| --- Log opened Fri Mar 09 00:00:50 2012 |
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| 01:19 | | * McMartin fixes a bug by selecting a bunch of code and then hitting delete |
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| 01:24 | < celticminstrel> | Fun! |
| 01:24 | < celticminstrel> | So why was that code there, then? |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | The bug here is "we're still seeing evidence of use of terrible deprecated legacy calls we thought we got rid of" |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | And it turns out we use them in some fallback cases for situations we don't officially support, and so it's just getting in the way of actual error diagnosis |
| 01:26 | <&McMartin> | So, solution: don't try that~ |
| 01:36 | < celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 01:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So you fix one bug by exposing another latent bug |
| 01:52 | <&McMartin> | In other news, woo |
| 01:52 | <&McMartin> | Our product[*] works[**] on the Windows 8 Consumer Preview |
| 01:53 | <&McMartin> | Rhamphoryncus: No, the latent bug is happening, but its reporting was being swallowed. |
| 01:53 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Ahh, so it's not latent |
| 01:53 | <&McMartin> | It's also not clear whether or not it's a bug or an environmental problem in the area it's deployed. |
| 01:54 | <&McMartin> | "Gives wrong answers when given wrong inputs" is not a bug =P |
| 01:54 | <&McMartin> | Though it may be a customer escalation issue and something Engineering has to deal with. |
| 01:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: footnotes? |
| 01:56 | | * Vornicus gets stupid stupid video game ideas |
| 01:58 | <~Vornicus> | You're a caster, and you need different types of, uh, manaoids? to use your spells. You can recharge your manaoids by killing enemies |
| 01:58 | <&McMartin> | ToxicFrog: [*] Unreleased modified development build of product [**] Does not integrate with Windows 8-specific features in any way |
| 02:03 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: What sort of model? Chantelise? 'Cursed' types in ToME? Caillou in Recettear? Other? |
| 02:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | (also, problem here is that if you run out manaoids you are proper fucked) |
| 02:07 | <&McMartin> | In other news, I have now confirmed that Windows 8 is indeed Windows 6.2 |
| 02:10 | <~Vornicus> | TF: I've never played any of those, so Idon't know |
| 02:10 | <~Vornicus> | well, okay |
| 02:10 | <~Vornicus> | I've played REcettear but never gotten more than the one guy |
| 02:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Chantelise: you are melee-focused, but gain manaoids when killing things which can be spent to cast spells; which colours you've collected and how many determines which spells you cast. |
| 02:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Recettear: you are spell-focused; using your intrinsic attacks (a weak melee attack or a medium-strength but slow ranged attack) restores mana if it connects. Bonus mana for a kill. Mana is otherwise only restored with items. |
| 02:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Cursed: you spend Hate to activate special abilities; attacking or killing things increases your Hate, and it decreases slowly when not in combat. |
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| 02:26 | <~Vornicus> | Vaguely chantelise, but really the goal is to have your manaoids regenerate quickly with killing stuff, so that you end up very casting focused -- mostly your focus changes |
| 02:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm |
| 02:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | So you're not really at risk of running out, but what you can cast will change depending on what you're killing? |
| 02:28 | <~Vornicus> | Right. |
| 02:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | FF8 would kind of work like that if the cast/junction system weren't so completely cocked up~ |
| 02:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | I do like the idea; it keeps things varied, kind of presents every enemy as a puzzle ("how do I use these spells to kill it effectively") while making sure that you always have the tools you need |
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| 02:38 | | * Eri winces at Caillou. |
