| --- Log opened Thu Oct 11 00:00:15 2012 |
| 00:09 | | * TheWatcher replaces all of iospace's code with perl, let's see if she notices |
| 00:23 | | * gnolam gets to use "Helicopter *parent", giggles. |
| 00:32 | <&McMartin> | You are a bad person |
| 00:39 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:42 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | Idly, anyone have any ideas why wget might only save part of a file? It's apparently losing "a chunk" of the start of the file (I'm trying to establish now much): everything after a point is saving fine, everything before is not there... except that this only appears to happen sometimes (I'm also trying to find out exact frequencies - the person telling me this is not being entirely useful). To make it weirder, I can't reproduce the problem |
| 00:42 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | at all |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | Are you getting a 206/316 back? |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | Er, is he |
| 00:43 | <&McMartin> | Also, he should see if curl -O works |
| 00:44 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | hmm, that's a point |
| 00:44 | | * TheWatcher[T-2] goes check the access log to see what that's returning |
| 00:44 | <&McMartin> | wget might be losing its shit and asking for ranges |
| 00:45 | <&McMartin> | (Or thinking it needs to pick up where it left off when it should be restarting, or...) |
| 00:48 | <@TheWatcher[T-2]> | Well, looking at the access logs, it's sending back status 200, same byte size transferred, so it's something on his end |
| 00:48 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | Fair enough |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | He should try curl instead of wget, to see if wget is just outfreaking |
| 00:49 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 00:50 | | * Derakon gets home from work, has two waiting pull requests for Pyrel and a bunch of questions in the angband-dev IRC backlog. |
| 00:50 | <&Derakon> | So much for taking a nap. >.< |
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| 01:33 | < gnolam> | MY QUATERNION-FU IS STRONG |
| 01:34 | <&McMartin> | MANY QUARTERNIONS KNEW WHAT IT WAS TO BE ROASTED IN THE DEPTHS OF THE SLOR THAT DAY, I CAN TELL YOU |
| 01:39 | < iospace> | TheWatcher[zZzZ]: we use C |
| 01:39 | < iospace> | i doubt Perl would work for what we use it for :D |
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| 14:53 | | * iospace eyes her changes |
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| 14:55 | < iospace> | work pl0x :< |
| 14:56 | | * RichyB hugs iospace. |
| 14:58 | | * iospace hugs RichyB |
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| 15:05 | < RichyB> | What are you hacking on? |
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| 15:10 | < iospace> | [REDACTED] |
| 15:10 | < iospace> | :P |
| 15:11 | < iospace> | (really it's BIOS devel) |
| 15:11 | < iospace> | beyond that i'm not going to go into much other details |
| 15:11 | < RichyB> | Work stuff that's NDA'd to Hell and back? |
| 15:11 | < RichyB> | NDAs are usual for where I work. |
| 15:11 | < iospace> | oh you wouldn't believe :P |
| 15:12 | < RichyB> | Yeah I would. |
| 15:12 | < iospace> | lets see |
| 15:12 | < RichyB> | There are advertising people working in the same building as me; everything in the building is secret-by-default |
| 15:12 | < RichyB> | their customers are real cagey about leaks ruining their marketing campaign timing. |
| 15:13 | < iospace> | well not only do we have our company's NDA, we have other NDAs from our vendors |
| 15:13 | < iospace> | huzzah! It works :D |
| 15:13 | < RichyB> | IMO, unless you're signing the Official Secrets Act (or some local equivalent) and therefore are subject to jail time or being shot for treason, it's not really *nuts*. :) |
| 15:13 | | * iospace shrugs |
| 15:14 | < RichyB> | Our company signs NDAs from its customers, we have all signed an NDA from our company. |
| 15:15 | < RichyB> | Do you actually get NDAs from your *suppliers*? |
| 15:18 | < iospace> | yup |
| 15:18 | < iospace> | we do |
| 15:19 | < iospace> | ^^;; |
| 15:19 | < iospace> | we have an Intel NDA actually as well |
| 15:19 | < iospace> | and that's just the tip of it :D |
| 15:21 | < iospace> | (no really, we need access to the intel specs for their chipsets and processors as we are doing BIOS devel) |
