| --- Log opened Thu Oct 20 00:00:29 2011 |
| 00:02 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:10 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 00:27 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:32 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 00:48 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 00:52 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:54 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:55 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:55 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 01:02 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:04 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:08 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 01:08 | | mode/#code [+qo Vornicus Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 01:23 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:24 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 02:03 | | * Simon_Shine hits his head against a wall |
| 02:04 | < Simon_Shine> | I'm doing 'fst o List.find (fn ...)' in Standard ML, and it tells me the output is an 'a option |
| 02:04 | < Simon_Shine> | so I think "ah, so I just liftM fst o List.find (fn ...)'... wait... 'a option isn't a monadic type in SML. |
| 02:06 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 02:16 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:20 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 02:36 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-f29f718d.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:49 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 03:00 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:01 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 03:08 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-5aa18eaf.balk.dk] has quit [[NS] Quit: If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.] |
| 03:12 | | ToxicFrog [ToxicFrog@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 03:31 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:31 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 03:34 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 03:35 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 03:36 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 03:41 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 04:28 | | * Derakon points bored people to http://angband.oook.cz/forum/showthread.php?t=5026 |
| 04:50 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 04:51 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 04:53 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 05:07 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 05:20 | | * Derakon decides to do some game coding, discovers that this is the first time he's had that impulse since getting his new computer. |
| 05:20 | < Derakon> | Whelp. |
| 05:20 | < Derakon> | Time to install a bunch of stuff. |
| 05:27 | < Derakon> | ...starting with a non-system Python2.6, since 2.7 is still not supported. |
| 05:28 | < ToxicFrog> | Heh. |
| 05:28 | < ToxicFrog> | I spent much of yesterday refactoring felt's server code rather than marking assignments >.> |
| 05:29 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:30 | < Derakon> | Agh, installers don't think I have the python.org Python installed, but I do! Dammit. |
| 05:30 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 05:31 | < ToxicFrog> | sudo apt-get install python-2.6? |
| 05:31 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 05:31 | < Derakon> | Yeah, OSX. |
| 05:31 | < Derakon> | And I just did install the python.org Python, which is why this is annoying. |
| 05:31 | < Derakon> | The detection is screwy. |
| 05:34 | < ToxicFrog> | I keep forgetting who here develops on OSX and who on Linux and who on both. |
| 05:34 | < ToxicFrog> | Having an actual package manager for so many years has spoiled me~ |
| 05:35 | < Derakon> | This doesn't appear to have anything to do with the package manager so much as it does with the installer being shit. |
| 05:35 | < Derakon> | The Python that it wants is installed, but it doesn't see it. |
| 05:36 | < Derakon> | ...oh, wait, I installed the 64-bit Python. Bet that's the problem. |
| 05:37 | < ToxicFrog> | Right, I'm saying that with a proper package manager you don't need to faff about with terribly written installers~ |
| 05:37 | < ToxicFrog> | (...most of the time) |
| 05:41 | | * Vornicus should really get around to putting together his file server thingy |
| 05:41 | | * Derakon tries to figure out how to tell Python to build a 32-bit executable. |