| 02:38 | < Eri> | I tried to play the game with him. I really did |
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| 02:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Caillou is a death engine |
| 02:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | He's the only hero I use |
| 02:43 | < Eri> | Maybe at the higher levels, but he's way too weak, at the beginning |
| 02:43 | <&Derakon> | Game? |
| 02:43 | < Eri> | Recettear |
| 02:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Even at the beginning he's pretty powerful |
| 02:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Give him so Ferromins so he doesn't die instantly, use the rapid-fire spell all day every day |
| 02:45 | < Eri> | Ah. I never thought to buff him |
| 02:45 | <&Derakon> | "Ferromin" sounds like some kind of magnet-based anti-metal-weapon defense system. |
| 02:45 | < Eri> | That's kind of obvious, in hindsight |
| 02:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mine's 50-something now, I think, and while he's merely very, very good in normal dungeon crawling, he reams bosses |
| 02:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Most bossfights last <30s |
| 02:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | The one exception being bosses that have invincibility frames (GRIFF!) |
| 02:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: it's a consumable that confers a permanent HP bonus |
| 02:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eri: it's generally a good idea to ferromin whatever hero(es) you're using, anyways. |
| 02:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | But Caillou starts with so little HP that he gets a disproportionately noticeable effect from them. |
| 02:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | And once learning how crazy powerfu the rapid fire spell was I didn't really want to use anyone else~ |
| 02:49 | <&Derakon> | Hooray glass cannons. |
| 02:49 | <&Derakon> | Upgrade to transparent aluminum railguns~ |
| 02:51 | | * Vornicus is not nearly good enough at building games to make his have any sort of balance never mind the kind he'd want |
| 02:52 | < Eri> | Just make it unbalanced. |
| 02:53 | < Eri> | I liked FF2 for that reason. Your skills grew based on how you used a guy |
| 02:53 | < Eri> | Meaning, if you ran around with low hp for a lot of battles, you really quickly had 9999 max hp |
| 02:54 | <&Derakon> | I got the impression that FF2 was mostly about really weird grinding. |
| 02:54 | <&Derakon> | Like, get into a fight with an imp, and then stand around hitting each other. |
| 02:54 | < Eri> | Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. |
| 02:54 | < Eri> | Or, to level up a spell, you just select it in the menu, then cancel. No need to cast it |
| 02:54 | < Eri> | I think that was a bug, though |
| 02:54 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, probably. |
| 02:55 | | * Vornicus gives Eri the W-Item materia. |
| 02:55 | < Eri> | W-item? It's been years since I played the game |
| 02:56 | <&Derakon> | It turns all your items into Wily Tanks, which fully refill all your weapon energy~ |
| 02:56 | <~Vornicus> | W-* materia allow you to use/cast two of the * |
| 02:56 | <~Vornicus> | there was W-Summon and W-Magic and W-Item |
| 02:56 | <~Vornicus> | W-Item had a bug in it - you could dupe infinitely any item that was usable in combat |
| 02:57 | < Eri> | Hmm. The first eighteen years of my life, I never used items in games, in case I really needed it later in the story |
| 02:57 | < Eri> | I never did, though. |
| 02:57 | <&Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 02:57 | < Eri> | I've only lately started actively trying to break that habit |
| 02:57 | <&Derakon> | I think probably at least 50% of gamers go through that phase. |
| 02:57 | <~Vornicus> | It's a hard hard habit to break |
| 02:58 | < Stalker> | No it isn't. |
| 02:58 | < Eri> | Actually, really easy. |
| 02:58 | < Stalker> | Just use it if it might be useful. |
| 02:58 | <&Derakon> | You have to want to break it, is the thing. |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | On the topic of FF2, Morrowind did the same basic idea but with better implementation and balance. |
| 02:58 | < Eri> | Take 1 hp damage, use a 30 hp potion |
| 02:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | And when Morrowind has better implementation and balance, something is wrong~ |
