgiving languages because if you screw up they'll take your legs off. |
| 22:31 | <@Azash> | They'll sedate you while you're asleep, then take your legs off |
| 22:31 | <@Azash> | Then ship you to south america and leave you in bed with a dead prostitute before you wake up |
| 22:31 | <@Azash> | At least that's how C feels at times |
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| --- Log closed Wed Jan 16 00:00:18 2013 |