| 15:21 | < RichyB> | Cool! |
| 15:21 | < RichyB> | Makes sense. |
| 15:21 | < RichyB> | Kinda sucks that they don't just publish all of their manuals (from the Linux hippy perspective) but that's hardly your fault. :) |
| 15:22 | < iospace> | trade secrets and what not |
| 15:23 | < iospace> | i've done BIOS devel, VxWorks devel, and Linux devel ^^;; |
| 15:27 | < iospace> | tiem to break the build :D |
| 15:30 | < froztbyte> | vxWorks devel....you poor soul |
| 15:31 | < iospace> | froztbyte: eh, the default shell though is amazing ^_^ |
| 15:31 | < froztbyte> | euh |
| 15:31 | < froztbyte> | not on the ones I've been exposed to |
| 15:31 | < iospace> | oh? |
| 15:31 | < froztbyte> | but that's typically been production equipment and stolen debug creds |
| 15:32 | < froztbyte> | so it might not be the default shell you get on the dev stuff? |
| 15:32 | < iospace> | maybe |
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| 15:35 | < froztbyte> | so what sort of amazing is there? |
| 15:35 | < froztbyte> | is it like zsh amazing? |
| 15:35 | < froztbyte> | or other sorts of integration added amazing? |
| 15:36 | < iospace> | like taking the C functions that are used in the build files and running them out of the shell |
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| 15:49 | < froztbyte> | ah |
| 15:50 | < froztbyte> | yeah, stuff like that is pretty cool |
| 15:50 | < froztbyte> | have seen it in one or two other things as well |
| 15:58 | < iospace> | :P |
| 15:58 | < iospace> | amazing when you're doing development |
| 16:00 | | RichyB [richardb@7D8456.14C5E0.08BE20.B646E9] has joined #code |
| 16:03 | < iospace> | HUZZAH |
| 16:03 | < iospace> | it works |
| 16:03 | < iospace> | somewhat ._. |
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| 17:27 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 17:32 | < iospace> | so for the first half of my time here I was the only alex, now there's another one :< |
| 17:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Heh |
| 17:41 | <@TheWatcher> | When I started, there was one other Chris in the department. Now there's 5 others. Don't want to even think how many there are across the uni... |
| 17:42 | <&Derakon> | But you'll always be Other Chris when I'm around~ |
| 17:53 | < iospace> | well, when I started there was a David Becker (me) and a David Barker (guy in sales) |
| 17:57 | < iospace> | The other Alex is Alexander, legally it's simply "Alex" for me ^^;; |
| 18:13 | < iospace> | this if is horrible |
| 18:13 | < iospace> | if { } else if { } else { if { } else { if {} } } |
| 18:25 | | ErikMesoy [Erik@Nightstar-bd2f5f93.80-203-16.nextgentel.com] has joined #code |
| 18:26 | | Azash [ap@Nightstar-339920e6.net] has joined #code |
| 18:26 | | * Azash looks around |
| 18:28 | | Schleiermacher1 [Martin@D553D1.93D8F9.2E2A33.D7B450] has joined #code |
| 18:32 | | * iospace hugs Azash ^_^ |
| 18:33 | | Einar [Classified@Nightstar-1575ca56.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #code |
| 18:37 | < ErikMesoy> | Bitching about today's programming exam! There's a fine gradation between Things You Ought To Know, like the fact that A[2] will get you the third element of A, not the second, and Things You Have Quick Reference/Google For. |
| 18:38 | < ErikMesoy> | I expect people disagree about what exactly goes in the second category, but the test I took today had more of it than I expected nonetheless. |
| 18:39 | < ErikMesoy> | For instance, how to get a graphic plotter to output dots indicating the data points it has. (The plotter draws a line by default.) I spent quite some time being uncertain as to which argument made the plotter draw DOTS, and which argument made the plotter draw a DOTTED LINE. |
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| 18:43 | < ErikMesoy> | There were also quite a lot of are-you-paying-attention questions such as for x,y (...) print '%.1f %.1f' % (y, x) |
| 18:44 | < EvilDarkLord> | I don't think we had quite that much memorization in early programming courses. Lots of paying-attention ones though. |
| 18:45 | < Schleiermacher1> | It's misaimed and dumb, like 90% of mathematics education. |
| 18:45 | < ErikMesoy> | For one point: what will be the output of this bad Python code with four different points of obfuscation and bad writing? |