| 02:58 | < Eri> | XD |
| 02:58 | <&Derakon> | Didn't Morrowind have the exponential alchemy thing? |
| 02:59 | < Namegduf> | Yes. |
| 02:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: yeah, I mean more "you get better at the stuff you actually do" |
| 02:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not the overall balance of the game as a whole, just the skill system |
| 02:59 | < Stalker> | FFX-2 has something similar, you acquired points in a class for how much you used that class and how effectively you used it. |
| 02:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since, yeah, in terms of overall balance you can utterly destroy Morrowind in at least two different ways without even trying hard |
| 02:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | And if you are trying, the sky's the limit, only not really because you can exceed the limits of the skybox fairly easily~ |
| 03:00 | <&Derakon> | Hee. |
| 03:00 | < Namegduf> | Even without exploit trickery, high level Morrowind is crazy awesome. |
| 03:00 | < Namegduf> | I had a character wearing that "30 damage a second in sunlight" robe which massively boosted MP, but with way way more HP regen than the damage they took. |
| 03:01 | <&Derakon> | Heh. |
| 03:01 | < Namegduf> | It was crazy powerful except when they randomly died for no reason. |
| 03:01 | < Eri> | The problem with high level morrowind is getting there from low-level morrowind |
| 03:01 | < Namegduf> | Nah, that was fun |
| 03:01 | < Eri> | I never managed to play past level 10 or so |
| 03:01 | < Namegduf> | Epic quest around the world for the singular pieces of each daedric armour |
| 03:01 | < Namegduf> | Soul collection, two days with pen and paper and the wiki deciding what to do with it. |
| 03:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | My first time around I just stocked up on soul gems and trapped every goddamn rat and cliff racer I found. |
| 03:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | A few quests later, bought a huge pile of cheap jewelery and went up into the mountains north of Balmora. |
| 03:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Came down five levels higher and extremely dangerous~ |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | I have no idea what soul gems do, but sounds like the Mind Crystal thing in Exile 3. |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | Where you cast the spell and stored a copy of a monster in your crystal, which you could then summon later. |
| 03:03 | <&Derakon> | So at the start of the game you copied an insanely powerful friendly NPC. |
| 03:04 | < Namegduf> | They let you capture the souls of things so you can consume them as fuel for magic. |
| 03:04 | <&Derakon> | Then at the end of the game you summoned that NPC to fight itself after it turned traitor~ |
| 03:04 | < Eri> | Aaaaah! I was going to play that game! |
| 03:04 | < Eri> | Now I won |
| 03:04 | < Eri> | *won't, thatnks to you |
| 03:04 | < Eri> | Nah, I kid. Never even heard of it |
| 03:04 | < Eri> | Is it any good? |
| 03:05 | <&Derakon> | I remember it being pretty decent. |
| 03:05 | <&Derakon> | It's definitely an Ultima-style RPG. |
| 03:05 | <&Derakon> | Though not so moralistic. |
| 03:06 | <&Derakon> | There's a remake which is probably more accessible, but I remember the combat in the original (and especially the golem factory level) being much more interesting. |
| 03:06 | <&McMartin> | EXPLODING PANTS TECHNIQUE |
| 03:06 | <&Derakon> | Then again that might be nostalgia talking. |
| 03:07 | <&Derakon> | (The remake is called Avernum 3) |
| 03:07 | <&Derakon> | (Also I don't think it has mind crystals) |
| 03:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: soul gems can capture the souls of dying enemies, which can then be used to create or recharge enchanted items |
| 03:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nastier enemies contain more power, but require higher quality (read: rarer, more expensive) gems to contain; gods can only be trapped by Azura's Star (which is, itself, made by a deity) |
| 03:09 | <&Derakon> | Is said diety trappable by those gems? |
| 03:09 | <&Derakon> | If so, what the hell is it doing making its own kryptonite? |
| 03:12 | < celticminstrel> | Oh hey, someone mentioned Exile. |
| 03:13 | < celticminstrel> | Those gems are Soul Crystals, not Mind Crystals... |
| 03:13 | <&Derakon> | Oh, whups. |