| 05:42 | < Derakon> | Naturally Google is useless here, being full of responses on how to tell the Apple-supplied Python to run in 32-bit mode for a given session. |
| 05:53 | | * Derakon finds a binary install of Python2.6.6, which really wasn't called out adequately in his admittedly-tired opinion. |
| 05:53 | < Derakon> | It's much, much easier to find the source-only 2.6.7, which AFAICT can only be compiled into 64-bit mode on my computer. |
| 05:53 | < Derakon> | Thereby breaking compatibility with binary libraries. |
| 05:57 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 05:58 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 06:09 | < Derakon> | ...okay, PIL won't install because the libxml I have is for PPC architectures (WTF?), and MacPorts can't install libxml because a dependency p5.12-locale-gettext couldn't be found. |
| 06:10 | <~Vornicus> wtf |
| 06:11 | < Derakon> | Oh, great. https://trac.macports.org/ticket/30739 |
| 06:11 | < Derakon> | "selfupdate syncs the ports tree and then builds the new version of MacPorts. Which means that you've got a new ports tree, full of ports that have new MacPorts 2.0 commands, trying to be parsed by MacPorts 1.9.2, failing, generating tons of errors while trying to build the new portindex" |
| 06:16 | | * Derakon downloads new MacPorts, reinstalls libxml, gets the same damn build error when trying to compile PIL. |
| 06:16 | < Derakon> | For added fun, the build will fail for both PPC and i386 builds, so it looks like whatever libxml is, it's completely useless! |
| 06:16 | < Derakon> | Maybe it's another goddamn 32/64-bit problem. |
| 06:17 | < Derakon> | Anyway to check the architecture of a dynamically-linked library? |
| 06:17 | < Derakon> | Ah, file command. And yeah, it's 64-bit all right. |
| 06:38 | < Derakon> | Okay, there we go, things are running again. Sheesh. |
| 06:38 | < Derakon> | And now it's too late for me to do any coding. >.< |
| 06:42 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:48 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 06:58 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 07:18 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I <3Lovecraft<3 Vorn!] |
| 07:23 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 07:38 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 07:43 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 08:24 | | cpux [cpux@Nightstar-c5874a39.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 08:53 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 09:01 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 09:03 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 09:06 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 09:07 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 09:07 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-2a577c2d.58.getinternet.no] has joined #code |
| 09:36 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 09:45 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 10:12 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 10:15 | | Attilla [Some.Dude@Nightstar-f29f718d.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #code |
| 10:18 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 10:57 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 11:17 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 11:23 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 12:06 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-2a577c2d.58.getinternet.no] has quit [[NS] Quit: Away!] |
| 12:09 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:13 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 12:39 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 12:40 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 12:49 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 12:50 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 13:05 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 13:53 | < gnolam> | ... what. The. Fuck. |
| 13:53 | < gnolam> | Google just demanded a captcha of me. To let me perform a search. |
| 13:53 | < gnolam> | Fuck that shit. That was the final straw. |
| 14:07 | | Reivles [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:13 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 14:16 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 14:17 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 14:22 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 14:52 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 14:54 | < Namegduf> | gnolam: That indicates the IP you're coming from has been making a *lot* of search requests |
| 14:54 | < Namegduf> | gnolam: It's been there for a long time |
