| --- Log opened Tue Apr 03 00:00:06 2012 |
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| 01:06 | | * Vornicus arrives home. |
| 01:07 | <&McMartin> | Hm, 3.3 kernel is out for Fedora |
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| 01:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Ergh. My math skills are failing me. |
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| 01:46 | | * Vornicus offers his math skills instead? |
| 01:47 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm working on a different way of doing cargo payments in openttd. My idea is for each cargo type to have a different speed threshold curve. Coal or oil is relatively flat; short distances and long distances want fairly similar average speeds. Passengers would be the opposite, liking buses for short trips but needing aircraft for long trips |
| 01:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So I need to penalize if below the threshold and have decreasing returns over the threshold |
| 01:49 | <~Vornicus> | Decreasing marginal returns? |
| 01:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
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| 01:51 | <~Vornicus> | Okay so you're looking at payment rates that are proportional to distance / time, already, clearly |
| 01:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yup |
| 01:52 | <~Vornicus> | So the payment rate based on average speed is already in there |
| 01:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Different distances will have different thresholds though |
| 01:53 | <~Vornicus> | That I'm not sure on. |
| 01:53 | <~Vornicus> | Thing is |
| 01:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | short = bus, medium = train, long = aircraft |
| 01:53 | <&McMartin> | Probably shouldn't call the variable short_bus, people will get the wrong idea |
| 01:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 01:54 | | * Vornicus thinks on ottd and how the world works. |
| 01:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm going for gameplay, not realisim |
| 01:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | realsimism |
| 01:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | imim |
| 01:55 | <~Vornicus> | Right, I'm thinking |
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| 01:56 | <~Vornicus> | The problem with linking in average speed to penalties is that your average speed explodes mightily as the years progress. |
| 01:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which means the distance that vehicle is capable of goes up |
| 01:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But I might scale with year too |
| 01:56 | <~Vornicus> | I'm not seeing that as an effect here. |
| 01:57 | <~Vornicus> | All I'm seeing is "payment rates explode", and there's no effect on the length of a reasonable run. |
| 01:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Two towns 100 tiles apart may have a threshold of 50 km/h while 200 tiles would want 75 km/h |
| 01:58 | <~Vornicus> | Oh I see. |
| 01:58 | <~Vornicus> | You're changing the relationship between time and distance and payment rates. |
| 01:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yes |
| 01:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And all I have to work with is time, distance, and the cargo type |
| 02:02 | <~Vornicus> | One moment, allow me to fiddle. |
| 02:02 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I also only get a range of around 0..49 :( |
| 02:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which later gets multiplied by quantity and a per-cargo-type constant |
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| 02:03 | <~Vornicus> | Okay. |
| 02:04 | | * Rhamphoryncus isn't sure if that range limit is going to make this infeasible |
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| 02:09 | <~Vornicus> | I don't think it will. THis 0 to 49 is built in the real game from the distance and time, right? |
| 02:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's the callback's return value |
| 02:11 | <~Vornicus> | Right. |
| 02:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | range of -12748..12748, which is then multiplied by the constant, then divided by 256 |
| 02:12 | <~Vornicus> | that's a really weird range. |
| 02:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yes, there's multiple stages of stupid involved |
| 02:13 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | it's a wrapper around something else that's limited to.. 7EFFFF. Note the E |
| 02:13 | <~Vornicus> | wtf |
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| 02:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oops. 7EFF |
| 02:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | NML is the worst language I have ever worked with. Srsly. Note that I have never *worked* with brainfuck. |
| 02:14 | < Rhamphoryncus> | perl? php? javascript? qbasic? Not even in the same league. |
| 02:14 | <~Vornicus> | nml? |
| 02:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Just one of the many pieces of crack involved in openttd |
| 02:15 | <&McMartin> | QBASIC honestly isn't that bad |
