code logs -> 2012 -> Fri, 27 Apr 2012< code.20120426.log - code.20120428.log >
--- Log opened Fri Apr 27 00:00:26 2012
00:08
< Alek>
actually, aren't things opposites if they're opposite in all respects except for one crucial detail?
00:08
< Alek>
as in, type?
00:09
< Alek>
actually, never mind. that's another definition of opposite, and there's more.
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01:10
<&McMartin>
Ha ha ha
01:10
<&McMartin>
"Now I know why people pronounce 'SQL' 'sequel': because sequels usually suck."
01:13
<&jerith>
I do it because it's a syllable shorter than "ess cue hell".
01:14
< Tarinaky>
I say Ess Cue Ell because it makes some people angry.
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01:51
< celticminstrel>
I pronounce it by letters because my first exposure to the word was in text form.
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02:19
< Namegduf>
I do the same as celticminstrel by default, but I am unsure whether I ought to start catching myself
02:20 * Vornicus pokes vaguely at his camera control.
02:20
<~Vornicus>
I have no idea at all how to design this
02:46
<~Vornicus>
Okay. Camera cares what room it's looking at
02:47
<~Vornicus>
Room has all its entities contained therein.
02:52
<~Vornicus>
Camera's gotta be a singleto--not if I want to do transitions other than quick cut or blackout
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03:33
<&Derakon>
What's giving you trouble, Vorn?
03:33
<&Derakon>
Pass the camera instance to your render code.
03:38
<~Vornicus>
That right there. Man I feel like a derpcannon
03:38
<&Derakon>
Heh.
03:38
<&Derakon>
Happens to the best of us.
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04:48 * Rhamphoryncus picks a code name for his openttd clone: yasttc. Can anybody guess what it stands for? :)
04:53
<~Vornicus>
Stupid?
04:53
<~Vornicus>
well. Yet Another Stupid Transport Tycoon Clone
04:54
<~Vornicus>
but I figured all those other letters were too obvious to bother answering the question for.
05:06 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out
05:20
< Rhamphoryncus>
yup
05:22
< Rhamphoryncus>
I'm thinking I'll start by seeing how badly I kill the performance by having as much detail as I want
05:29
<~Vornicus>
Don't forget your spline-smoothed terrain
05:49
< Rhamphoryncus>
hmm. Up close perhaps
05:51
< Rhamphoryncus>
I was considering storing different strata to use when tunnelling andmining
05:52
< Rhamphoryncus>
Which, for a 8192x8192x8192 map would mean.. half a trillion points
05:56
< Rhamphoryncus>
Hrm. Actually, that just underscores the importance of using the disk to store most of the map data. A couple gigs of ram is about the sane limit, but disk is much more open ended. It's fine to start out with a 20 meg map that balloons to 500 megs on disk after tons of play
05:56 * Rhamphoryncus suddenly worries he's going to recreate minecraft
05:56
< Noah>
You're recreating minecraft
05:56
< Rhamphoryncus>
I've thought about LoD for a minecraft clone too
05:57
< Noah>
Also, be sure it reads and writes at the same time while rendering that way it's nice a choppy
05:57
< Rhamphoryncus>
heh
05:57
< Rhamphoryncus>
Yeah, there's Right Ways and Wrong Ways to handle that
05:57
< Noah>
I'm pretty sure Minecraft is doing the Very Wrong Way
05:58
< Rhamphoryncus>
Minecraft is.. well no, I was going to say the PHP way, but it's not *that* bad
05:58
< Noah>
But you thought it
05:59
< Rhamphoryncus>
There's a lot of fucked up stuff but there's a lot they do right too
05:59
< Noah>
I mean, there was a post on Notch's blog about he wasn't that great of a programmer and I -swear- I heard my harddrive screech "duh"
05:59
< Rhamphoryncus>
Some of the ugliest aspects, ie the 16x16 textures, are intentional stylistic choices
06:00
< Rhamphoryncus>
heh yup, but he's not the only one working there
06:00
< Noah>
Well, now Jeb is lead programmer I believe
06:00
< Rhamphoryncus>
yeah
06:00
< Noah>
And Notch is the "my company made me this throne of money" guy
06:00
< Rhamphoryncus>
Notch's influence is being diluted as the team grows
06:02
< Noah>
Let's just hope he hasn't irrepairable hosed Minecraft for Jeb and the rest of the team
06:02
< Noah>
Well
06:02
< Noah>
It's in Java, so nevermind
06:02
<&McMartin>
I keep thinking Jeb, The Kerbal
06:02
<&McMartin>
Very, very strange mental images, that
06:03
< Noah>
No, Jeb the Not Notch.
