code logs -> 2012 -> Wed, 12 Dec 2012< code.20121211.log - code.20121213.log >
--- Log opened Wed Dec 12 00:00:44 2012
00:11 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
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01:51
<&McMartin>
I have a new favorite line of I7
01:51
<&McMartin>
Rule for clarifying the parser's choice of favorite pants: do nothing.
01:52
<@iospace>
... what?
01:52
<&McMartin>
Well, I like it for the implication that the parser has taste in pants
01:53
<&McMartin>
What that code *does* is suppress the second line in:
01:53
<@iospace>
I7?
01:53
<&McMartin>
> TAKE PANTS
01:53
<&McMartin>
(your favorite pants)
01:53
<&McMartin>
Taken.
01:53
<&McMartin>
Inform 7, a domain specific language for text adventures
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02:03
<~Vornicus>
That line is worthy.
02:04
<@iospace>
heh
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02:39
<@Reiv>
Does 'domain specific language' have a particular ruleset aruond it?
02:41
< simon`_>
one fellow at my dept. calls Haskell a DSL for the .EDU domain.
02:42
< simon`_>
Reiv, I think the common definition is "any restriction to computation" and/or "with the intent of a specific application"
02:43
<&McMartin>
I prefer the latter.
02:43
<&McMartin>
A crapton of DSLs are Turing-Complete.
02:43
<&Derakon>
Yeah.
02:43
< simon`_>
yeah... I think the restriction to computation is usually a consequence of a limited application and not a requirement as such.
02:43
<&Derakon>
I mean, Matlab is a DSL for scientific computation.
02:43
<&Derakon>
But people write all kinds of crap in it.
02:44
< simon`_>
Derakon, I thought Matlab was a general-purpose language. if you call Matlab a DSL, is ActionScript also a DSL?
02:44
<~Vornicus>
Usually DSLs are built so if you do practically nothing the resulting program looks like the domain it's in
02:44
<&McMartin>
But yeah, I7 (and the more C-like I6 before it) let you define structures that correspond to precise regions of the Infocom Z-Machine's memory state.
02:44
<&McMartin>
It is very clearly domain specific.
02:44
<&McMartin>
(Also, it includes a natural language parser as its primary event model~)
02:45
<&McMartin>
(I7, as may be clear, also decides to point that at the language as well as the object code)
02:45
<&Derakon>
Simon: uh, maybe?
02:45
<&Derakon>
I would consider, say, AppleScript to be a DSL.
02:45
<&McMartin>
That's moving dangerously towards "scripting language"
02:46
<&Derakon>
I guess my definition's looser than most, then.
02:46
< simon`_>
I thought AppleScript is a general-purpose scripting language for automating Apple computers. I mean, yes, Apple computers are a domain, but it's the domain of a specific flavour of a general-purpose computer.
02:46
<&McMartin>
I think my personal breakpoint is "if you wrote something sufficiently different from the intended domain in it, would that count as an 'abuse'"
02:46
<&McMartin>
If AppleScript is a DSL, so is Perl.
02:46
< simon`_>
...and any language with bytecode, if you consider the bytecode VM a domain.
02:46
<&McMartin>
Also, the domain should be less general than "systems programming"~
02:46
<&McMartin>
A domain is a *problem space*
02:46
< simon`_>
;-)
02:47
< simon`_>
I think my defining criterion is "does it solve problems of a general nature, or does it solve a specific subset of problems using high-level constructs?"
02:48
<&Derakon>
Would you consider GM's scripting language to be a DSL, McM?
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02:49
<&McMartin>
It's getting there, but it's not quite there.
02:49
<&McMartin>
The Mindstorms aspect is.
02:50
<&McMartin>
GML itself is not, but the context in which it is embedded means that it's part of something that might count as such.
02:50
<&McMartin>
There's no way to express in GML "Bind this chunk of code to this event on this class of object"
02:54 * iospace steals McMartin's pants ^_^
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02:54 * Derakon hands iospace Grunk's flaming pants.
02:54
<@iospace>
Derakon: why are you giving me hot pants?
02:55
<&Derakon>
So you don't have to burn McM's pants as a light source.