| 14:55 | < Namegduf> | It doesn't normally hit normal users |
| 14:55 | < gnolam> | Oh, is that what the "Why did this happen?" link /that only tosses you back to the captcha/ means? :P |
| 14:56 | < gnolam> | And how the fuck are they defining "a lot"? |
| 14:56 | < gnolam> | Besides "really, really wrong" |
| 14:57 | < Namegduf> | That's a silly question; do you expect every company to publish the details of their automated abuse mitigation logic? |
| 14:57 | < gnolam> | And hell, why even have that system /when their own idiotic shit I don't even want/ creates even more traffic/searches? |
| 14:57 | < Namegduf> | Because it doesn't normally affect normal users, and is presumably accounted for in it. |
| 14:57 | < gnolam> | *cough*Google Instant*cough* |
| 14:58 | < Namegduf> | I think I saw it once when using some kind of proxy for some reason. |
| 14:58 | < Namegduf> | Otherwise I've never been hit, ever. |
| 14:58 | < Namegduf> | Even from within large NAT'd networks. |
| 14:59 | < Namegduf> | I dunno why you triggered it. |
| 14:59 | < gnolam> | Because Google have lost their shit. |
| 15:00 | < Namegduf> | It's actually more likely that something's wrong at your end. Fine here. |
| 15:13 | < gnolam> | No, that their unnecessary limit is set too low is infinitely more likely. |
| 15:13 | < gnolam> | FFS, they're not even competent enough to have a working "Why did this happen?" link. |
| 15:21 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:22 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 15:56 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 15:59 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 16:31 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [[NS] Quit: If the world didn't suck, we'd all fall off.] |
| 17:38 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-f68d7eb4.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 17:38 | < Derakon> | Argh, this thing really doesn't fit into the rest of the program at all. |
| 17:38 | < Derakon> | The entire processing pipeline I have set up assumes that it operates on one file at a time. |
| 17:38 | < Derakon> | And here's this new module that operates on multiple files and spits out a single result. It's no good! |
| 17:51 | | * Derakon sighs, starts coding in a function that says "treat me differently from every other module" and the necessary infrastructure to support that. |
| 17:51 | < Derakon> | I mean, it's not like there's nothing in the rest of the program to support this thing, just the entire concept of processing one file at a time is invalid. |
| 17:54 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 17:59 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-5aa18eaf.balk.dk] has joined #code |
| 17:59 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 18:41 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has joined #code |
| 19:04 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 19:04 | | Rhamphoryncus_ [rhamph@Nightstar-14eb6405.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 19:05 | | Rhamphoryncus_ [rhamph@Nightstar-14eb6405.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 20:05 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:06 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has joined #code |
| 20:14 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 20:15 | | Syloqs-AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 20:30 | | * Derakon sighs as he discovers that an assumption he had held that made handling simpler was actually false. |
| 20:31 | < Derakon> | I hate it when that happens. |
| 20:44 | | Reiver [orthianz@3CF3A5.E1CD01.C6689C.33956A] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 21:00 | < Derakon> | Mental note: .*? is the wrong construct to use for the end of a regex. |
| 21:28 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 21:43 | < Simon_Shine> | :P |
| 21:51 | < ToxicFrog> | Welp. |
| 21:51 | < ToxicFrog> | Done functional testing on the assignment one submissions. |
| 21:51 | < ToxicFrog> | :suicide: |
| 21:52 | | * Derakon patpats. |
| 21:52 | < Derakon> | Intro CS, or do they theoretically know what they're doing? |
| 21:52 | < celticminstrel> | What sort of class is this? |
| 21:52 | < ToxicFrog> | Third year parallel programming. |
| 21:52 | < ToxicFrog> | Not one of the submissions correctly implemented the entire spec. |
| 21:54 | < Namegduf> | Stupid screwups, or just incomplete? |
| 21:54 | < Namegduf> | (Or "not smart enough" screwups, I have no idea how hard this was supposed to be) |
| 21:54 | < ToxicFrog> | EVERYTHING |
| 21:54 | < Derakon> | What, broadly speaking, was the assignment? |
| 21:54 | < Derakon> | Dining philosophers? |