| 18:46 | < ErikMesoy> | I giggled at the time when they defined a function one way, then defined it another way, then called it twice. |
| 18:46 | < ErikMesoy> | "Hmmm, that means one call to each definition, right?" |
| 18:48 | < Schleiermacher1> | Were there any questions that required more than trace amounts of individual thought? |
| 18:48 | < Schleiermacher1> | *independent thought. |
| 18:48 | < ErikMesoy> | Yes. A couple of "Write a function". |
| 18:49 | <&Derakon> | My "favorite" weird edge case in Python is when you have a function that, some ways down, names a variable the same name as a module you've imported at the top of the file. |
| 18:49 | <&Derakon> | And earlier in the function you try to use the imported module. |
| 18:49 | <&Derakon> | Python will complain that the variable hasn't been initialized yet. |
| 18:56 | < ErikMesoy> | Schleiermacher1: My cynical side says it might not be misaimed. Sure it's not aimed at me, but this is a country where the average person is nudged towards university. |
| 19:01 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 19:04 | | * Azash hugs iospace tentatively |
| 19:05 | < Azash> | ErikMesoy: Oh the joys of paper coding |
| 19:05 | < ErikMesoy> | :| |
| 19:08 | | * Azash greets Schlei |
| 19:09 | < iospace> | Azash: new? :) |
| 19:10 | < Azash> | 20:32 * iospace hugs Azash ^_^ |
| 19:10 | < Azash> | Aye |
| 19:13 | < iospace> | so what brings you to #code here on nightstar then? :) |
| 19:21 | < iospace> | Azash: also, what do you focus on in terms of coding, like specialties and such ^_^ |
| 19:23 | < Azash> | I was brought here by someone mentioning the channel name elsewhere |
| 19:23 | <&ToxicFrog> | Welcome |
| 19:23 | < Azash> | My interest is mostly in systems programming, networking and security - but what I'm interested in does not overlap very well with what I have actual experience with so far. :b |
| 19:23 | < Azash> | Thank you kindly |
| 19:24 | < Azash> | ErikMesoy: Sorry for the terse comment, I was on the phone for a while |
| 19:25 | < Azash> | Our programming exams tend to feature a pleasant 4-6 pages of code because there isn't really any work done in doing exams on computers |
| 19:26 | < iospace> | ah :P |
| 19:27 | < iospace> | i'm probably the resident embedded dev ^_^ |
| 19:27 | <&ToxicFrog> | I've done a fair bit of embedded work and systems work, but it's not really my focus (or my pleasure) |
| 19:28 | < Azash> | Ah, sounds interesting |
| 19:28 | < Azash> | Embedded work would be great to do |
| 19:29 | < iospace> | i like it a lot |
| 19:30 | < iospace> | though right now i'm not doing like microcontroller devel, it's BIOS |
| 19:30 | < iospace> | which still counts :P |
| 19:30 | <~Vornicus> | Der: my "favorite" is that mutable default arguments don't get remade each time. |
| 19:30 | <&ToxicFrog> | I am so over low-level programming @.@ |
| 19:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Going to finish my thesis and then spend a few years working in nothing but python, lua and lisp |
| 19:31 | <&ToxicFrog> | Maybe a bit of scala when I'm feeling statically typed |
| 19:31 | < Azash> | I'm involved in a troika with plans to write a hobby OS but we still haven't figured out where to start.. |
| 19:31 | < Azash> | ToxicFrog: Haha, good plan |
| 19:32 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: low level is fun :P |
| 19:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | noooo |
| 19:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | I need my closures |
| 19:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | my beautiful closures and garbage collection |
| 19:33 | | * iospace makes ToxicFrog write in ASM |
| 19:33 | < iospace> | :D |
| 19:34 | | * Einar makes Toxic write in Brainf*ck |
| 19:34 | < iospace> | :D |
| 19:34 | | * iospace fucks with SMBIOS tables |
| 19:35 | < iospace> | oh wow |
| 19:35 | < iospace> | the SMBIOS spec is open o_O |
| 19:36 | < Azash> | Also, if anyone is bored, I'd appreciate feedback https://github.com/haeroe/NewRepo/blob/master/newrepo.sh |
| 19:36 | < Azash> | I'm.. well, very green when it comes to sh |
| 19:37 | < iospace> | it's ok |
| 19:37 | | * ToxicFrog replaces both iospace and Einar with small lisp macros |
| 19:37 | < Einar> | http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/?s=Pathological+programming <- Choose from any of these languages, Toxic |