| 02:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Add gwbasic, bash scripting, batch files, and some form of lisp to that |
| 02:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | assembly.. even hex editing. All superior |
| 02:17 | <~Vornicus> | I actually kind of like js. |
| 02:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Brainfuck would be harder to use, but.. at least it's coherent in its derangedness. |
| 02:17 | <&McMartin> | JS has a number of unusually good features |
| 02:18 | | * McMartin also has a soft spot for Scheme. |
| 02:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Sure. Redeeming qualities, despite the wtf ones |
| 02:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | QBASIC is my favorite dialect of assembly~ |
| 02:20 | <&McMartin> | QBASIC has stack local variables, man. |
| 02:20 | <&McMartin> | Nobody *used* them. |
| 02:20 | <&McMartin> | But it *had* them. |
| 02:20 | <&McMartin> | There are also apparently source-to-source QBASIC -> C++/SDL compilers. GORILLA.BAS lives! |
| 02:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | http://www.qb64.net/ |
| 02:22 | <&McMartin> | Note that the main page screenshot is also, of course, GORILLA.BAS |
| 02:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hrm. No, that 49 limit is crippling |
| 02:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The maximum distance is 4096, so even if you scale the constant to correspond exactly and not cut off at, say, 500, you'll only have 49 distinct values to work with |
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| 02:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | The remainder of 12748/256 only serves as noise when combined with the price constant, which itself is tweaked by inflation |
| 02:27 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: It's worth noting that I considered QB as my 8-bit dialect for this compiler project. |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | I rejected it because it was actually too rich a language. -_- |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | In other news, I realize why I haven't been making progress |
| 02:28 | <&McMartin> | Unfortunately, now I have to design two or three entirely different modules. |
| 02:29 | <&McMartin> | (CISC :argh:) |
| 02:29 | | * Rhamphoryncus wonders if he's messing it up |
| 02:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | If the constant is 256 then that should cancel out the divide, shouldn't it? |
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| 02:40 | <~Vornicus> | Sure, but you'll need a 32-bit value and I'm not actually sure you have it |
| 02:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I believe their temporaries are |
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| 02:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Let's see.. the ultimate C code is a 14 bit value (not including the sign bit), multiplied by the quantity, multiplied by the price constant, then divided by 8192 |
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| 02:49 | < Rhamphoryncus> | That's wrapped by NML which does *329/256 |
| 02:49 | <~Vornicus> | 8192 is pretty convenient there, being, uh, 2**13 |
| 02:50 | <~Vornicus> | What the fuck is this nml |
| 02:50 | < Rhamphoryncus> | nml is a language they invented for making newgrfs |
| 02:50 | <~Vornicus> | Who's this "they"? |
| 02:51 | < Rhamphoryncus> | openttd devs |
| 02:51 | <~Vornicus> | Sigh |
| 02:51 | | * Vornicus beats such devs with a "USE AN ESTABLISHED EMBEDDING LANGUAGE, DIPSHITS"-by-four |
| 02:52 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You'll need something bigger. |
| 02:52 | <&McMartin> | by-2**13 |
| 02:52 | <~Vornicus> | well played |
| 02:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Because of course nml is a separate project. Openttd itself is unaware of it. Instead it compiles down into GRF |
| 02:53 | <&McMartin> | GRF? |
| 02:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's a replacement for the NFO format, which is.. basically a half-assed sort-of-declarative assembly. Inspired by whatever hex/assembly garbage the original TT had |
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| 02:54 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I believe it's meant to mean a "graphic" file, ie extension graphics |
| 02:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | One of the more recent WTFs I ran into is that this pricing callback, and indeed most if not all callbacks, are declared in the "graphics" section |
| 02:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Presumably the original callbacks were for graphics overrides and they never bothered to rename the section. Despite making a new language that arbitrarily changes random things. |
| 03:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh, and I finally remembered one of the basic ways of doing decreasing returns.1-0.9**x |
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| 03:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So if I do 1 - 0.5**(speed*2/threshold) then at the threshold I get 75% of max |
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| 03:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | All I need is an exponent function.. my money is on hardcoding a lookup table :P |