02:57
<@iospace>
but i thought jerith was flaming enough that it wasn't an issue D:
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06:09 * jerith sets fire to iospace's underthings.
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06:55
< syksleep>
iospace: http://www.jerkcity.com/_jerkcity844.html :D nsfw
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08:07 * celticminstrel tries to do for..else in Java, comes up with BREAK: while(true) for() {loop_stuff_here(); break BREAK;} else_stuff_here(); break;}
08:11
<@Namegduf>
for...else?
08:16
<@celticminstrel>
The Python thing.
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08:24
<@Tarinaky>
https://github.com/blog/1302-goodbye-uploads
08:24
<@Tarinaky>
Fucking wank :/
08:39 syksleep is now known as Syk
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08:59
<&McMartin>
Welp
08:59
<&McMartin>
Because who needs to distribute to people who *aren't developers*, amirite
09:00
<&McMartin>
Those guys are just moochers and looters anyway
09:09
<@Namegduf>
To be fair, it's reasonable to suggest that your system for distributing to end users should not be your VCS provider.
09:09
<@Namegduf>
It was just convenient for tiny projects which didn't really have a website.
09:11
<&McMartin>
Don't all their suggested alternatives cost money?
09:12
<@Namegduf>
It's binary file distribution.
09:12
<@Namegduf>
Stick it on your website's webserver, done.
09:12
<&McMartin>
You mean, that thing that costs money.
09:13
<@Namegduf>
No, not really, free web hosts are actually more numerous than free VCS providers.
09:13
<&McMartin>
Yes, I admit to being more familiar with the Sourceforge model.
09:14
<&McMartin>
And yeah, I'm just as glad they're paying UQM's hosting costs. =P
09:16
<@Namegduf>
It's kinda inconvenient, but I could understand large files being a problem for them.
09:17
<&McMartin>
I imagine so
09:17
<&McMartin>
I'm mostly noting that it would have killed several of the major projects I worked on.
09:20
<@Namegduf>
They're major projects and they don't have a website?
09:20
<&McMartin>
They do have a website!
09:20
<&McMartin>
SourceForge hosts them.
09:20
<&McMartin>
That's also where the development is done.
09:20
<@Namegduf>
Ah, that explains it. Github does not AFAIK let you host your own website on their stuff.
09:21
<@Namegduf>
I don't think it has project UI skinning functionality or stuff like that.
09:22
<&McMartin>
Uh, well, it used to.
09:22
<&McMartin>
http://michaelcmartin.github.com/Ophis/ for instance.
09:23
<@Tarinaky>
McMartin: Given Github provides a wiki, bug tracker, etc... etc... etc... it was kind of convenient to have archived builds as well.
09:23
<&McMartin>
Granted, this is noticably simpler than sc2.sf.net, but a complete sc2 install is quite large and a quick check on the file stats is showing over 100MB of transfers per day.
09:24
<@Tarinaky>
Given most of the stuff I have on github can barely manage a README file...
09:24
<@Tarinaky>
A web host is asking a bit much.
09:24
<&McMartin>
I'm honestly baffled by this reaction.
09:24
<@Tarinaky>
What reaction?
09:25
<&McMartin>
"Who builds a site for their project so people can download it, anyway?"
09:25
<&McMartin>
"That's totally a niche case"
09:25
<@Tarinaky>
I'm not, actually, thinking about other people.
09:25
<@Tarinaky>
I am thinking about my self.
09:25
<@Tarinaky>
And I don't have a web site.
09:25
<&McMartin>
That's my metric for "you can maybe say your code is in alpha once you've done this"
09:25
<@Tarinaky>
I actually hate making web sites.
09:25 You're now known as TheWatcher
09:26
<&McMartin>
Lots of people hate debugging, you have to do that too =P
09:26
<@Tarinaky>
If making a web site was mandatory for writing code then I probably wouldn't want to write code any more.
09:26
<@Tarinaky>
I don't hate debugging.
09:27
<&McMartin>
But yes
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09:27
<&McMartin>
Unless you present the project in a usable form, it will not be used
09:27
<@Tarinaky>
My goal is not to be used.
09:27
<&McMartin>
Then why are you using a code-sharing site~
09:27
<@Tarinaky>
To share it with myself.