06:03
< Rhamphoryncus>
okay, more realistic for a moment here. The strata doesn't have to move. Subsidence could, but that can be ignored. New land can be deposited as old is removed, but that's limited to only a few options, and even that I can ignore and only have one. Then there's the surface which needs different options (grass, and, rock, etc)
06:04
< Noah>
Is it too far in development to just have everything made of cheese?
06:04
< Rhamphoryncus>
Yeah, sorry, I've already committed to the non-cheese route
06:05
< Noah>
Or clay? A claymation minecraft would be sweet
06:05
< Rhamphoryncus>
heh
06:05
< Noah>
And probably too much for this laptop
06:05
< Rhamphoryncus>
So all I need to store is topsoil type and depth, fill type and depth, and.. well, strata is static so I don't need to store it at all
06:06
< Rhamphoryncus>
Probably should skip fill type, just to keep things sane
06:07
< Rhamphoryncus>
But the point is it's only 2d, not 3d
06:07
< Noah>
Oh, so you're making Terraria
06:08
< Rhamphoryncus>
No, an openttd clone
06:08
< Noah>
What's wrong with openttd?
06:08
< Rhamphoryncus>
.. have you seen ANY of my rants in here? What *isn't* wrong with openttd?
06:08
< Noah>
I usually tune you out, or go play openttd
06:09
< Rhamphoryncus>
heh
06:09
< Rhamphoryncus>
Anyway, big difference: I want the maps to be on a much bigger scale
06:10
< Noah>
Like, Spore big?
06:10 * Vornicus gives Rhamphoryncus Iowa.
06:10
< Rhamphoryncus>
not quite heh
06:10
< Rhamphoryncus>
Just imagine that each openttd tile is broken down into 16x16
06:10
<~Vornicus>
(where every overpass comes with a pond)
06:10
< Rhamphoryncus>
So you really do snake your rails through a mountain
06:11
< Rhamphoryncus>
I'm also starting out as 3d using opengl
06:11
< Noah>
Yea, now I just want to play openttd now
06:11
< Noah>
Rhamphoryncus: Great, now my laptop can't play it
06:12
< Noah>
OH
06:12
< Noah>
Make it ascii, like dwarffortress!
06:12
< Rhamphoryncus>
I do have some ideas for super-low-end sprite mode
06:12
<&McMartin>
DF is OpenGL.
06:12
< Rhamphoryncus>
No :P
06:12
< Noah>
McMartin: Shhh
06:12 * Noah makes ASCII craft
06:13
< Noah>
ASCIICraft even
06:14
< Rhamphoryncus>
I'd still use opengl, but be a fixed dimetric with a limited number of rotations and superfluous animation disabled. The sprites would be created on the fly.. with a cache that's really a cache, unlike openttd
06:15
< Noah>
I had an idea for a game where instead of a procedurally generated world coming up around you, everything is a straight up void, and it's just you on this floating island. And you have to craft the shrines that form land around them, and it's part of the game mechanic to balance the biomes that one doesn't over take the other, flora and fauna included
06:15
< Tarinaky>
Ah crud. I've forgotten all the inequalities stuff for mathematical analysis :/
06:16
< Noah>
perhaps played in a god-mode perspective, and then you bring humans into the mix and see if they can thrive in your environment
06:16
< Rhamphoryncus>
Openttd performance hint: Go into advanced/display/whatever and turn the max zoom in from 4x down to 2x or 1x. This limits the amount of scaled sprites it generates on load attempts to cram into the fixed-size "cache"
06:16
< Noah>
Yea, I turn that max zoom down for convience
06:16
< Noah>
convenience...
06:17
< Noah>
Blah, why can't minecraft have inline spelling suggestions
06:17
< Noah>
Minecraft? mIRC.
06:17
< Tarinaky>
What do I do with an inequality of the form |x||x+6|?
06:17
< Rhamphoryncus>
It's stupidly effective because the cache fills up before a sprite gets in there than that sprite won't be cached. Ever. Every rendering gets a new one scaled
06:18
<~Vornicus>
Tarinaky: is there supposed to be an inequality symbol between the two absolute values?
06:18
< Tarinaky>
Err
06:18
< Tarinaky>
What do I do with an inequality of the form |x||x+6|<3?
06:18
<~Vornicus>
Oh I see.
06:19
<~Vornicus>
Uh, what I usually do is do piecewise stuff. How's it act for x between -inf and -6? between -6 and 0? between 0 and inf?
06:19
< Noah>
This is why I hold on to all my math texts
06:20
< Noah>
Tarinaky: http://goo.gl/qjNku Does this help any?