| 03:13 | < celticminstrel> | Are you talking about Rentar-Ihrno? |
| 03:14 | <&Derakon> | Given that I said the NPC turns traitor, I don't think I can reasonably answer that question. |
| 03:14 | <&Derakon> | Unless we don't care about spoilers. |
| 03:14 | < celticminstrel> | Good point... I've already been spoiled despite not finishing the game, but that's just me... |
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| 03:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: it's not. |
| 03:34 | | * Vornicus really should actually buy the Exile and Avernum series at some point |
| 03:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | (specifically, it works on former mortals who have ascended to the status of godhood; the gods that were never mortal, you never interact with on a level where soultrapping would be possible or even meaningful) |
| 03:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | I was never able to get into Avernum, for reasons I have never been able to determine. |
| 03:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Maybe it's just that the whole "roll your entire party to start" bit reminds me uncomfortably of old-school D&D1-inspired dungeon crawlers. |
| 03:45 | < Eri> | Hey, some of those were alright |
| 03:45 | < Eri> | I still have some maps kicking around from Wizardry |
| 03:45 | < Eri> | The first or second one, if I remember right.. Proving grounds of the mad overlord |
| 03:49 | < celticminstrel> | Rolling doesn't sound like the right term for it... |
| 03:49 | <&Derakon> | IIRC the initial trilogy of Exile and/or Avernum games is eminently doable with a solo character. |
| 03:49 | <&Derakon> | Certainly I preferred to go it alone in the Exile games. |
| 03:49 | < celticminstrel> | Yeah, pretty sure it is. |
| 03:49 | <&Derakon> | You might want to go with two characters, one to do mage spells and one to do priest, since they require a significant skillpoint investment in the Avernum series. |
| 03:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Eri: not a style of gameplay I enjoy. |
| 03:50 | | * McMartin liked Might and Magic 2 a great deal. |
| 03:50 | <&Derakon> | Having read the LP of Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord, I have to say I wouldn't want to play it. |
| 03:50 | <&Derakon> | Whups! You got surprised by ninjas! Whups! They instakilled your characters! Whups! They're lost forever! |
| 03:51 | < celticminstrel> | Lost forever? |
| 03:51 | <&Derakon> | Yeah, the game saves after every combat. |
| 03:51 | <&McMartin> | I swear, the early dungeon crawler games were actually designed to be hacked. |
| 03:52 | <&Derakon> | Per the LP, you are fully expected to start the game off by rolling up some characters, stripping them naked, and selling their gear so you can afford to equip your real characters. |
| 03:54 | <&McMartin> | Remember to always wear protection when fucking that noise |
| 03:54 | <&Derakon> | I would totally do an LP of Exile 3 if I had lots of time to spare and ideas for Witty Commentary(TM). |
| 03:59 | < Eri> | Eh? That's totally not a strategy I knew of. |
| 03:59 | < Eri> | More likely, the guy doing the LP was a retard |
| 03:59 | < Eri> | I never really had any early-game problems. |
| 04:00 | < Eri> | You just don't go far from the exit for the first level or two |
| 04:00 | <&Derakon> | http://lparchive.org/Wizardry-Proving-Grounds-of-the-Mad-Overlord/ |
| 04:00 | < Eri> | Also, they weren't dead forever. You can find them in the maze, and bring their bodies back to the surface to get resurrected |
| 04:00 | | * Eri clicks |
| 04:03 | <&Derakon> | Going back to Exile, I've always liked just how useful the combat buffs are. |
| 04:04 | <&Derakon> | Your melee fighters go from unreliable to almost always hitting with a single bless, and another makes them bloody hard to hit. |
| 04:04 | <&Derakon> | And of course, being able to attack three times per round thanks to Haste is always handy. |
| 04:04 | <&Derakon> | The Avernum series made melee attacks much more costly action point-wise, which makes that harder to pull off. :( |
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| 11:52 | | * TheWatcher hates all over CentOS |
| 11:56 | < RichyB> | I'm curious. Why? |
| 11:56 | <@TheWatcher> | Largely because it makes Debian look cutting-edge |