| 19:37 | < iospace> | we all have our weaknesses ^_^ |
| 19:37 | < Einar> | They're all Turing complete. And crazy |
| 19:37 | | * iospace finds herself replaced by a lot of parens |
| 19:38 | < Azash> | If you do lisp research, are you working on your parenthesis? |
| 19:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: what's your goal with $DIR? |
| 19:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | If it's just to save/restore the current directory, use pushd and popd: mkdir -p "$3" && pushd "$3"; ...; popd |
| 19:40 | < Azash> | ToxicFrog: A lazy man's way to avoid looking up running git commands into different direct- |
| 19:40 | < Azash> | Aha! Thank you |
| 19:41 | < Azash> | Is that a core function? |
| 19:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | (running git commands in a separate directory can be done by setting GIT_DIR and GIT_WORK_TREE, but it's easier to just pushd into the directory you want to play with) |
| 19:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | It is in bash, don't know about sh |
| 19:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | ben@thoth:~/opt/1DC/cc1dc/imap/lib/xc$ type pushd |
| 19:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | pushd is a shell builtin |
| 19:42 | < Azash> | I see, I see |
| 19:42 | < Azash> | That's great, thanks |
| 19:42 | < froztbyte> | Azash: just as a side nitpick, you may want to refer to bash when it's bash |
| 19:42 | <&ToxicFrog> | "git add *" should be "git add ." - * won't pick up .gitignore unless the user has changed their dotglob setting |
| 19:42 | < froztbyte> | sh is actually another thing that bash can (badly) provide |
| 19:43 | < froztbyte> | I actually think the bash dudes just backronymed the "bourne again" part. it really must stand for "ba(d)sh" ;D |
| 19:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: also, if you clone rather than init/remote add, you can simplify this a lot |
| 19:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | curl ... |
| 19:45 | < froztbyte> | also, maybe do USER="$1" somewhere early on |
| 19:45 | < froztbyte> | then you have a named variable you can always look at, and not have to mentally track which is where |
| 19:45 | <&ToxicFrog> | git clone "git@github.com:$USER/$REPO.git" "$LOCALREPO" |
| 19:45 | < Azash> | I did that and managed to cause an error so I was just like "forget it" |
| 19:45 | < Azash> | Probably left spaces around the = |
| 19:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | And don't forget your quotes! |
| 19:46 | <&ToxicFrog> | (you can pass a nonexistent directory as the second argument to 'git clone' and it'll create it as mkdir -p would) |
| 19:46 | < froztbyte> | ToxicFrog: on that I'd actually recommend ${USER}/${REPO} |
| 19:46 | < froztbyte> | half because explicit is better than implicit, and half because it's a good habit to start developing early on :) |
| 19:47 | < Azash> | What does {} do? Explicitly say where the variable name ends? |
| 19:47 | < froztbyte> | it just delimits, yeah |
| 19:47 | < froztbyte> | but sometimes, when working whole a very large chunk of them, that gets very helpful |
| 19:48 | < froztbyte> | also if you have something like stringer="$fooBAR$monkeys$cakes" |
| 19:48 | < froztbyte> | (bad example, but it gets the idea across) |
| 19:48 | < Azash> | Yeah |
| 19:49 | < Azash> | Thanks for that |
| 19:50 | < Einar> | http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2007/02/02/pathological-programming-as-pa-1/ |
| 19:51 | < Azash> | $ git commit -m "Using pushd/popd and clarified code using {} and vars. Thanks TF/fr" |
| 19:51 | < Azash> | (????) |
| 19:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | Don't forget your quotes |
| 19:52 | <&ToxicFrog> | quooooooooooootes |
| 19:53 | < Einar> | Why are you programming in a laguage like that? Use SNUSP |
| 19:53 | < Einar> | http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2009/09/10/two-dimensional-pathological-b/ |
| 19:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | This will go sproing as soon as someone runs it as 'newrepo user repo ~/devel/"my totally sweet program"' |
| 19:53 | < Azash> | Where, ToxicFrog? |
| 19:53 | < Azash> | Ah |
| 19:53 | < Azash> | Hm |
| 19:53 | <&ToxicFrog> | Lines 14, 15, 17, 18, 25 |
