| --- Log opened Thu Jul 05 00:00:16 2012 |
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| 00:21 | < ToxicFrog_> | Yay, ZNC working |
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| 00:29 | <&McMartin> | Woo |
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| 00:30 | <&McMartin> | celticminstrel: As for death to sliding block puzzles, my first major Haskell application I wrote to automatically solve the Klotski variants in Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box, because seriously, fuck that noise |
| 00:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | 15-puzzles and their kin somehow perfectly hit that spot where they're incredibly tedious and frustrating, but not challenging in any way. |
| 00:33 | <&McMartin> | These are Klotski and their kin, not the 15-puzzle. |
| 00:33 | <&McMartin> | They're markedly different genera. |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | Klotski's cousins are like Traffic Jam. |
| 00:34 | < celticminstrel> | Oh hey, Rush Hour fits this definition. |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | In particular, their success condition tends to be based on the location of *one specific* block instead of all blocks, so it's more, hm. Spacial? |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 00:34 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, it has many names. |
| 00:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know Klotski as Traffic Jam, yeah |
| 00:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Both Klotski and 15 are "sliding block puzzles" but I usually take it to mean just the latter |
| 00:35 | < celticminstrel> | I made one of these in Graphics class. |
| 00:35 | <&jerith> | I can use Klotski and friends as an occupy-my-hands-and-eyes-while-leaving-my-brain-mostly-free activity. |
| 00:35 | <&jerith> | N-puzzles... not so much. |
| 00:35 | <&McMartin> | Yeah, I've never actually learned the algorithm for the latter. |
| 00:36 | <&McMartin> | Klotski falls to a simple breadth-first search, but actually making that *happen* is an interesting enough question that it's one of my stock interview questions for algorithm/data structure design. |
| 00:36 | <&jerith> | I should try that sometime, actually. |
| 00:36 | <&McMartin> | It's not much harder than a Sudoku solver but it's IMO a lot more fun to do. |
| 00:37 | <&jerith> | The final project in my AI class a while back was to write a 4x4x4 tic-tac-toe variant AI. |
| 00:38 | <&jerith> | The interesting bit was normalising the board layout to (vastly!) reduce the problem space. |
| 00:41 | | * McMartin actually looks up his Haskell program for this. |
| 00:41 | <&McMartin> | 87 lines, apparently, and 18 of those were for hardcoding the specific puzzles. |
| 00:42 | <&McMartin> | However, it's making some assumptions that hold for Klotski specifically but not for some of the expansions they did later (multiple target blocks, non-rectangular pieces, non-rectangular boards) |
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| 03:43 | | * ToxicFrog sads at Clojure |
| 03:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: have you done any parsing in Clojure, and if so, what would you recommend? |
| 03:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | It doesn't come with any sort of parsing library of its own, and of the three third-party ones I can find, fnparse is unmaintained and doesn't work on 1.3+, parsley is way overkill for my needs (it's a high-performance incremental reparser for use in syntax-hilighting editors), and parser is not just unmaintained but entirely missing. |
| 03:47 | <&McMartin> | I haven't made any attempts at it, no |
| 03:48 | <~Vornicus> | Also the rest of the bug bin there is a wretched hive |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | Yes, though some of that is due to a bug system reset |
| 03:49 | <&McMartin> | It looked better during the beta for GMHTML5 |
| 03:50 | <~Vornicus> | I feel like a god among slime molds, describing exactly what went wrong and how and posting a working example. |
| 03:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. There's Parsatron, which has an entertaining README and is actively maintained. |
| 03:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | "The choice, char, between and many functions you see are themselves combinators, provided gratis by the library. Some, like choice, many, and between, take parsers as arguments and return you a new one, wholly different, but exhibiting eerily familiar behavior. Some, like char, take less exotic input (in this case, a humble character) and return more basic parsers, that perform what is asked of them without hestitation or spite." |
| 03:52 | <~Vornicus> | That took me too many retries to read, as I resolved symbols |
| 03:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | It's very, very minimalist, though. |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | Parser combinators are kind of the shiznit though |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | This is true |
| 03:59 | | * Vornicus considers. I wonder... |
| 03:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | I am however used to having slightly more to work with |
| 03:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ie, not having to implement (token) in terms of (char) |
| 04:00 | <~Vornicus> | ...nope, gondola goes to the moon if I use absolute. |
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| 04:00 | <~Vornicus> | er, relative |
| 04:01 | <&McMartin> | TO THE MOON |