06:20
<~Vornicus>
then handle those three situations separaetely
06:20
< Tarinaky>
Noah: Not really, it doesn't tell me how it got the answer.
06:21
< Noah>
I was hoping it could jar your memory, that's usually enough for me. Unfortunately, I haven't done too much inequality math
06:21
<~Vornicus>
Then you have a piecewise function
06:21
< Tarinaky>
Vornicus: I don't really see how that helps >.<
06:21 * Tarinaky gaaahs at his inability.
06:21
<~Vornicus>
Okay okay, #math
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09:48 You're now known as TheWatcher
09:56
<&McMartin>
Woo, conditionals and If statements seem to be working
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09:58
<@TheWatcher>
\o/
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09:59
<&McMartin>
Once I get while and repeat loops working, it'll be time to move on to the next phase of actual code generation.
09:59
<&McMartin>
Well, the Quad-to-6502 code.
10:00
<&McMartin>
I'll need to actually design an ABI soon -_-
10:10 * TheWatcher ponders
10:13
<@TheWatcher>
I can see why people like python, but looking at this code, the lack of braces still plays holy hell with my head :/
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11:26 * TheWatcher vaguely stabs the pyside developers
11:27
<@TheWatcher>
There are 2 or 3 different versions of each Qt installer for windows, it might be helpful if you either specify which one is needed, or that it doesn't matter, damnit.
11:27
< Tarinaky>
I used the latest version.
11:28
< Tarinaky>
So it probably doesn't matter.
11:28
<@TheWatcher>
Well
11:28
< Tarinaky>
It even worked! (eventually)
11:29
<@TheWatcher>
pyside tells you which /version/ of Qt you need (say PySide-1.1.0qt474.win32-py2.7.exe expects qt 4.7.4 ... but is that the mingw or VS2008 build?)
11:30
<@TheWatcher>
(and seriously, ffs this was all of "emerge -aD pyside" on my linux system. It should not involve this much arsing around)
11:32
< Tarinaky>
Don't the mingw and vs2008 builds support the same api?
11:34
<@TheWatcher>
API? Yes. but I don't know - because they haven't sodding documented it - if they are fully binary compatible with what pyside expects.
11:35
<@TheWatcher>
Theoretically, probably. But I long ago gave up assuming that anything "theoretially" will actually work on windows
11:40
< Tarinaky>
http://www.altdevblogaday.com/2012/04/26/functional-programming-in-c/
11:55
<@TheWatcher>
... and now I find that pyside actually includes the qt libs it needs. of course.
11:55
<@TheWatcher>
Document your fucking shit people
12:03
< Tarinaky>
myTurd:Shit
12:04
< Tarinaky>
getMyTurd():Shit, setMyTurd(Shit), isMyTurdSmelly():boolean... etc...
12:19
<@TheWatcher>
:P
12:20
<@TheWatcher>
I see no documentation
12:20
<@TheWatcher>
Damnit
12:20
<@TheWatcher>
;)
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14:34 * jerith stabs nosetests in ALL THE SOFT PLACES.
14:34
<&jerith>
You're a unit test runner.
14:34
<&jerith>
Your job is to find the test methods, run them, and tell me what the result was.
14:35
<&jerith>
Part of this requires you to tell me which test you're talking about.
14:35
<&jerith>
Now, tests have names.
14:36
<&jerith>
"foo.bar.test_baz.BazTestCase.test_widget_sprongling" is the name of one such test.
14:37
<&jerith>
I, being the kind of person who likes to explain what the test is actually testing, tend to write docstrings for my tests.
14:37
<&jerith>
For example, "A widget can be sprongled in any of the four cardinal directions."
14:50
<&jerith>
Oh, I wandered off mid-rant.
14:51
<&jerith>
Anyways, nosetests decides the first line of the docstring is a much better name for the test than the actual name.
14:52
<&jerith>
So when the test fails, it says "some random text about the test" failed, and doesn't give me any indication of where in my codebase the damned thing is.
14:52
<&jerith>
Requiring me to grep for it.
14:52
<&jerith>
And then there are the copy/paste tests.
14:53
<&jerith>
Or similar tests for different things.
14:53
<&jerith>
Which have indistinguishable first-line-of-docstrings, and therefore leave me guessing as to which one actually failed.
14:55
<@TheWatcher>
... >.<
14:55
<@TheWatcher>
That's pretty shit
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16:00
<&jerith>
TheWatcher: It isn't /that/ bad, as long as all your tests pass.
16:01
<&jerith>
But I'm in the middle of a pretty substantial rewrite, which means most of my tests are failing.