| 19:56 | < Azash> | How should I add the quote marks to line 25? And do I need to add them again when the variables have been assigned using them? |
| 19:57 | | * iospace gets an eye twitch |
| 19:58 | < iospace> | oh oh oh! |
| 19:58 | < iospace> | Azash: Vim or Emacs? |
| 19:58 | < Azash> | Well.. I'm planning to move to vim but I'm using nano so far |
| 19:58 | < iospace> | blank? |
| 19:59 | < froztbyte> | select it |
| 19:59 | < iospace> | oh, nano |
| 19:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | whut |
| 19:59 | < iospace> | froztbyte: i'm on irssi, doesn't work that well :P |
| 19:59 | | Schleiermacher1 [Martin@D553D1.93D8F9.2E2A33.D7B450] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 19:59 | < iospace> | (irssi through putty to be specific) |
| 19:59 | < froztbyte> | iospace: and your terminal emulator doesn't .... ah |
| 19:59 | < froztbyte> | yeah, you're boned :P |
| 19:59 | < iospace> | yeah yeah |
| 19:59 | | * iospace smacks froztbyte with a SPI flash |
| 19:59 | < Azash> | You can paint spoilers and paste into the send buffer to see it |
| 19:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | I would go completely brain-foaming crazy if I had to do everything nano |
| 19:59 | < froztbyte> | terminal emulation is so horrible :( |
| 19:59 | <&ToxicFrog> | *in nano |
| 20:00 | < froztbyte> | it is pretty bad, yeah |
| 20:00 | | Schleiermacher [Martin@Nightstar-92e426ef.bb.online.no] has joined #code |
| 20:00 | < iospace> | froztbyte: well it's putty connecting to my friend's SSH server and i'm running screen with irssi in it |
| 20:00 | < iospace> | :P |
| 20:00 | < Azash> | My only complaint with putty-irssi is that I can't see ( ???) very well |
| 20:00 | < froztbyte> | one of my junior colleagues used to use it, because he didn't know how to use vim |
| 20:00 | < froztbyte> | so I spent the 6min just getting him going on the vim basics |
| 20:00 | < froztbyte> | nano == gone |
| 20:00 | < Azash> | I have everything set up, there just isn't a good monospace font to use that would display unicode well |
| 20:01 | < iospace> | !!! |
| 20:01 | < iospace> | there |
| 20:01 | < iospace> | found how to disable colors :P |
| 20:01 | < froztbyte> | iospace: I think it's mostly just the putty part that causes crap |
| 20:01 | < iospace> | yeah yeah |
| 20:01 | | * Vornicus hates console text editors. |
| 20:01 | < froztbyte> | not that I have a good recommendation of a replacement |
| 20:01 | < froztbyte> | Vornicus: well, there's gvim too |
| 20:01 | < froztbyte> | but it's basically nano == notepad |
| 20:02 | < froztbyte> | just without the mouse selection bit (easily done) |
| 20:02 | < iospace> | i'm technically using gvim but i really only use it to copy and paste :P |
| 20:03 | < iospace> | plus, i work in a console all day :P |
| 20:03 | < iospace> | yay 115200 baud serial ^_^ |
| 20:05 | < froztbyte> | heh, lucky |
| 20:05 | < froztbyte> | some of the network devices I have to interact with now and then only really work at 9600 with echo |
| 20:05 | < froztbyte> | so. slow. |
| 20:08 | < iospace> | hold on... |
| 20:08 | < iospace> | i can throttle the baud rate all the way down to 1200 |
| 20:08 | < iospace> | and i have done it |
| 20:08 | < iospace> | your 9600 means nothing to me D< |
| 20:09 | < Azash> | What's everyone working on? |
| 20:09 | < iospace> | BIOS devel still :P i'm at work ^^;; |
| 20:09 | < froztbyte> | iospace: well, no |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | iospace: I mean that 9600 was the max possible on the console port |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | I bet those things could prolly roll 900 |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | though I didn't dare try |
| 20:10 | < iospace> | i got 2 baud to work once back when i took data comm |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | good lord |
| 20:10 | < iospace> | don't ask how the fuck ti worked but it did |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | massochist |
| 20:10 | < froztbyte> | iospace: "slowly" |
| 20:10 | < iospace> | it was an error! |
| 20:10 | < iospace> | we used "getSelectedIndex" instead of "getSelectedValue" |
| 20:12 | < Azash> | Brilliant |
| 20:12 | < iospace> | indeed |
| 20:13 | < froztbyte> | Azash: right now I'm working on making my nerves feel better after the last two days of work |
| 20:13 | < iospace> | hell the professor didn't catch that either XD |