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| 04:11 | <~Vornicus> | Which is also befuddling because technically the paths run right into each other. I suspect the bugs with negative path speeds go further than I went looking. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 05 13:58:40 2012 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jul 05 13:58:44 2012 |
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| 14:26 | < gnolam> | ... that was fast |
| 14:26 | < gnolam> | First batch of parts has arrived. |
| 14:31 | <@TheWatcher> | What're you making? |
| 14:31 | < gnolam> | Still a helicopter. |
| 14:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Ah, either I missed that, or my swiss-cheese brain lost it >.< |
| 14:33 | < gnolam> | (Or, well, the actual helicopter is built by someone else. I'm building the payload.) |
| 14:47 | < Noah> | gnolam: Lego? Or, like, fo' really realz? |
| 14:49 | < gnolam> | Noah: For real. An RC drone that has to be operational at the end of September. |
| 14:50 | < Noah> | Controlled by traditional RC equipment, or by something cool like an android device with live cam feed? |
| 14:51 | < gnolam> | Live cam and sensor feed yes, android no. We can't assume working 3G/4G coverage. |
| 14:52 | < Noah> | I figured it could be ad-hoc |
| 14:53 | < Noah> | But that would be a lot of extra programming for something that I'm sure already exists pretty standard in the RC flight market |
| 14:54 | < gnolam> | In a real situation, you can probably assume that the phone networks are either down, swamped or just plain not available (too far out in the field). |
| 14:54 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 14:56 | < gnolam> | (We're figuring the last one of those for the exercise in September) |
| 14:59 | < Noah> | Being swamped would be enough, I get like over 1000ms ping in Knoxville |
| 14:59 | < Noah> | Around 180 here in Kodak, but even that is kinda high for flying a big expensive helicopter |
| 15:00 | | * TheWatcher vaguely wonders whether it'd actually be possible to make a working lego 'copter or similar device |
| 15:01 | < Noah> | You might have to glue some pieces to a frame of sorts, then build of that. I'm sure it's possible |
| 15:02 | < Noah> | But not in pure lego, you could make something with rotors that spin fairly slowly I think, but it wouldn'y fly |
| 15:03 | < Noah> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DO2y29_Lank |
| 15:04 | < Noah> | I think that's pure lego, that's pretty fast rotation for lego motors, but not nearly fast enough for flight obviously |
| 15:05 | < Noah> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUOySOWqTZc - Actually has some flight controlls, but still pure lego, and can't fly |
| 15:09 | < Noah> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlgQzGO3gwg - Flies, but with actually RC copter parts |
| 15:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, unsurprisingly seems to struggle a bit |
| 15:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Lego's probably just too heavy for that, really |
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| 15:24 | <~Vornicus> | If you need something with high strength or low weight, lego isn't the way to go. |
| 15:40 | < iospace> | knex? :P |
| 15:40 | < iospace> | or however it's spelt |
| 16:10 | <~Vornicus> | Still. You don't build strong stuff out of toy plastic. |
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| 16:12 | < iospace> | :P |
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| 16:44 | <@Alek> | k'nex but yeah |
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| 17:47 | | * Vornicus floons |
| 17:50 | | * ToxicFrog combinates Vornicus |
| 17:50 | <~Vornicus> | halp |
| 17:54 | < ToxicFrog> | Clojure is kind of giving me the Lua not-enough-libraries feeling. |
| 17:54 | < ToxicFrog> | And calling into Java isn't nearly as seamless as it is in Scala. |
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| 18:08 | <~Vornicus> | This freaking path bug has stonewalled me |
| 18:14 | | * Vornicus fights with it a bit, gets a workaround: manually set the path position and speed after using path_start, and make sure that path_start uses a positive value. |
| 18:15 | | Number3 is now known as ShellNinja |
| 18:26 | | * Vornicus should see if he can get the gondola to cross path endings without pausing now. |
| 18:27 | <~Vornicus> | Well, okay, no, that's more polish. |
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| 18:36 | <~Vornicus> | but making sure that the gondola is always on the screen would be good and that I need to art a bit fore |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 05 18:51:32 2012 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jul 05 18:51:36 2012 |
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| 19:50 | <~Vornicus> | Right. Art corrected, now I need to build the duck paths. |
| 19:55 | <~Vornicus> | Which I don't think need to be paths |
| 21:32 | | * Vornicus fiddles with stuff for ducks. |
| 21:41 | | * Vornicus can't seem to get art off it very easily |
| 21:49 | <~Vornicus> | if I could, like, find a way to read the sprite sheets that'd be really nice. |
| 21:50 | <&Derakon> | What are you trying to read? |
| 21:51 | <~Vornicus> | I've got a commodore 64 game "ducks ahoy", and I'm trying to get sprites out of it so I can use them for art |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | Ah. |
| 21:51 | <&Derakon> | I doubt there's a "sprite sheet" as such, then. |
| 21:52 | <~Vornicus> | well no, I'll get individual sprites as 64-byte chunks, but I don't know how to get at them. |
| 21:54 | <~Vornicus> | or rather how to find them among the memory. But that's probably harder than making my own art. |
| 21:55 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 22:00 | <~Vornicus> | but that's a pain in the ass too, especially because of my pickiness |