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18:52
< Noah>
This diet 7up already tastes pretty lame, but with a BC power, I think it's going to put hairs on my chest. Like steelwool.
19:07 * ShellNinja needs to make a shell script or something that randomly renames files within a directory to <somenumber>.mp3. How would I go about constructing it?
19:10 Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz]
19:11
< Noah>
Dunno as a shell script.
19:14
< Noah>
So I had an idea to make a python IRC bot that does Texas Hold'em
19:14
< Noah>
Then someone suggested Mahjong at another channel, and now I'm conflicted
19:15
< Noah>
?
19:15
< Noah>
And that do
19:15
< Noah>
Don't work
19:18
< Noah>
So if I wanted to do tiles, everyone would have to use a font that had the unicode for them
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19:42
< Noah>
Thoughts on Google Drive?
19:42
<@Tamber>
"Meh"
19:43
<@Tamber>
More completely: "Meh, it's just dropbox with your favourite data-mining corp."
19:43
< Noah>
Because I've been using dropbox for so long, I already have more space than google drive
19:44
< Noah>
Of course, if I weren't mooching, then goole gives me 200GB vs 50GB* with dropbox
19:45
< Noah>
Although dropbox seems to increase what refers give you if you're paying, up to +32GB
19:46
< Noah>
Still, 82GB != 200GB last I checked
19:46
<&McMartin>
TheWatcher: Man, you have been in Perl too long >_>
19:46
<&McMartin>
C++ is by default not binary compatible even between different versions of the same compiler.
19:47
<&McMartin>
If py2exe is any indicator you will need the MSVS2008 binaries, since I notice that py2exe'd applications require that runtime.
19:48
<&McMartin>
(And yeah, Windows is pretty bad about this compared to a good Linux distro, but that's because there's no such thing as "a Windows Distro" in the sense of "we make sure all the important applications and libraries play well together"
19:50
< Noah>
Heh
19:51 * Noah writes google to ask that 5GB of his email space be moved to his Drive
19:54
< Eri>
The gmail space is garbage, as a metric
19:55
< Eri>
It's the same way a bank has millions of dollars in it's possession
19:55
< Eri>
Only because not everyone is withdrawing it. If everyone with a gmail account were to max out their inbox, that number would drop
19:55
< Eri>
Essentially, stealing from Peter to pay Paul
19:56
< Noah>
Everyone won't
19:56
< Noah>
But I could
19:56
< Noah>
But not with 25MB emails
19:58
< Eri>
...huh. That's weird. Signed in to gmail, and it stopped at the redirect and wanted me to open a binary
19:58
< Noah>
Huh
20:03
< Eri>
Hah, google support
20:03
< Eri>
"gmail prompts for a download, and I can't access my email" "Hi everyone, sorry for the frustration we may reach out to some of you by email to get some more detailed info"
20:04
< Noah>
Wtg google ninja
20:08
< Noah>
Heh, my dropbox takes like 2 days to sync over my cellphone for all the crap I have in it, Drive syncs in like 2 minutes since I have almost nothing in it
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21:33
< maoranma>
Woah, what's this, Skydrive gives me a free upgrade 25GB, and they have an app now?
21:34 maoranma is now known as Noah
21:35
< Noah>
No android app, but I can live with that
21:38
< Noah>
Sweet, ITT uses Hotmail for the email, so I can use that now, and keep all my crap for school there
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22:39 * TheWatcher eyes this css, has never seen this before
22:40
<@TheWatcher>
#idA .classA .classB > li > a { .... }
22:40
<~Vornicus>
hooray, selectors
22:41
<@TheWatcher>
Child selectors, apparently. Fair enough.
22:41
< Noah>
Witchcraft!
22:42 * TheWatcher applies a 0x to Noah
22:43
< Noah>
Noooo, I'm base 16 now~
22:43
<@TheWatcher>
Yes, I hexed you!
22:44
< Noah>
Now I'm 1A. I can't drink.
22:46
< Noah>
Unless it's heximal, then I'm 42
22:46
<~Vornicus>
yeah, selectors have a lot of surprisingly powerful tools in them that most people don't use
22:48
<@TheWatcher>
S'good to know, could come in useful certainly.
22:55
< celticminstrel>
Heximal?
22:57
<@TheWatcher>
base 6
22:57
<@TheWatcher>
(although I've usually heard it called Senary, but anyway)
22:59
<&McMartin>
(Hendenary for base 16~)
23:34
< Noah>
At least it's not all ones and zeros like in duoimal.
--- Log closed Sat Apr 28 00:00:45 2012
code logs -> 2012 -> Fri, 27 Apr 2012< code.20120426.log - code.20120428.log >

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