| 20:13 | < froztbyte> | and I'm using Kill Bill to do so |
| 20:14 | < Azash> | Sounds good |
| 20:14 | < Azash> | I was looking forward to some R&R after my exam week, too, but looks like I'll be putting down 40 hours on our SE project on my free week.. |
| 20:15 | < Azash> | In case anyone is interested in the area, we're parsing JavaScript syntax trees to track program flow between DOMXSS sources and sinks to identify vulnerabilities |
| 20:16 | < froztbyte> | SE? |
| 20:16 | < Azash> | Software engineering |
| 20:16 | < froztbyte> | ah |
| 20:16 | < froztbyte> | also, good luck. |
| 20:17 | < froztbyte> | (that sounds like it could be extremely painful) |
| 20:17 | < Azash> | One of the two finals for our BSc structure |
| 20:17 | < iospace> | i switched to compsci |
| 20:17 | < Azash> | Thanks |
| 20:17 | < Azash> | And yeah, it really is |
| 20:17 | < Azash> | We're going in a sine wave between "we might just do this" and suicidal tendencies |
| 20:17 | < Azash> | :b |
| 20:17 | < Azash> | iospace: Do tell |
| 20:18 | < froztbyte> | I'm honestly not surprised |
| 20:18 | < iospace> | it was more "UML Diagrams yay!" than actual code -_-;; |
| 20:19 | < Azash> | Aw :( |
| 20:19 | <&ToxicFrog> | Azash: I'm working on my thesis! Still! |
| 20:19 | < Azash> | ToxicFrog: What's it on? |
| 20:20 | <&ToxicFrog> | Well, strictly speaking I'm demoing the results of my research at TEXPO, but the demo pretty much runs itself, so whenever someone isn't coming over to talk, I'm thesing. |
| 20:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | (it's up to 44 pages now, not counting appendices) |
| 20:21 | <&ToxicFrog> | It's a port of the Pilot cluster computing library to the IMAP5 reconfigurable embedded image processor. |
| 20:26 | < Azash> | I'm afraid I've no experience with Pilot or IMAP5, but hey, distributed systems, so it's probably awesome |
| 20:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | (Pilot is a message-passing, CSP-based, printf-inspired MPI wrapper for supercomputing clusters. None of the code is applicable here, but the underlying concepts and API map well to the capabilities of the IMAP5) |
| 20:27 | <&ToxicFrog> | (the IMAP5, in turn, is a realtime image processor. It has two operating modes: single core with 128-way SIMD, or 33 core with no SIMD capability. In multicore mode, however, it has no cache coherency, and the on-chip message passing network is full of spiders and deadlocks. My project is an attempt to make programming for the multicore mode tractable.) |
| 20:28 | < Azash> | Ah, I see |
| 20:28 | < Azash> | So you're dropping Pilot down to OS level, basically? |
| 20:33 | | * iospace head desks |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | Well, not quite - I mean, we do have a libc |
| 20:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | And this isn't really an application space that has an "OS" anyways |
| 20:36 | < iospace> | this is what i get for using hacky code, things could go wrong |
| 20:37 | | * Azash nods |
| 20:39 | <&ToxicFrog> | You write your program, link it against libautopilot (and libutil and libvideo and whatever else), and then load it onto the chip and jump directly into it |
| 20:39 | | * iospace eyes this code |
| 20:39 | < gnolam> | Azash: our software engineering projects were awesome. We were handed real projects ordered by external customers (who knew full well that the chances of them getting something /useful/ out of it were slim, but still). |
| 20:39 | < Azash> | ToxicFrog: Gitcha |
| 20:40 | < iospace> | Cast as a UINTN then cast it as UINT8* |
| 20:40 | < Azash> | gnolam: Same here |
| 20:40 | < gnolam> | Ah, cool. |
| 20:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 20:40 | < Azash> | We're doing work for a guy at a security consulting company who explained that anything that saves his time in trawling through 10,000-line javascript files is good |
| 20:40 | <&ToxicFrog> | grep~ |
| 20:41 | < Azash> | Backtracking to look for XSS still takes time with grep |
| 20:41 | < gnolam> | Heh. Ours were for the most part either doing it out of charity - because they used to study at the same programme - or as basically feasability studies. |
| 20:41 | < iospace> | var1 = (UINT8*) (UINTN) (var2->x) more or less ._. |
| 20:42 | < gnolam> | *feasibility, |