| 11:58 | <@TheWatcher> | Which in and of itself? *shrug* However, I need to deal with IS people who refuse to consider using anything but CentOS, and students who need to use php. |
| 11:58 | <@TheWatcher> | (well, and others, but php is the killer) |
| 12:00 | <@TheWatcher> | (see also: CentOS's choice of packages being along the lines of "if it hasn't seen at least one ice age, it's too new") |
| 12:02 | <@TheWatcher> | (also see also: php documentation for anything but the latest stable being nigh impossible for students /with no previous programming ability, or experience with the idiots who write php/ to actually find) |
| 12:03 | < RichyB> | Oh, their stable version policy. |
| 12:03 | < RichyB> | Yeah, that's not a flaw in RHEL, that's actually the entire point of it. |
| 12:04 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, I know, but 6+ year old packages are vaguely insane. |
| 12:04 | < RichyB> | TheWatcher, if your IS people can stomach the idea of using a 3rd-party repo, the easiest way to upgrade PHP on RHEL/CentOS is to use IUS. http://iuscommunity.org/ |
| 12:05 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, I wish |
| 12:06 | < RichyB> | It's a repository that backports newer versions of PHP and friends to RHEL. It's maintained by Rackspace Ltd, who are basically ninjas (even their fucking salespeople seem to be sysadmins) and never make mistakes. |
| 12:06 | <@TheWatcher> | I know, I've even suggested it, they weren't having any of it |
| 12:06 | < RichyB> | Ah, twats. |
| 12:07 | < RichyB> | Quit please hating RHEL, start hating your IS team instead. |
| 12:07 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh, I do that already. |
| 12:08 | < RichyB> | Good. Anyway, your IS team's insistence on RHEL is sensible for most applications but not this one. |
| 12:08 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah |
| 12:08 | <@TheWatcher> | I can see that, come this Summer, I will be asked to essentially grab control of those servers and make them actually usable by the students. |
| 12:08 | < RichyB> | In your situation, I would smooth talk your IS team into getting gcc installed and just build apache+mod_php out of userland. |
| 12:10 | < RichyB> | The _ideal_ thing from both yours and the IS team's responsibility is for them to just fuck off and let you have a few Ubuntu 10.04 or 12.04 boxes on their own network segment, firewalled off from everything else that needs to be kept secure. |
| 12:10 | < RichyB> | (I know 12.04 isn't out yet, but it probably will be before that request gets granted. ;P) |
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| 13:22 | <@jerith> | RichyB: 14.04 will probably be released before that... |
| 13:27 | < Lowpass> | We have the 'Lolarium' filled with Solaris thin clients as our 'solution'. |
| 13:27 | < Lowpass> | For teaching the C+UNIX module. |
| 13:27 | < Lowpass> | I'm not entirely sure on Webdev or the specifics of C+UNIX as I don't do those modules |
| 13:27 | | Lowpass is now known as Tarinaky |
| 13:28 | < Tarinaky> | Nobody actually uses those machines unless there's a lab on though because they're hideously slow. |
| 13:28 | < Tarinaky> | Which is a pity. |
| 13:33 | | himi [fow035@Nightstar-5d05bada.internode.on.net] has joined #code |
| 13:33 | | mode/#code [+o himi] by ChanServ |
| 13:45 | < Rhamphoryncus> | 6 year old PHP? I would expect the rate of failures and security flaws to have bottomed out and started increasing before then |
| 13:46 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And that's assuming they do still get security updates |
| 14:11 | | * TheWatcher vaguely wonders what the designers of LDAP were actually on |
| 14:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | There's so many options to choose from! |
| 14:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Actually, I suspect "all of them" is closer ¬¬ |
| 14:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXROnzpsrlg |
| 14:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've been on 5 or 6 of those >.> |
| 14:22 | < gnolam> | "if you want to overdose there's always paracetamol" <- :D |
| 14:39 | | * TheWatcher vaguely flails at this design |
| 14:43 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 14:58 | | * Rhamphoryncus emphatically flails at TheWatcher's vague flailing |
| 15:03 | < Tarinaky> | The amature transplants/ |
| 15:03 | < Tarinaky> | Ah, yes. |
| 15:26 | < simon_> | a lock is just a binary semaphore, right? |