| 22:08 | <&McMartin> | It's probably easier to get the sprites from screencaps/recordings tbqh |
| 22:09 | <~Vornicus> | screencaps freeze the video on my emulator. |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | Mmm |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | Does the emulator have a memory-dump mode? |
| 22:10 | <&McMartin> | You might be able to find the VIC-II's sprite pointers. ISTR those are in a fixed location. |
| 22:11 | <~Vornicus> | I found a video record move |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> | Now I have a 335MB video that lasts maybe two minutes. |
| 22:12 | | * ToxicFrog pokes McMartin until server-socket falls out |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | ? |
| 22:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh, I'm just having clojure library woes |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> | One minute six seconds. |
| 22:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Nothing I actually want to use has been updated since 1.2 |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> | ...that vlc thinks has no video in it. FAILCANNON |
| 22:12 | <~Vornicus> | (seriously it's black) |
| 22:12 | <&McMartin> | Try WMP |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | But VLC is unusable for me anyway -_- |
| 22:13 | <~Vornicus> | I busted WMP trying to update it |
| 22:13 | | iospace is now known as io|gone |
| 22:13 | <~Vornicus> | because I have a pirate version of winxp, because none of the three CDs and five CD keys worked together. |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | Aha |
| 22:13 | <&McMartin> | Did you capture with FRAPS? |
| 22:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: what does VLC say that the codec information is? |
| 22:13 | <~Vornicus> | the internal video record button for the emulator |
| 22:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Odds are it's some custom lossless format that needs to be converted. |
| 22:14 | <~Vornicus> | codec "8 bits greyscale" |
| 22:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Er |
| 22:15 | < ToxicFrog> | What's the fourcc? |
| 22:15 | <~Vornicus> | GREY |
| 22:15 | <~Vornicus> | Which is befuddling as the emulator is in color. |
| 22:15 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: specifically, I want to use fnparse for parsing and server-socket for TCP serverizing, neither of which is actually maintained anymore. |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | Is this VICE you're using here? |
| 22:15 | <~Vornicus> | ccs64 |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | CCS64 *does* have a memory monitor mode |
| 22:15 | <&McMartin> | But you should consider using VICE and FRAPS >_> |
| 22:22 | | * Vornicus tries to figure out if VICE is actually working |
| 22:23 | <~Vornicus> | it does not appear to be actually running the program. It's just sitting there after "RUN" |
| 22:23 | <~Vornicus> | oh there it goes |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | VICE correctly models the C1541 disk speed -_- |
| 22:26 | <&McMartin> | (This is important because that disk drive is also a CPU co-processor of equal power to the main board) |
| 22:27 | | * TheWatcher finally gets around to plotting out the stations that project releases have taken so far in his mornington crescent game |
| --- Log closed Thu Jul 05 22:29:23 2012 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jul 05 22:29:38 2012 |
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| 22:31 | <~Vornicus> | colors are different. |
| --- Log closed Thu Jul 05 22:32:46 2012 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jul 05 22:33:08 2012 |
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| 22:34 | <&McMartin> | That's configurable, but bear in mind that these things were transmitted phase shifts to a phosphor screen, not RGB values. |
| 22:34 | <~Vornicus> | There is a surprisingly large number of sprites, if my eyes don't fool me |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | I'm now kind of curious |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | Do you mean frames or "active at once"? |
| 22:35 | <&McMartin> | Remember, the C64 did have a true bitmapped background, but it was hard to use |
| 22:39 | <~Vornicus> | different frames |
| 22:39 | <~Vornicus> | Sorry, I should have said "a surprisingly long sprite strip" to be more accurate |
| 22:39 | <&McMartin> | Ah, yeah |
| 22:40 | <&McMartin> | Only 8 sprites at once, but you can do jackassery with scanline interrupts to display more |
| 22:42 | <~Vornicus> | I don't think I've seen more than like 6 at once in this game |
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| 22:48 | | * Vornicus pokes at fraps. Actually start recording, please |
| 22:49 | <&McMartin> | Make sure VICE is in OpenGL displaymore or w/e |
| 22:49 | <~Vornicus> | RIght, got that |
| 22:49 | <~Vornicus> | fraps knows that that window has a video context in it and has applied its fps overlay |
| 22:50 | <~Vornicus> | But I haven't managed to get it to save a movie. |
| 22:51 | <~Vornicus> | ther it goes. |
| 22:53 | <~Vornicus> | oh that's lovely. |
| 22:53 | <&McMartin> | Success? |
| 22:54 | <~Vornicus> | victoly |
| 22:55 | <~Vornicus> | Now let's see what I can extract from this |
| 23:15 | | * Vornicus pokes vlc, give me frame advance toys. |
| 23:16 | < sshine> | hmm... some spambots analyse website content and Markov-generate spam based on it... that's pretty neat. |
| 23:25 | <~Vornicus> | but yeah, the full vertical movement strip for ducks is /8 frames/ |
| 23:28 | <&McMartin> | O< |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jul 06 00:00:02 2012 |