| 20:42 | < Azash> | Yeah, for us it's like, the client doesn't pay anything, the university pays for the TA (one per 4-5 man group), and then we do the work and maybe it becomes something |
| 20:42 | < gnolam> | Just like for us then. But we had bigger groups, and simulated being even larger groups. |
| 20:43 | < Azash> | Usually it doesn't, but the point is just to train teamwork routine, not succeed right off the bat |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | (Something like 8 or 9 people simulating a group of 40-50) |
| 20:43 | < Azash> | Ah |
| 20:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 20:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | murder them |
| 20:43 | < Azash> | We also have a master's-level version which is used as basically a set of guinea pigs for agile research |
| 20:43 | < Azash> | iospace: Wow |
| 20:43 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: oh, that's just one of the reasons why we want to murder that company ^_^ |
| 20:44 | < gnolam> | (I.e. lots and lots of paperwork) |
| 20:44 | < iospace> | this is C mind you |
| 20:45 | < Azash> | Is x meant to store an address or is this just some strange wizardry? |
| 20:45 | < iospace> | Azash: it's just a dummy variable i was using as an example |
| 20:45 | | * iospace has an NDA :P |
| 20:45 | < Azash> | Alright |
| 20:46 | < gnolam> | And when summer came, so did a job offer from our client. :) |
| 20:46 | < gnolam> | This wasn't unusual. |
| 20:46 | < Azash> | It could just be something that the cast from a pointer to UINTN does that is desired |
| 20:46 | | * iospace shrugs |
| 20:46 | < Azash> | gnolam: Nice |
| 20:46 | | * Azash wouldn't mind working in security, but his department has very little security presence |
| 20:47 | < iospace> | ... oh god |
| 20:47 | < iospace> | i have to use that line |
| 20:47 | < iospace> | Dx |
| 20:47 | < gnolam> | Been doing odd jobs for them ever since. |
| 20:47 | < gnolam> | Surprisingly awesome ones at that. |
| 20:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: what is the declared type of x? |
| 20:48 | < iospace> | uh |
| 20:48 | < iospace> | UINT32 |
| 20:48 | <&ToxicFrog> | welp |
| 20:48 | < iospace> | yeah, UINT32 |
| 20:48 | < iospace> | so it's converting a UINT32 into a UINTN into a UINT8* |
| 20:50 | < iospace> | ahhhh ok |
| 20:50 | < iospace> | i know why it does that |
| 20:50 | < iospace> | 32 bit systems vs 64 bit systems |
| 20:51 | < iospace> | this is BIOS code |
| 20:56 | < iospace> | well, not even 32 bit vs 64 bit, but it allows it to work on any system really |
| 20:57 | < iospace> | yeah, it makes sense |
| 20:57 | < iospace> | i'd explain more but NDA D: |
| 20:57 | <&ToxicFrog> | :gonk: |
| 20:58 | <&ToxicFrog> | Isn't the way to make it portable across systems to use intptr_t or void*? |
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| 20:58 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 21:04 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | TF: but that would be entirely too clean and boring. |
| 21:06 | < Azash> | We're talking about BIOS code in C, I don't think "clean and boring" ever enters the picture |
| 21:06 | < Azash> | :b |
| 21:07 | < iospace> | indeed |
| 21:07 | < iospace> | at the root level it allows you to convert an address to a pointer and not worry about how many bits the system is |
| 21:13 | <&Derakon> | Man, it's amazing how slow just drawing a bunch of characters to a screen can be if you don't do it intelligently... |
| 21:13 | <&Derakon> | Like, .1s to do an 80x24 grid. |
| 21:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: yeah, but I mean, here's how you do that without worrying sanely: |
| 21:16 | <&ToxicFrog> | intptr_t addr; uint8_t * ptr = (uint8_t *)addr; |
| 21:17 | | * Derakon implements smooth scrolling in Pyrel by drawing the old screen on top of the new one, offset by the necessary number of tiles. |
| 21:17 | <&Derakon> | Unfortunately this breaks completely when the old screen was from a previous level. |
| 21:17 | <&Derakon> | And the artist currently has no way to know that the level has been changed out from under it. |
| 21:21 | | * Derakon ponders setting up a simple pubsub system so the UI can be notified of various game events. |
| 21:22 | <&Derakon> | That is, there'd be a central event-processing system; the UI would subscribe to the "new level generation" event with a function, and when any part of the engine publishes a "new level generation" event, the function would be called. |