| 15:27 | < simon_> | and a binary semaphore is always a lock, isn't it? |
| 15:28 | <@jerith> | A semaphore is an implementation mechanism for a lock. |
| 15:29 | < simon_> | I just wonder... |
| 15:29 | < RichyB> | No, one difference. |
| 15:29 | < RichyB> | A lock can only be released by the thread that acquired it. |
| 15:29 | < RichyB> | A binary semaphore can be released by any thread. |
| 15:30 | < simon_> | RichyB, so a binary semaphore can act as a lock if you imply that convention. |
| 15:30 | < RichyB> | Yes. If you use a binary semaphore as if it were a lock, it'll work perfectly. |
| 15:30 | < RichyB> | ...except that if you accidentally violate the locking protocol, they'll behave differently. Defined but wrong behaviour with a binary semaphore, undefined behaviour with a lock. :) |
| 15:30 | < simon_> | this operating system has a counting semaphore implementation, and we were asked to implement locks, without simply using create_semaphore(1). |
| 15:31 | < simon_> | right :) thanks. |
| 15:31 | < simon_> | I think semaphores are pretty awesome. |
| 15:31 | < RichyB> | The ideal behaviour for trying to unlock a lock from the wrong thread is, of course, an abort() or an exception being thrown. |
| 15:32 | < RichyB> | Semaphores are very neat. |
| 15:32 | < simon_> | yes. I make a kernel assertion. |
| 15:32 | < simon_> | (the interface doesn't allow for error reporting at return value level) |
| 15:32 | < RichyB> | There is one very specific argument for mutex+condition variable implementations. |
| 15:32 | < simon_> | yes? |
| 15:33 | < RichyB> | Using a mutex with a condition variable, the predicate that waiting threads wait on maps one-to-one with a Hoare clause in the proof that you are of course writing of your program's correctness. |
| 15:33 | < RichyB> | And you are of course writing full correctness proofs in Hoare clauses for every program that you write, aren't you? ;) |
| 15:33 | < simon_> | certainly. ;-) |
| 15:34 | < RichyB> | Er, Hoare logic. |
| 15:34 | < simon_> | I at least know what they are, hehe. |
| 15:42 | < Tarinaky> | https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FxNva0SP9fQ/T1of7FJr75I/AAAAAAAAA9g/4Mx8exkdG Uw/s647/2012+-+1 |
| 15:55 | < Rhamphoryncus> | simon_: it's great to be able to implement one thing using another, but I find the whole "find the most primitive primitive" race to be stupid. Especially when it comes to threading. |
| 15:58 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I found semaphores to be a pretty poor tool for real world tasks. I built a flag type that can be set or cleared, but only one thread can wait on it, and I found it massively simpler to utilize. |
| 16:00 | < Rhamphoryncus> | And futexes are a totally different way of implementing locks and such.. and are themselves implemented in a totally different way. |
| 16:08 | < simon_> | Rhamphoryncus, interesting. isn't that similar to pthread_mutex_trylock()? |
| 16:09 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Nope. It's a baby semaphore that fails in useful ways rather than useless ones |
| 16:13 | < simon_> | aw. |
| 16:13 | < simon_> | ;-) |
| 16:15 | < simon_> | I'm reading up on futexes. |
| 16:16 | < simon_> | I'm not sure how your flag thing is more useful. do you have an example of it? |
| 16:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | It's not a question of utility. It's about simplicity. |
| 16:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Thread A needs to wait on a condition. Threads B, C, D, all update stuff that might trigger it, so they each have a possibility of setting the flag. |
| 16:31 | < simon_> | ah. |
| 16:40 | < Tarinaky> | I hate my course. |
| 16:40 | < Tarinaky> | I hate my course. |
| 16:40 | < Tarinaky> | I hate my course. |
| 16:41 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: Do you perchance hate your course? |
| 16:42 | < Tarinaky> | Why yes? Are you a sooth sayer, psychic or other form of diviner of wills? |
| 16:42 | <@jerith> | Nah, just a hunch. |
| 16:47 | | Attilla_ [Obsolete@Nightstar-59955c43.threembb.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 16:49 | | Attilla [Obsolete@Nightstar-ce4a0443.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 16:49 | | Attilla_ is now known as Attilla |
| 16:52 | < simon_> | Tarinaky, what is your course? |
| 16:53 | < Tarinaky> | CS. |
| 16:53 | < Tarinaky> | I don't hate the Maths. |