| 21:54 | < ToxicFrog> | It's not meant to be at all hard if they understand the material. |
| 21:54 | < Namegduf> | Aha. |
| 21:54 | < Namegduf> | There's your problem. |
| 21:55 | < ToxicFrog> | Most of which is very new to them, so they should start this at least a week before deadline, and preferably earlier, because they will run into issues they've never seen before. |
| 21:55 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 21:55 | < Derakon> | As opposed to the day before it's due, which is a long-standing tradition in CS classes. |
| 21:55 | < Namegduf> | You have multiple problems. |
| 21:55 | < Namegduf> | That there is a second one. |
| 21:56 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: parallel image thumbnailing. They're given a directory of ~1000 images and a library that does simple image operations. Implement three versions: serial, parallel (one reader/writer, one compressor, N-2 decompressor-scalers), and unpiped (one read/writer, N-1 decompressor-scaler-compressors) |
| 21:57 | < Namegduf> | 20:56 <exch> Nice. 'hello, world' in Dart compiles to about 17000 lines |
| 21:57 | < ToxicFrog> | The parallelism library is a simple message-passing library. |
| 21:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: <ToxicFrog> Nice. 'hello, world' in C is 6MB. |
| 21:57 | < Namegduf> | Your C compiler sucks |
| 21:57 | < Derakon> | How do you define "lines" for a compiled program, anyway? |
| 21:57 | < Namegduf> | Derakon: Dart is compiled to JS |
| 21:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Derakon: it compiles to Javascript. |
| 21:58 | < Derakon> | Oh. |
| 21:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: that's with static linking of libc, which is the most appropriate comparison. |
| 21:58 | | Vash [Vash@Nightstar-f03c5637.sd.cox.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: I <3Lovecraft<3 Vorn!] |
| 21:58 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: Your linker sucks, then |
| 21:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Since it's 17000 lines not just for "hello world" but for the entire runtime plus hello world. |
| 21:58 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: Statically linked Go programs are under 1MB for way more than that |
| 21:58 | < Namegduf> | And C can do *much better* |
| 21:58 | < Namegduf> | Your linker should not be building in btis which aren't referenced |
| 21:58 | < ToxicFrog> | Anyways, we're derailing. |
| 21:59 | < ToxicFrog> | The biggest problem, I think, is that they're starting it way too late to work out all the issues before the due date. |
| 21:59 | < ToxicFrog> | This also means they don't have time to, say, come to me during office hours and ask what they're doing wrong. |
| 21:59 | < Derakon> | Yep. |
| 21:59 | < Derakon> | Sounds about right. |
| 22:00 | < Derakon> | Though, I would expect better from third-years who have just started the school year. |
| 22:00 | < ToxicFrog> | And a lot of them haven't used C in a while and thus need to get back into the swing of it (possible improvement for future years: install pylot and luapilot on the cluster, most of them probably at least have recent python experience) |
| 22:00 | < Derakon> | I mean, they shouldn't be so broken down that they're procrastinating all the time. Not just yet. |
| 22:01 | < ToxicFrog> | A lot of them, I think, have probably sailed through a lot of the earlier courses~ |
| 22:01 | < Derakon> | That really shouldn't happen past the intro courses. |
| 22:02 | | * Derakon arghs, has headache, heads off for midafternoon snacking. |
| 22:03 | < ToxicFrog> | Anyways. My hope is that they've just badly underestimated the workload, and will start the next assignment earlier, by which I mean right now because it was posted on tuesday. |
| 22:04 | < Namegduf> | I'm sure they'll start at least a few days sooner |
| 22:09 | < McMartin> | 13:52 < ToxicFrog> Third year parallel programming. |
| 22:09 | < McMartin> | 13:54 < ToxicFrog> It's not meant to be at all hard if they understand the material. |
| 22:09 | < McMartin> | I'm not actually convinced there are more than 100 people on Earth who actually understand parallel programming. -_- |
| 22:09 | < McMartin> | I'm not even sure there's a thousand that really get *mutexes* |
| 22:09 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 22:10 | < Simon_Shine> | the world's a big place |
| 22:10 | < McMartin> | That's why those numbers are so high |
| 22:11 | < celticminstrel> | My school actually teaches Python first, then Java and C at the same time. (Assuming you take the courses in the recommended order.) |