| 21:22 | <&Derakon> | It's a simple system; I've set them up before. |
| 21:22 | <&Derakon> | But it does kind of break locality and make it hard to trace stuff. |
| 21:26 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: you sure that works? :) |
| 21:26 | <&ToxicFrog> | iospace: yes? |
| 21:27 | | * TheWatcher[afk] eyes iospace |
| 21:27 | | * iospace eyes TheWatcher[afk] |
| 21:28 | < iospace> | ToxicFrog: ok, let me ask you this. will that work with every compiler, OS, and bit count? |
| 21:28 | <@TheWatcher[afk]> | ... yes |
| 21:28 | | * iospace shrugs then |
| 21:29 | < iospace> | actually shit |
| 21:29 | < iospace> | it's open source |
| 21:29 | < iospace> | well BSD licensed |
| 21:33 | < iospace> | intptr_t is an int of size what? |
| 21:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | Depends on the platform. That's kind of the entire point. |
| 21:33 | <&ToxicFrog> | "The following type designates a signed integer type with the property that any valid pointer to void can be converted to this type, then converted back to a pointer to void, and the result will compare equal to the original pointer: intptr_t" |
| 21:34 | < iospace> | yeah no |
| 21:34 | <&ToxicFrog> | There's also uintptr_t for unsigned integer types. |
| 21:35 | < iospace> | yeah that's not going to work |
| 21:35 | < iospace> | considering that the addr has to be in 32 bit space |
| 21:36 | < iospace> | if you have a problem with that you're free to write to DMTF |
| 21:36 | <&ToxicFrog> | DMTF? |
| 21:36 | < iospace> | Distributed Management Task Force |
| 21:37 | <&jerith> | Not Dual Multi Tone Frequency? |
| 21:38 | < iospace> | the reason it has to be in 32 bit space? this is /BIOS code/. last time i checked ARM is still in 32 bit :P |
| 21:41 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok, so what you're saying is that it doesn't work at all on systems that don't have that restriction~ |
| 21:41 | < iospace> | uhm... define "restriction" here |
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| 21:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok I don't even know what your objection is anymore |
| 21:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Or the constraints this code is meant to adhere to |
| 21:43 | < iospace> | ok |
| 21:43 | <&ToxicFrog> | Pointers can be 32 or more bits, but this pointer is always known to be at most 32? |
| 21:44 | < iospace> | the address of the structure is no more than 32 bits. |
| 21:44 | <&ToxicFrog> | But that wouldn't make intptr_t unusable, just wasteful (since on a 64-bit system it will be 64 bits wide) |
| 21:44 | < iospace> | yes, and we're talking about something that needs to use as little memory as possible |
| 21:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | Ok |
| 21:47 | <&ToxicFrog> | So these platforms use >32bits memory space, but this pointer is always guaranteed to be <=32bits? |
| 21:48 | < iospace> | not quite |
| 21:48 | < iospace> | the platforms could either be 32 or 64 bit memory space |
| 21:48 | < iospace> | however the address has to be in 32 bit space |
| 21:49 | < iospace> | it's more or less to assure that it's compatable with 32 bit systems |
| 21:51 | <&ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 21:51 | < iospace> | considering this is part of UEFI which is designed to work on 32 or 64 bit systems |
| 21:51 | < iospace> | well, SMBIOS really |
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| 21:56 | < iospace> | so while yes, your idea would work, it's just not a good idea here |
| 21:59 | < iospace> | i just wish they implimented a better way to access the elements of the SMBIOS table better :< |
| 22:08 | < iospace> | also, damn you case sensativity! |
| 22:41 | | * Derakon eyes this bit of code... |
| 22:41 | <&Derakon> | class AsciiArtist(gui.base.artists.artist.Artist): def __init__(self, *args): gui.base.artists.artist.Artist.__init__(self, *args) |
| 22:42 | < iospace> | ok, one last build and then therapy D: |
| 22:42 | < iospace> | and failed? o_O |
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| 22:42 | | * iospace runs out the door |
| 23:35 | | * Azash pats iospace |
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| 23:44 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Fri Oct 12 00:00:30 2012 |