| 16:53 | < Tarinaky> | I meerly struggle with it. |
| 16:54 | < Tarinaky> | But CS is...annoying. |
| 16:55 | <~Vornicus> | What's the difficulty you're hitting? |
| 16:55 | < Tarinaky> | ATM Group Project deadline. |
| 16:55 | <~Vornicus> | (also, note: CS courses are often annoying) |
| 16:55 | <~Vornicus> | Oh goodness. |
| 16:55 | < Tarinaky> | and my group have and are being phenominally shit. |
| 16:55 | < Tarinaky> | But I also hate the lectures. |
| 16:55 | < Tarinaky> | But not because of difficulty :/ |
| 16:56 | < Tarinaky> | Next year's Group Project I'm going to find out where people live on the first day. |
| 16:56 | < Tarinaky> | And see if I can borrow a (LARP safe) axe from someone. |
| 16:57 | < Tarinaky> | The good news about the group project is if my grades are lower this year I'll get a better group next year. |
| 16:58 | < Tarinaky> | But yeah. I don't need lectures on how to operate an oscilloscope or invoke a compiler. :/ |
| 17:00 | | * TheWatcher has yet to work out quite why so many academics are gung-ho about group work |
| 17:00 | < Tarinaky> | At least when I did physical sciences the group work had an individual writeup/submission |
| 17:01 | < Tarinaky> | At least in the first year anyway. |
| 17:01 | <@TheWatcher> | They waffle on about "the more capable ones can teach the less capable", without realising that this requires the latter to actually want to do anything, and the former to actually want to teach them |
| 17:02 | <@TheWatcher> | And the ones that argue that "it's good preparation for industry" have clearly never been in industry. >.> |
| 17:02 | < Tarinaky> | That's also a bit unfair on the more capable ones. |
| 17:02 | < Tarinaky> | Who presumably would also like to learn >.> |
| 17:03 | <@jerith> | TheWatcher: The best rationalisation I've seen is that you sometimes have to work with inappropriate people and it's useful to learn how to do that. |
| 17:04 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-5697f7e2.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 17:04 | < Tarinaky> | jerith: The lesson seems to be to give them as little to do as possible and nurse resentment deep within your soul. |
| 17:05 | <@jerith> | Tarinaky: That's actually one of the better approaches. |
| 17:06 | < maoranma> | Working with Asshats 101 |
| 17:12 | < maoranma> | Uhg, I gotta figure out how to clear that recovery partion out |
| 17:18 | < RichyB> | Arguably it teaches you by way of trial-by-fire how to use modularisation to to wall off idiotic motherfuckers from screwing up the rest of a code base. |
| 17:21 | <@TheWatcher> | Which works, provided that the idiotic motherfuckers are a minority~ |
| 17:22 | <@TheWatcher> | Otherwise you just end up writing the whole thing yourself, just to get something that will actually get you any marks. |
| 17:22 | <@jerith> | Quite. |
| 17:23 | <@jerith> | Which teaches you about unreasonable workloads and infeasible deadlines. |
| 17:31 | < maoranma> | Aka, life in the IT field. |
| 17:31 | < maoranma> | Anyone know how I might got about merging two noncontiguous partitions? |
| 17:31 | < maoranma> | go* |
| 17:32 | <~Vornicus> | Partitions as in hard drive partitions? |
| 17:32 | <@TheWatcher> | Carefully! |
| 17:32 | < maoranma> | I know it can't be literally done, that's impossible |
| 17:32 | < maoranma> | And yes Vornicus |
| 17:32 | <~Vornicus> | I'd grab a spare drive |
| 17:33 | <~Vornicus> | And build that one with the structure you want, and copy everything over |
| 17:33 | < maoranma> | That's a bit difficult, as I'm on a laptop |
| 17:33 | <@jerith> | maoranma: Software RAID? You'd probably have to recreate the filesystem, though. |
| 17:34 | <@TheWatcher> | external HD? scp to another machine? |
| 17:34 | < maoranma> | The recovery partition has been deleted, it's like 7gb, there's a 100mb partion between it and my os partition, but I don't have any idea what's in it |
| 17:34 | < maoranma> | I think it's windows boot info, I remember switching it from active once, and that caused booting to fail, hah |
| 17:35 | < RichyB> | TheWatcher, yes, then you get into the "triage" stage of modularisation-as-defence. |
| 17:35 | < maoranma> | Sounds like I need to just reinstall the OS, bleh |
| 17:36 | < RichyB> | Which is where you modularise in order to be able to implement a non-empty set of features yourself in a way that doesn't take any notice of whether or not anyone else even did fired up their text editor. :) |