09:27
<@Tarinaky>
For the benefits inherent in hosting my source code, which I don't want to lose, on 'the cloud'.
09:28
<@Tarinaky>
And to link to it on my CV.
09:28
<@Tarinaky>
At no stage is "get people using my programs" an objective.
09:29
<&McMartin>
That attitude is utterly alien to me.
09:30
<@Tarinaky>
Oh, okay :/
09:30
<@Tarinaky>
"You don't have to be in a band with a myspace page to play the guitar"?
09:30
<&McMartin>
That I get!
09:31
<&McMartin>
I don't get "I'm putting all my guitar recordings up on my myspace page, but having people listen to them totally isn't the point"
09:31
<@Tarinaky>
Except source code isn't a guitar recording.
09:31
<@Tarinaky>
It's more like sheet music.
09:32
<&McMartin>
OK, I *also* don't get "I'm posting all this sheet music for music I composed to my MySpace page, but I don't want anyone to play it"
09:32
<@Tarinaky>
But it's not on my myspace page, it's on a private repo nobody else can see/use unless I add them.
09:32
<&McMartin>
Ah, I see.
09:33
<@Tarinaky>
But I can access it from anywhere on the planet.
09:33
<@Tarinaky>
On any computer I sit down at.
09:33
<&McMartin>
I maintained public repositories.
09:33
<@Tarinaky>
I make public repositories out of the stuff I want to share on my CV.
09:33
<&McMartin>
In the apparently mistaken belief that Github has interested in fostering some kind of software ecosystem and being a hub for useful stuff.
09:33
<@Tarinaky>
Because then having some code hosting actually helps.
09:33
<@Namegduf>
McMartin: My suspicion is that you could probably host your project download on Github Pages
09:34
<@Tarinaky>
But I don't want to have to make a website to host my portfolio on.
09:34
<&McMartin>
Namegduf: Yeah, for Ophis and ARGLE, sure.
09:34
<&McMartin>
But if SF did that to UQM, the project would shut down, even now.
09:35
<@Namegduf>
McMartin: Github Pages is the "lets you run a website" thing you linked there.
09:35
<@Namegduf>
If you're not using it, you have *nothing* but the default Github UI.
09:35
<@Namegduf>
UQM would be using Github Pages.
09:35
<&McMartin>
Well
09:35
<@Tarinaky>
Anyway. I use a particular feature that is being removed from github. I am allowed to be displeased by this.
09:36
<&McMartin>
I am not merely displeased, it was one of the sole features I relied on.
09:36
<&McMartin>
Namegduf: An UQM download is several hundred megabytes. It really should be just stuck on a website, and SF doesn't.
09:36
<&McMartin>
*should *not*
09:37
<@Namegduf>
In that case, yeah, you'd need to go somewhere else. But at that point you're asking for a lot more than a gesture to support the ecosystem, but for them to put up quite considerable funds.
09:38
<&McMartin>
Yes, which SF has in fact done as an explicit goal.
09:38
<&McMartin>
Which is good, because without that, the project would have been impossible.
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09:38
<@Namegduf>
SF is also laden with advertising and is a massive pain to use.
09:38
<&McMartin>
Which is why I was shifting my personal projects over to Github.
09:39
<&McMartin>
However, this appears to be a use case they don't want.
09:39
<@Namegduf>
My point is that if they're doing a lot less annoying stuff to make money, it's reasonable for them not to support expensive use cases for free.
09:39
<@Namegduf>
Even if SF does.
09:40
<&McMartin>
Which is fine, as far as it goes
09:40
<@Namegduf>
The suddenness is kind of harsh
09:40
<&McMartin>
But it does mean they are no longer actually offering the product I thought they were.
09:40
<@Namegduf>
No new uploads? I guess that release tomorrow is screwed
09:40
<&McMartin>
You just got finished saying that *releasing* isn't something you should be doing there =P
09:41
<@Namegduf>
Right, but I know people were already doing it.
09:41
<@Namegduf>
And they've not been given any migration period.
09:41
<@Namegduf>
I think it would have been good for them to have given a better migration period.
09:42
<@Namegduf>
Rather than, as you say, simply deciding that that's not a product they are selling (anymore).