| 22:11 | | Syloqs_AFH [Syloq@NetworkAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 22:11 | < celticminstrel> | I don't get mutexes. |
| 22:11 | < Namegduf> | I've been doing a lot of parallel stuff recently |
| 22:11 | < Namegduf> | It's tricky |
| 22:11 | < Simon_Shine> | my school teaches Standard ML, then Java, then Python, then C. |
| 22:11 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: the whole point of this course is to fix this >.< |
| 22:12 | < ToxicFrog> | And the previous two years went great! |
| 22:12 | | Syloqs_AFH is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 22:12 | < Simon_Shine> | ToxicFrog, change of professor? :) |
| 22:12 | < ToxicFrog> | On the other hand, the previous two years it was CIS*4500 Special Topics in Computer Science, not CIS*3090 Parallel Programming. |
| 22:12 | < celticminstrel> | ML? |
| 22:12 | < Simon_Shine> | yup |
| 22:12 | < ToxicFrog> | Same prof, same course material, but it's changed from the Special Topics course to something with an actual title and course code. |
| 22:12 | < celticminstrel> | What's this? |
| 22:13 | < ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: a functional progamming language. |
| 22:13 | < Simon_Shine> | it's a functional language |
| 22:13 | < Simon_Shine> | sort of like Haskell, but different |
| 22:14 | < ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I'm speculating that there's some threshold it's crossed here, like maybe by the time students hit fourth year they have the experience to absorb this stuff better, or are used to starting assignments earlier, or something, and third-years haven't crossed that line yet? |
| 22:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Or maybe there's some other course in third year that's occupying most of their attention. |
| 22:17 | < McMartin> | It gets the history backwards, more or less, but Standard ML is what you would get if you cross Haskell and Scheme. |
| 22:17 | < McMartin> | (In practice, Haskell was the ML shifts taken up to 11) |
| 22:17 | < ToxicFrog> | (also, I stand by this statement: parallel programming is not hard. Parallel programming as it is usually taught, and as it exposed by most libraries, is.) |
| 22:17 | < ToxicFrog> | (In particular people seem to be able to wrap their heads around local-memory parallelism with synchronous message passing much more easily than shared-memory parallelism with locking) |
| 22:19 | < Namegduf> | ToxicFrog: Still hard to get right. |
| 22:19 | < Namegduf> | You need to avoid deadlocks, manage what communicates with what when |
| 22:20 | < Namegduf> | Less hard, though, yes |
| 22:20 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. That's easier with message passing, though, and much easier with message passing with predefined channels of communication. |
| 22:20 | < ToxicFrog> | (also, the library we're using has an optional deadlock-detection mode which they really should be using when debugging) |
| 22:36 | | * Derakon eyes this article on Facebook luring developers with difficult puzzles, as has been done occasionally in the past. |
| 22:36 | < Derakon> | "We developed this theory that occasionally there were these brilliant people out there who hadn't found their way to Silicon Valley." |
| 22:36 | < Derakon> | Is it me or is that just a little bit elitist? |
| 22:36 | < Derakon> | (Article link: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/the-rare-find-reinventing-recruiting-101320 11.html ) |
| 22:37 | < celticminstrel> | Why must brilliant people find their way to Silicon Valley? |
| 22:37 | < Derakon> | Because that's where Facebook is. |
| 22:41 | < Derakon> | Hello, earthquake. |
| 22:41 | < Derakon> | Outta here. |
| 22:41 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-f68d7eb4.ca.comcast.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 22:42 | < TheWatcher> | Bah. Fuck facebook sideways with a rusty pitchfork. |
| 22:44 | | Derakon [chriswei@Nightstar-f68d7eb4.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:44 | < Derakon> | Okay, so maybe it wasn't a very big quake. |
| 22:44 | < Derakon> | I guess going outside is overreacting. |
| 22:47 | < McMartin> | People in Silicon Valley who have to deal with developers outside of Silicon Valley end up getting the same dim view of the rest of the world that TW has with his co-workers and students. |
| 22:48 | < Derakon> | (McM, did you feel that quake?) |
| 22:48 | < Derakon> | Also, really? |
| 22:48 | < McMartin> | I did not feel it |
| 22:48 | < Derakon> | It only lasted a second or two. |
| 22:48 | | * McMartin was also walking by a crowded street |
| 22:48 | < Derakon> | Yeah, that could do it. |