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| 03:38 | < Noah> | So, this is weird |
| 03:38 | < Noah> | I'm on 32 bit linux now, since I keep running into architecture issues |
| 03:38 | < Noah> | And I get FCEUX, but it keeps crashing |
| 03:38 | < Noah> | So I run strace on it...and it refuses to crash... |
| 03:39 | <&McMartin> | Some kind of timing issue then, most likely, that strace is changing by being an interception -_- |
| 03:39 | < Noah> | So...is just running it under strace bad? |
| 03:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's a massive bodge, yes :) |
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| 03:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's a classic heisenbug |
| 03:42 | < Noah> | But...is it gonna cause fire or cancer or leak memory...? |
| 03:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It will fail when most inconvenient |
| 03:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | If you need the output today and will fix it tomorrow then sure, use strace |
| 03:43 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Otherwise.. no, I'd have to take away your programming license ;) |
| 03:43 | < Noah> | Well, I didn't program it, I'm just using it |
| 03:44 | < Noah> | I could care less if it's buggy, I'm just curious if it's going strace has any bad side effects |
| 03:45 | < Noah> | Though I guess I could pipe it out and have it email the dev repeatedly for fun |
| 03:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | No, it shouldn't |
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| 04:06 | | * Noah ponders getting window maker dock apps working in Xfce |
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| 04:24 | | * Rhamphoryncus generates the lookup table in python. Manages to get only 4 values due to rounding x_x |
| 04:26 | <~Vornicus> | D: |
| 04:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Just due to python's / doing integer division |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, careful with that, but |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | uh |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | Wait. |
| 04:30 | <~Vornicus> | How did you manage that |
| 04:30 | < symbol> | You could just change the 2 to 2.0, couldn't you? |
| 04:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yup |
| 04:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | for i in range(256): |
| 04:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | n = int((1.0 - 0.5**(i*2.0/128)) * 65536 * 4 / 3) |
| 04:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | print '\t%i: return %i;' % (i, n) |
| 04:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Looking at using 256 instead of 65536 and it's actually pretty good |
| 04:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's not until 105 that it becomes shallow enough to use an output value twice. That's with the *4/3 removed too, so it's 0..255 in and 0..255 out |
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| 05:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Lovely makefile (third-party newgrf, not openttd itself). Takes the same time from clean as it does after touching one file |
| 05:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But it's actually a good thing: the makefile breaks if I have a syntax error in my file (and no longer rebuilds it), so I have to run make clean every time |
| 05:12 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh sweet, internal nmlc error :P |
| 05:13 | <~Vornicus> | WHYYYY |
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| 05:14 | | * Derakon decides to check his Apache access logs, discovers a ton of requests for...an Apache how-to manual that's in his default webserver's documents for some reason. |
| 05:14 | <&Derakon> | Might as well shut that down. |
| 05:15 | <&Derakon> | Otherwise mostly just requests for forum avatars. Including the one I use on the DF forums, even though I haven't posted there in over a year now. |
| 05:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hmm. Is it still schadenfreude when the other person is suffering from being told what you're going through? |
| 05:17 | <~Vornicus> | No, that's vindication |
| 05:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Okay, there's a limit of 255 entries in the "switch".. which somehow equates to 253 plus a default |
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| 05:37 | < Noah> | GRRRRRR! I'm a dinosaur! |
| 05:38 | | * Derakon banishes Noah to the closet of obsolete technology. |
| 05:38 | | * celticminstrel hunts the Noahsaur with tranqs! |
| 05:39 | < Noah> | Oh come on. There'a google chrome pokeball icon, where the hell is my Xfce rattata? |
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| 06:04 | | * Rhamphoryncus_ squints at his own code. 20 + LOAD_TEMP(var_distance) / 10. With a distance of 0..4096 that gives me a speed threshold of 20..429. |
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| 06:55 | < Tarinaky> | Hey guys. |
| 06:56 | < Tarinaky> | I could do with some advise. |
| 06:56 | | * Vornicus gives tarinaky a cheese. |