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10:13
< Syk>
I want to buy a Nexus 4
10:13
< Syk>
Google are still out of stock
10:13
< Syk>
FREEE MARKETTTTT *darth vader pose*
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14:15 * iospace eyes Syk
14:15
< Syk>
wat
14:16 * Azash ears iospace
14:17
<@iospace>
that link wasn't nsfw except text :P
14:18
<@TheWatcher>
Azash: That would beel strange. Perhaps even quite eerie...
14:18
< Syk>
iospace: it's jerkcity
14:18
<@iospace>
heh
14:18
< Syk>
the next comic was basically "lol fags licking dick" which is about average for Jerkcity
14:19
<@Azash>
TheWatcher: I understand that someone with the handle TheWatcher might be predisposed to eyeing
14:19
<@Azash>
:P
14:19
<@TheWatcher>
Aye.
14:21
<&ToxicFrog>
The best use of Jerkcity is taking terrible political comics and replacing their dialogue with Jerkcity logs.
14:24
<@iospace>
hahah
14:24
<@iospace>
oh AMIBIOS
14:24
<@iospace>
written in ASM
14:24 * iospace gags
14:36
< Syk>
http://www.jerkcity.com/jerkcity3827.html
14:36
< Syk>
this is my favourite one ever
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14:59
<@froztbyte>
McMartin (and others who dink around with random languages): http://qdb.slipgate.za.net/FlyingCircus/318
15:06
< RichyB>
A botnet is probably a pretty good example of a utility computing system.
15:07
<@froztbyte>
indeed
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15:17 * TheWatcher reads some of the other quotes in there, fallsover laughing at some of SerpentWolf's amazing experiments in typing.
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15:18
<@froztbyte>
haha
15:18
<@froztbyte>
that qdb is full of interesting bits of wisdom
15:20 AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-27936bbc.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #code
15:20
<@froztbyte>
#321, for instance
15:20
<@froztbyte>
and #320
15:20
<@iospace>
oh
15:20
<@iospace>
?
15:21
<@froztbyte>
qdb.slipgate.za.net
15:33 celmin|sleep is now known as celticminstrel
15:35
<@gnolam>
http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/256816/if-n-the-order-of-a-group-and-gcd k-n-1-then-there-exists-an-element-in?__=650705013#comment562583_256816
15:37
<@TheWatcher>
.... pft, owned.
15:37
<@froztbyte>
youch
15:38
< Syk>
i dont get it
15:40
<@froztbyte>
Richard Statman is the examinator at CMU
15:40
<@froztbyte>
and OP is asking the internet for help on a take-home exam question
15:40
< Syk>
...
15:40
< Syk>
..........................BAHAHAH
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16:05
<@Tarinaky>
gnolam: Where's Statman?
16:06
<@gnolam>
Looks like it's been deleted by a moderator.
16:06
<@gnolam>
Still on his other question though: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/256822/product-of-two-polynomials-p-and- q-with-rational-coefficients-has-a-integer-coef
16:13
<@Tarinaky>
I see.
16:14
<@Namegduf>
And now it is gone.
16:14
<@Namegduf>
From there, too.
16:14
<@Namegduf>
Bill Dubuque is removing the hilarity in realtime.
16:15
<@gnolam>
Killjoy.
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16:17
<@gnolam>
Screenshotted for posterity: http://i.imgur.com/3ZZhS.png
16:33
<@Namegduf>
Nice; it just came up in another channel I was in, so I was able to link them the screenshot too.
17:11 Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody
17:36
<@froztbyte>
gnolam++
17:37
<@celticminstrel>
"John Paul"?
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23:03 VirusJTG [VirusJTG@Nightstar-09c31e7a.sta.comporium.net] has joined #code
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23:06 himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code
23:06 mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ
23:36 Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds]
23:37 Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-a3b183ae.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code
23:37 mode/#code [+ao Derakon Derakon] by ChanServ
23:53 Reiv [NSwebIRC@A3BDC3.5BE3EC.B8847E.5ADB9D] has joined #code
23:53 mode/#code [+o Reiv] by ChanServ
--- Log closed Thu Dec 13 00:00:59 2012
code logs -> 2012 -> Wed, 12 Dec 2012< code.20121211.log - code.20121213.log >

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