| --- Log opened Thu Sep 13 00:00:46 2012 |
| 00:26 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-05d23b97.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
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| 00:47 | <&McMartin> | "The F# Tools for Visual Studio Express 2012 for Web allow F# development in ASP.NET and Azure" |
| 00:47 | <&McMartin> | OCaml .NET webapps for all |
| 00:48 | <&McMartin> | Though I hear F# is a lot less OCaml-y these days |
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| 05:49 | | ErikMesoy|sleep is now known as ErikMesoy |
| 06:14 | <&Derakon> | Ehhh... |
| 06:15 | <&Derakon> | Guy on the Angband forums suggested I start working on unit tests for Pyrel now, while the project's young. |
| 06:15 | <&Derakon> | I hate writing tests. >.< |
| 06:27 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:19 | < simon_> | hehe |
| 07:19 | < simon_> | they take forever. |
| 07:23 | <&jerith> | Derakon[AFK]: There's only one thing I hate more than writing tests. |
| 07:24 | <&jerith> | And that's working on a codebase that doesn't have tests. |
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| 09:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 15:56 | | * TheWatcher headdesks |
| 15:57 | <@TheWatcher> | `if($pos)` != `if(defined($pos))` argh |
| 15:58 | <@Tamber> | Oops. |
| 16:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Signs I should probably stop trying to code today: 'git commmmit blocks/Feature/Materials.pm' |
| 16:23 | <@TheWatcher> | followed by managing to reduce that to three 'm's on the second attempt... |
| 16:27 | <&McMartin> | a spectre haunts the codebase; the spectre of commmmunism |
| 16:28 | <@TheWatcher> | pffft |
| 16:28 | < ErikMesoy> | you're just afraid of commmmitment (that's what she said) |
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| 17:30 | | * AnnoDomini attempts to figure out how to open a MOBI file. |
| 17:31 | < AnnoDomini> | There we go. All it took was renaming the file properly to .mobi instead of .mim. |
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| 17:52 | <&McMartin> | Heh |
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| 19:01 | < ErikMesoy> | I've written a function that takes a three-element list as its argument in Python, by means of making assumptions in the function that the argument is a three-element list. Is there anything more to do? Can I tell the function in some way that it should take a three-element list, other than by writing stuff that fails on other arguments? |
| 19:02 | < ErikMesoy> | In other languages I would have said something like "dim". |
| 19:03 | < ErikMesoy> | What I've got /works/, but I'm not sure if there's more to it. |
| 19:04 | < AnnoDomini> | In mIRC, I'd use the 'required parameter' syntax, not sure if Python has it. |
| 19:06 | <~Vornicus> | does it have to be a list |
| 19:07 | <~Vornicus> | COuld it be a tuple or string or other sequence type. |
| 19:07 | <&McMartin> | Normally I'd write a function that takes three arguments instead of a three-element list |
| 19:10 | < ErikMesoy> | A tuple is fine too. |
| 19:10 | <~Vornicus> | why must it be exactly three elements? |
| 19:11 | <~Vornicus> | why must they be packed as opposed to unpacked the way McM describes. |
| 19:12 | < ErikMesoy> | I suppose it mustn't, but I'm still curious about the general question of whether Python has means of restricting arguments to a function other than by making assumptions about them. |
| 19:12 | <~Vornicus> | not really |
| 19:12 | <~Vornicus> | welcome to duck typing |
| 19:14 | < ErikMesoy> | Duck typing it is, then. |
| 19:15 | < AnnoDomini> | Duck duck goose! |
| 19:20 | < RichyB> | Down in the C API, all functions in Python are PyObject* foo(PyObject *self, PyObject *args); |
| 19:20 | < RichyB> | Duck-typing is pretty much the only thing you can do with that one-size-fits-all interface. |
| 19:21 | < RichyB> | That's strictly true for CPython, much less so for IronPython, PyPy, Jython. |
| 19:22 | < RichyB> | IMNSHO, much of Python's design was influenced very heavily by what was easiest to implement in the CPython interpreter rather than what would be the best thing to use. ;P |
| 19:25 | <&McMartin> | I happen to disagree, but. |
| 19:29 | < RichyB> | Well, it varies. |
| 19:30 | < RichyB> | Explicit self, syntactic whitespace (?!), the way that the method resolution order works, most of the language is really carefully thought out and you can see the discussion chains on all of the PEPs. |
| 19:32 | <&McMartin> | Right |
| 19:32 | <&McMartin> | My disagreement is less CPython specifically and more "OO in scripting-style languages tends towards duck typing IME" |
| 19:32 | < RichyB> | On the other hand, the interpreter itself is... primitive. |
| 19:34 | < RichyB> | and the GIL looks very much like it was originally an implementation detail, but now it's leaked into Python's semantics, and it turns out that "each python bytecode is an atomic operation" is part of the operation semantics of Python now probably forever. |
| 19:34 | < RichyB> | *operational semantics |
| 19:37 | < RichyB> | The big thing that I'd say was leaked out because it was easier is the fact that the CPython API is just the interpreter's guts directly exposed, which makes reimplementing the CPython API in PyPy really hard. |
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| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | I guess I should ask this here |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | I've had to start contending with web applications |
| 21:31 | <&McMartin> | This means I've now been exposed to REST. |
| 21:32 | <@TheWatcher> | My sympathies |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | Is this just a buzzwordification of "how to not be a shithead"? |
| 21:32 | <&McMartin> | Or was it a big deal at first? |
| 21:33 | <@TheWatcher> | As far as I'm aware, it's the former |
| 21:37 | <@TheWatcher> | (my understanding of it is that it's really just a loose architectural description embodying best practices of using pre-existing protocols and practices wrapped in an acronym to make managers sound like they know what they're talking about) |
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| 23:38 | <&McMartin> | (Yes, though I remember enough of the late Web 1.0 days to know that it is a good discipline to force on people; as such, I find it less obnoxious than 'POJOs' |
| 23:38 | <&McMartin> | (Which served a similar purpose but are more blatant about being a bullshit cover) |
| 23:43 | <~Vornicus> | heh |
| --- Log closed Fri Sep 14 00:00:01 2012 |