| 06:56 | < Tarinaky> | Part of my assignment involves coming up with a way of adding 'discounts' in a generic way. |
| 06:56 | < Tarinaky> | I'm currently thinking some kind of txt file containing BNF patterns? |
| 06:56 | <~Vornicus> | "adding discounts"? |
| 06:57 | <~Vornicus> | Discounts to what |
| 06:57 | < Tarinaky> | So something like Pizza Pizza ::= Pizza # Buy one get one free? |
| 06:57 | < Tarinaky> | A shopping cart. |
| 06:57 | <~Vornicus> | I see. |
| 06:57 | < Tarinaky> | It's... not trivial |
| 06:57 | < Tarinaky> | Was hoping you guys has some insight? |
| 06:58 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah no |
| 07:01 | < Tarinaky> | No wrt insight or no wrt my idea? |
| 07:01 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah no it's not trivial |
| 07:02 | < Tarinaky> | I'd kindof rather avoid writing... well... a parser if I can though. |
| 07:02 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, I can't do this without some really twisted abilities |
| 07:02 | < Tarinaky> | A list of Java objects piped into a standard serialisation library would -probably- work. |
| 07:03 | <~Vornicus> | "buy tortilla chips and get a jar of salsa free!" is hard enough |
| 07:04 | < Tarinaky> | So, if I have a list of Discounts objects that apply to all orders. |
| 07:04 | < Tarinaky> | And then I specialise a Discount interface with stuff like... |
| 07:05 | <~Vornicus> | Then there's volume discounts ("must buy 5"), card discounts, coupons, "pick two"s |
| 07:05 | < Tarinaky> | matches(Order order) // determines if the pattern matches and returns a 'modified' copy of the order? |
| 07:05 | < Tarinaky> | Then specialise it with different types of discount. |
| 07:05 | < Tarinaky> | So a Bogof discount matches a pair of items in the order and outputs an order with the cheapest one 'removed'. |
| 07:06 | < Tarinaky> | Or a credit line would make more sense. |
| 07:07 | <~Vornicus> | Right. It gets tricky though, when there's multiple discounts that could apply and only one actually works. |
| 07:07 | < Tarinaky> | adds an item to the list with negative value to represent the change. |
| 07:07 | <~Vornicus> | Or something like that |
| 07:07 | <~Vornicus> | You need to, um |
| 07:07 | < Tarinaky> | That's why it's a list. |
| 07:08 | < Tarinaky> | Sort the output of the list and pick the one with the least value? |
| 07:08 | <&McMartin> | Serialization only works with data |
| 07:08 | <&McMartin> | You're trying to encapsulate code. |
| 07:08 | < Tarinaky> | What about XMLEncode? |
| 07:08 | <~Vornicus> | You need to, in addition to adding a discount line (a credit) to the receipt accounting, remove matched items from the list of things that can be discounted |
| 07:09 | < Tarinaky> | I mean, the XML just expresses that it's a Bogof Discount and it matches Pizzas... |
| 07:09 | < Tarinaky> | The source has to be modified to express what a Bogof Discount -is-. |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | OK. |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | I thought you were trying to get around the latter. |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | Which *can* be done |
| 07:09 | <&McMartin> | But, well |
| 07:10 | <&McMartin> | That's not the kind of thing you turn students loose on with "hey, GLHF" |
| 07:10 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah. That was my initial thought with the BNFs |
| 07:10 | < Tarinaky> | But you know what? |
| 07:10 | <~Vornicus> | GLHF? |
| 07:10 | < Tarinaky> | This is a fucking first year assignment. |
| 07:10 | <&McMartin> | Vornicus: Good Luck Have Fun |
| 07:10 | <~Vornicus> | Yeah, no |
| 07:10 | < Tarinaky> | I probably shouldn't be implementing any kind of simple language as part of a first year assignment. |
| 07:11 | < Tarinaky> | Particularly given I just want this assignment to end. |
| 07:11 | <~Vornicus> | My first 1kloc project was a programming language |
| 07:11 | <~Vornicus> | It had functions. It did not have arrays. |
| 07:11 | <~Vornicus> | It was done So Fucking Wrong. |
| 07:11 | < Tarinaky> | 1kloc? |
| 07:11 | <~Vornicus> | 1,000 lines of code |
| 07:11 | < Tarinaky> | Oh. Thousand lines of code. |
| 07:11 | < Tarinaky> | I imagine mine probably was a very simple functional parser. |
| 07:12 | < Tarinaky> | That didn't work. |
| 07:12 | < Tarinaky> | And more or less only had a tokeniser that didn't work. |
| 07:12 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:12 | < Tarinaky> | But what do you expect from me of all people >.> |
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| 07:14 | <~Vornicus> | Why does this project demand discounty things? |
| 07:15 | | * Tarinaky shrugs. |
| 07:15 | < Tarinaky> | Why ask me? I didn't set it. |
| 07:15 | <~Vornicus> | This is the kind of thing you get a Good Programmer to do, in SAP, and even then it's hard. |
| 07:15 | < Tarinaky> | Well, you don't have to do -everything-. |
| 07:15 | < Tarinaky> | The grade you get reflects how much you implement. |
| 07:16 | < Tarinaky> | It's probably possible to get a passing grade without discounts. |
| 07:16 | < Tarinaky> | It's just... well... I should be aiming to do the entire project. |