| 17:36 | < maoranma> | that's a headache I don't want again |
| 17:37 | <@jerith> | RichyB: It's harder to deal with people who actually hurt productivity than those who just aren't productive. |
| 17:37 | | * jerith has worked with guys who wrote bugs faster than he could remove them. |
| 17:39 | < RichyB> | I am stuck with one of those bastards for the rest of my life as far as I can tell. |
| 17:39 | < RichyB> | Him and his stupid beard, staring back at me in the mirror every morning... ;) |
| 17:40 | < maoranma> | Oh, you have that dumb bearded fucker in your mirror too? |
| 17:41 | < RichyB> | He goes away for a half a week or so every few months. |
| 17:41 | < RichyB> | Usually just after I've accidentally shaved. |
| 17:42 | < maoranma> | I can't shave, I look like an idiot. And I prefer people figure that out without my assistance. |
| 17:43 | < Tarinaky> | I'm livid. |
| 17:43 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 17:44 | < Tarinaky> | You know what captain "Totally working on x now" said? |
| 17:44 | < Tarinaky> | Just before submission time? |
| 17:44 | < Tarinaky> | That he hadn't, in fact, done a damn bit of documentation. |
| 17:44 | < Tarinaky> | Presumably all the requests for me to write stuff for it was just for shits and fucking giggles. |
| 17:44 | < Tarinaky> | I am fucking livid |
| 17:44 | <@TheWatcher> | Great future in development for him, then~ |
| 17:44 | <@TheWatcher> | (I wish I was sodding joking ;.;) |
| 17:45 | < Tarinaky> | So do I. |
| 17:45 | < Tarinaky> | Despite generally trying to be a nice person of late I actually broke into a loud torrent of profanity. |
| 17:45 | < Tarinaky> | The entire computer lab fell silent. |
| 17:46 | <@jerith> | http://streamti.me/track-1 -- PyCon live stream. |
| 17:46 | <@jerith> | "We need to change the world so we receive fewer phone calls." |
| 17:46 | < maoranma> | Aww, live stream just as I was about to fix my partitions |
| 17:46 | <@jerith> | maoranma: Assuming you care about PyCon. :-) |
| 17:47 | < Tarinaky> | I have a bottle of cheap whisky. |
| 17:47 | < Tarinaky> | I intend to nurse my grudge in the proper dwarvenly fashion. |
| 17:47 | <@TheWatcher> | You're going to get drunk, and then throw scones at them? |
| 17:47 | < maoranma> | I got Partition Wizard to move the 100mb to the beginning of the disk, and now I'm gonna extend my OS partition over the free space |
| 17:48 | <@jerith> | maoranma: Make sure the new one works before you nuke the old one... |
| 17:48 | < maoranma> | I'm sure it's fine, wish me luck! |
| 17:48 | | maoranma [maoranma@Nightstar-18ea8aaa.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: ] |
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| 17:51 | <@jerith> | Paul Graham's keynote about to start on that stream. |
| 18:02 | | maoranma [maoranma@Nightstar-18ea8aaa.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #code |
| 18:04 | < maoranma> | I live dangerously |
| 18:04 | < maoranma> | Moving partitions, resizing them at will. I have no fear. |
| 18:04 | <@Vash> | o.o |
| 18:05 | <@Vash> | Hi maoranma. |
| 18:05 | < maoranma> | Hi Vash |
| 18:08 | < maoranma> | 10GB free now, that's better |
| 18:33 | < maoranma> | afk for a while |
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| 19:44 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:35 | | Number3 is now known as AnnoDomini |
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| 21:52 | < maoranma> | Dear deli up the road, I said with onion, not with A onion. Hugs and kisses, the fucker you're trying to give onion poisoning. |
| 21:52 | | * McMartin takes the rest of that onion off your hands |
| 21:52 | < maoranma> | PS. Spicy means spicy, not dyed red, ffs. |
| 22:00 | <@Vash> | ... |
| 22:03 | | Stalker [Z@2C3C9C.B2A300.F245DE.859909] has joined #code |
| 22:26 | | * McMartin gives in, installs Perl on this Windows box |
| 22:49 | < maoranma> | Uhg, I can't gett DDE to import in python |
| 22:58 | < maoranma> | oh, dur, nevermind |
| 22:58 | < maoranma> | have to use the PythonWin IDE |
| 23:25 | < Tarinaky> | So QtDesigner is now installed. |
| 23:25 | < Tarinaky> | Why is the Binary not in my start menu |
| 23:26 | < Tarinaky> | Or otherwise locateable :/ |
| 23:54 | < maoranma> | Bah, I give up on using DDE, just going to have to make a proper IRC bot. |
| --- Log closed Sat Mar 10 00:00:31 2012 |