| 22:49 | < McMartin> | I have in fact detected a certain level of area-based arrogance amongst Silicon Valley developers. |
| 22:49 | < McMartin> | Though it's usually less "occasionally there's someone awesome not here" and more "for God's sake, are we the only people who know how to play this game" |
| 22:50 | < Derakon> | Yeah, I was more questioning the implicit "and this attitude is justified" from your earlier statement. |
| 22:51 | < McMartin> | It's justified depending to the degree of exasperation one has with the people outside~ |
| 22:52 | < McMartin> | More seriously, outsourcing software development when you're in the Valley is either suicidal or evidence that you're already dead. |
| 22:52 | < Derakon> | I note that the most incompetent dev I ever had to deal with was a local, though granted I never actually met him. |
| 22:52 | < McMartin> | Sebastian? |
| 22:52 | < Derakon> | Yeah. |
| 22:52 | < McMartin> | Didn't he flee to Germany or something~ |
| 22:53 | < Derakon> | I think so, but he did his magnum opus, so to speak, while living here. |
| 23:00 | < McMartin> | Heh |
| 23:01 | < McMartin> | Yeah, if I'm being serious, I would think that the Valley has a higher average quality than elsewhere because they are in fact a tech worker magnet and a lot of companies have insanely selective interview processes... |
| 23:01 | < McMartin> | ... but my experience of this is that this means that a lot of the line programmers don't realize how high-tier they are until they get rudely reminded, which thanks to aforementioned interview processes is more likely than not to be with outsiders. |
| 23:02 | < celticminstrel> | Shifting the focus away from things like degrees isn't exactly a bad thing... |
| 23:02 | < McMartin> | Well, that's the other bit. Two of the places people *get* degrees in or near the Valley are widely recognized as among the finest in the world |
| 23:02 | < Derakon> | CM: I don't have an especial argument with the "lure devs by posting difficult puzzles" idea, just the attitude in that quotation. |
| 23:03 | < McMartin> | Yeah, I've never encountered that *particular* flavor |
| 23:03 | < McMartin> | It does jibe with my incredibly low opinion of Facebook, though not with the stories I heard from people who interviewed there. |
| 23:03 | < McMartin> | Who made it sound more like a cult. |
| 23:04 | < McMartin> | Maybe they've wised up a little but didn't quite get the other memo, which is that the lure should have something to do with the things you *actually do* |
| 23:04 | < celticminstrel> | True. |
| 23:04 | < McMartin> | (The question that kept coming up was apparently "what makes you passionate about social networking" and they didn't accept "I'm not, but you're doing a big global thing and I bet there's lots of interesting hard problems in there to solve" as an answer) |
| 23:05 | < McMartin> | (And that was 'didn't accept' not merely in the 'you wouldn't fit in here' sense but in the sense of 'wait, what?' |
| 23:05 | < McMartin> | ) |
| 23:05 | < Derakon> | Last time I was looking for a job, half the interviews were for social networks. |
| 23:05 | < TheWatcher> | I vaguely wonder though, having seen the crap that Facebook pass off as a web interface, just where thesebrillian people actually work. Because it sure as hell isn't on anything the public see >.> |
| 23:06 | < TheWatcher> | *these brilliant |
| 23:06 | < Derakon> | And, well, the only social networks I'm really on are LJ and LinkedIn. |
| 23:06 | < Derakon> | So no, I'm not passionate about social networks. |
| 23:06 | < Derakon> | But then, I'm also not working in marketing. |
| 23:07 | < McMartin> | Yeah, these people were developers |
| 23:07 | < McMartin> | TheWatcher: At a guess, global-scale dynamic load balancing on what had to have originally been a shoestring budget |
| 23:18 | < Derakon> | Hm, I don't think I can rightly consider this program to be small any more. |
| 23:18 | < Derakon> | 4534 lines of Python... |
| 23:20 | < Derakon> | Only 787 of which are comments. A bit below par, that. |
| 23:21 | < Derakon> | 726 are whitespace. |
| 23:25 | | celticminstrel is now known as celmin|away |
| 23:26 | < Simon_Shine> | my dungeon crawl API is about 200 lines of SML now. |
| 23:29 | < Derakon> | So the question is, which language best manages to meld terseness with comprehensibility? :) |
| 23:29 | < McMartin> | SML is on that shortlist. |
| 23:29 | < Derakon> | But how does it compare to Python? |
| 23:30 | < McMartin> | Python is rarely terse, IME |
| 23:30 | < Derakon> | (Python as I write it loses the terseness fight, but oh well) |
| --- Log closed Fri Oct 21 00:00:44 2011 |