| 07:17 | < Tarinaky> | Especially the 'difficult bits'. |
| 07:18 | < Tarinaky> | So I think the discounts are meant to be the self-taught programmer traps. |
| 07:36 | | * jerith considers. |
| 07:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh, unit mismatch. That definitely won't help my math |
| 07:56 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My speed threshold is in km/h. My speed calculation is in tiles/2.5 days |
| 07:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | and for a 64 km/h train that puts it at around.. 1. |
| 07:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm surprised it even hits 1 |
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| 09:41 | < Tarinaky> | Gah. Can't find the name of the interface I have to implement to use XMLEncoder in Java :/ |
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| 11:19 | < Tarinaky> | Java beans XMLEncoder is shit. :/ |
| 11:20 | | * Tarinaky sighs. |
| 11:20 | < Tarinaky> | The only thing shittier is the lecturers explanation that it works 'by magic'. |
| 11:20 | < Tarinaky> | This from someone who's field specialisation is OO design :/ |
| 11:20 | < Tarinaky> | -Really-? |
| 11:20 | < Tarinaky> | :///////// |
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| 12:07 | < froztbyte> | Tarinaky: youch |
| 12:08 | < gnolam> | To be fair, "magic" can be a perfectly valid explanation... if the system in question is meant to be a black box. |
| 12:09 | < froztbyte> | I would prefer it to be a tongue-in-cheek reference in that case |
| 12:09 | < froztbyte> | and a reasonable mention of "you don't need to worry about this now, just know what behaviour to expect and how/where to verify it" |
| 12:59 | < Tarinaky> | It'd be fine... |
| 12:59 | < Tarinaky> | If it were true. |
| 12:59 | < Tarinaky> | But it plainly isn't since I've discovered a very common case where it doesn't work that we should have been told about. |
| 12:59 | < Tarinaky> | Magic is fine... as long as it actually -works-. :p |
| 13:03 | < gnolam> | At least they haven't written a Java lab framework that assumes arrays are 1-indexed. |
| 13:06 | < Tarinaky> | That's not that bad... |
| 13:06 | < Tarinaky> | An n-dimensional array is just a sugar for a 1-dimensional array. |
| 13:06 | < Tarinaky> | At least, in C/C++-land it is. |
| 13:06 | < Tarinaky> | Java might be different >.< |
| 13:10 | < gnolam> | ... what |
| 13:11 | < gnolam> | 1-indexed: the first element has index 1. |
| 13:11 | < Tarinaky> | Oh! |
| 13:11 | < Tarinaky> | I misunderstood. |
| 13:11 | < Tarinaky> | Who does that? :/ |
| 13:15 | <@AnnoDomini> | I explain to people computer things with magic all the time. |
| 13:15 | <@AnnoDomini> | "See, when you get a new computer, it has a full reservoir of magic. As you use it, the magic gets depleted, and it works slower and worse. Sometimes, reinstalling Windows can replenish the supply of magic a bit, but over time, even that won't help." |
| 13:16 | < celticminstrel> | Maple does 1-indexed... probably other math software too. |
| 13:16 | < celticminstrel> | I think Pascal might as well? |
| 13:16 | < celticminstrel> | At least by default. |
| 13:16 | < Tarinaky> | I know there're flamewars about Python having 0 index lists. |
| 13:16 | < Tarinaky> | I mean... Lists it's not so bad. |
| 13:16 | < gnolam> | Matlab, Fortran, a bunch of other languages mathematicians and physicists use if they haven't realized they should never be let near code. |
| 13:16 | < Tarinaky> | ^ |
| 13:17 | < celticminstrel> | Mathematica I would guess does it too? |
| 13:17 | < Tarinaky> | But if you can describe the property with the word 'offset' then it should start at 0 :p |
| 13:17 | < celticminstrel> | Never used it though. |
| 13:17 | < celticminstrel> | True Tarinaky, but if you describe it with the word "index" then starting at 1 actually makes perfect sense. :P |
| 13:18 | <@AnnoDomini> | MathCAD is pretty nice for staying away from code. |
| 13:39 | < Noah> | (08:15:51 AM) AnnoDomini: "See, when you get a new computer, it has a full reservoir of magic. As you use it, the magic gets depleted, and it works slower and worse. Sometimes, reinstalling Windows can replenish the supply of magic a bit, but over time, even that won't help." | And Linux has a direct connection to a Ley Line? |
| 13:41 | < Tarinaky> | Even Linux has bitrot. |
| 13:41 | < Tarinaky> | It's just slower. |
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| 13:51 | | * Noah installs some Xfce goodies |
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| 17:50 | < rms> | <ender> btw, remember those 39 million files i had in my %TEMP%? it only took 11 days to delete them all |
| 17:51 | < Noah> | Heh |
| 17:51 | <@Tamber> | "...block by block. *gworp*" |
| 18:01 | < gnolam> | BLOCKS FOR THE BLOCK GOD |
| 18:02 | < gnolam> | CLUSTERS FOR THE CLUSTER THRONE |
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| 18:05 | < Noah> | SUPER INFINITY FOR THE INFINITY GOD |
| 18:32 | < Noah> | I just got lost in the "numberphile" videos on Youtube :\ |
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| 18:49 | <@PinkFreud> | rms: oddly, creating a new filesystem would have taken far less than 11 days... |
| 18:49 | | * PinkFreud coughs |
| 18:49 | <@PinkFreud> | not to mention, he might have wanted to do something about fs fragmentation first :) |
| 18:49 | < rms> | Yeah |
| 18:51 | <@PinkFreud> | probably used half the expected lifetime for his hdd having those heads bounce all over for 11 days straight. :P |
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| 21:19 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hum. My code thinks a blimp, with a top speed of 128 km/h, had an average speed of 2627 km/h |
| 21:23 | <@Tamber> | "My other method of conveyance is a rocket-propelled Zeppelin." |
| 21:23 | < gnolam> | A supersonic blimp would be... interesting. |
| 21:23 | < gnolam> | I suspect it wouldn't be possible. |
| 21:24 | < gnolam> | A Zeppelin maybe, but not a blimp. |
| 21:24 | < gnolam> | Must... resist... urge... to do the math. |
| 21:24 | <@Tamber> | Dooooo eeeeeet! Give into the urge! |
| 21:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I suspect the buoyancy is irrelevant at that speeds. The vast majority of your energy will go into overcoming drag, with only a small amount to provide lift |
| 21:26 | < gnolam> | I was thinking more the structural integrity of a balloon at supersonic speeds. |
| 21:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ahh |
| 21:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | carry on then :) |
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| 22:05 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh damnit, I just asked "why" in #openttd again. My brain will soon implode :P |
| 22:06 | <&McMartin> | The most dangerous question in OSS projects |
| 22:06 | | * McMartin >_>, may be guilty of this himself |
| 22:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Most actually have reasons. Not always good ones, but they make sense in a certain context |
| 22:08 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Whereas openttd.. is like arguing physics with a flat-earther |
| 22:09 | <@AnnoDomini> | What am I reading here? |
| 22:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh grep -I, why did I never look for you before? |
| 22:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've just been informed that in the original TTD one of the steel mill's tiles accepts passengers. Which is treated the same as iron ore, causing it to emit steel |
| 22:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Of course openttd just continues the behaviour |
| 22:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh, arguing about the emitting steel part |
| 22:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | What network is that on |
| 22:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 22:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | OFTC |
| 22:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Try not to get me in trouble :P |
| 22:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Trying to track through to where temporaries are stored. So far I'm at STORE_TEMP -> StorageOp -> STO_TMP -> 14 (or \2sto) |
| 22:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So I just need to find the right usage of 14 |
| 22:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | * Handle Action 0x14 |
| 22:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | * @param buf Buffer. |
| 22:42 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Not what I'm looking for. Just an example of their commenting style |
| 22:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | ;.; |
| 22:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (Also the GNOME commenting style) |
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| 23:10 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Found an alternate approach to get my information.. and it's alternating between 666 and 533 for the speed |
| 23:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Which means I must be returning 519 and 415 |
| 23:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Well that's.. interesting. As a train unloads the fragments of cargo can have different ages.. within the same wagon |
| 23:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 5 tonnes from each at age 6, 5 tonnes from each at age 5, 5 tonnes from each at age 6.. |
| 23:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Age is based on time when it's generated, not when it's loaded? |
| 23:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh boo, forgot I have to translate that back too. Those are actually 5 and 4 |
| 23:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Loaded. The age is bumped incrementally while in a vehicle |
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| 23:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh bollocks. I translated tiles/day into km/h but it's actually tiles/2.5 days |
| 23:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | <Adam Savage>There's your problem!</Adam Savage> |
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| 23:54 | < Noah> | Maybe if the RPZ had a hybrid balloon, something that collapsed into a wing at high speeds and can rapidly evacuate gas (or better, use it as fuel), and inflate as rapidly as it decelerates |
| --- Log closed Wed Apr 04 00:00:22 2012 |