| --- Log opened Wed Aug 31 00:00:39 2011 |
| 00:02 | < Stalker> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMfnvSgfnYk <- And this was the best rendition I could find of it, though it sounds an octave or two lower than the ones the crossings use. |
| 00:02 | < Stalker> | (The audio of the file on wikipedia is horrible.) |
| 00:07 | <@McMartin> | It's a little more... direct... than Ring Around The Rosie, isn't it |
| 00:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh lame, that was xchat being "smart" with colour codes |
| 00:26 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I saw the colour but didn't realize the implication |
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| 00:49 | < ToxicFrog> | Rhamphoryncus: you can turn that off if you like. |
| 01:35 | < gnolam> | Tsk. They couldn't just use a tick like the rest of us. |
| 01:41 | < ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 01:44 | < gnolam> | The Japanese. |
| 01:44 | < gnolam> | They couldn't just have a slow/fast ticking at crossings. They actually had to use a tune. |
| 01:47 | | kwsn is now known as kwsn|anime |
| 01:57 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ToxicFrog: ahh thanks. /set input_perc_color off |
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| 02:25 | < Vornicus> | Greetings, Programs. |
| 02:25 | <@McMartin> | RECTIFY |
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| 08:26 | < Vornicus-Latens> | So Horton Plaza made me think about Ducks Ahoy again. |
| 08:26 | < Vornicus-Latens> | or rather Vorns Ahoy. |
| 08:27 | < Reiver> | Huzzah |
| 08:27 | < Vornicus-Latens> | (Horton Plaza is a multi-floor open air mall.) |
| 08:35 | < Vash> | In San Diego. |
| 08:37 | < Vornicus-Latens> | (and the stairways, half-covered, stretching between the two sides, reminded me of the bridges in the !Venice of Ducks Ahoy) |
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| 13:13 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> Hope Driven Development - a software development technique in which an application is developed in a long unplanned development cycle, with minimal "Steve Irwin-style testing", all with the hope that everything will work as intended when released. |
| 13:13 | <@froztbyte> | <cocooncrash> asyn: ^ :-( |
| 13:13 | <@froztbyte> | <asyn> cocooncrash: That's "George Michael Development" - you gotta have faith. |
| 13:13 | <@froztbyte> | from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2349378/new-programming-jargon-you-coined?pag e=1&tab=Votes |
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| 18:16 | < gnolam> | ... ok, GOG are officially awesome. |
| 18:24 | < TheWatcher> | Oh? |
| 18:43 | < Alek> | who? |
| 18:43 | < Alek> | also, that reminded me of GOD Games. |
| 18:46 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: gog.com? |
| 18:46 | < ToxicFrog> | Publisher of older (DOS/win9x, mostly) games, updated to run on modern systems? |
| 18:46 | < Alek> | ahh k |
| 18:46 | < Alek> | righto. |
| 18:47 | < Alek> | wonder if they have the Ultima series. XD |
| 18:47 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 18:48 | < ToxicFrog> | They just got EA on board earlier this summer and have been releasing a new batch of EA games every few weeks. |
| 18:48 | < gnolam> | Creating an account took no time at all (and required an absolute minimum of information) and buying a game then took equally little time. |
| 18:48 | < ToxicFrog> | Most recently Wing Commander 1+2, Dungeon Keeper 2, and Ultima 1-3 (with the rest planned) |
| 18:48 | < gnolam> | And for roughly the price of a Big Mac I got M.A.X. 1 & 2, DRM-free and fully redownlodable. |
| 18:48 | < gnolam> | And they downloaded over HTTP at 9.1 MB/s. :o |
| 18:49 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, GOG is pretty sweet. |
| 18:49 | < gnolam> | *redownloadable |
| 18:50 | < gnolam> | (The weak dollar helps, of course) |
| 18:50 | < ToxicFrog> | (also, this probably doesn't apply to MAX, but in general the GOG forum for any given game will have links to fan-patches, graphical upgrades, etc not included in the GOG download) |
| 18:53 | < Alek> | so, they're Steam for OLD games? XD |
| 18:54 | < ToxicFrog> | Arguably better, actually. |
| 18:54 | < Alek> | but I shouldn't talk, Steam has Commander Keen. XD |
| 18:54 | < gnolam> | No, they don't require an enormous DRM-laden clusterfuck. |
| 18:54 | < Alek> | and a bunch of Genesis games. <_< |
| 18:54 | < Alek> | well, Steam's AWESOME for indie and old-ish games. |
| 18:54 | < ToxicFrog> | There's no client, the games just download as stand-alone installers that work entirely offline; most of the games come with soundtracks, PDF manuals, artwork, etc; and the prices are all in the $6-$10 range. |
| 18:55 | < Alek> | the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight saga, the old Doom-types, etc. |
| 18:55 | < Alek> | hrm. |
| 18:55 | < ToxicFrog> | GOG is a lot better for old games that Steam is. |
| 18:55 | < Alek> | anywho. |
| 18:55 | < ToxicFrog> | All of Steam's old games are there because a current developer (Id, LucasArts) decided to upload their back catalog as well. |
| 18:56 | < Alek> | and I am SO grateful for that. XD |
| 18:56 | < ToxicFrog> | Whereas GOG's business model revolves around releasing old games that are often no longer sold anywhere else, where the developer and, in some cases, publisher are long gone. |
| 18:56 | < gnolam> | Alek: If you define "AWESOME" as "expensive, requiring a buggy-ass program that takes longer to start than my fucking OS and requires you to be online to play". |
| 18:56 | < Alek> | oh, reminds me. I should play the Indiana Jones games sometime. since I have them anyway. XD |
| 18:57 | < Alek> | welp. gnolam: 2 things. it starts FAST on all our machines, and we CAN play offline, once initial setup has been performed. |
| 18:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Drawbacks of GOG relative to Steam: no automatic updates (although this is rarely a problem), the sales aren't as good (although this is offset by generally lower initial prices), and there's no overlay or matchmaking features (although you can always run GOG games inside Steam to get the overlay). |
| 18:57 | < Alek> | and it's been amazingly stable. |
| 18:57 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, yeah, gnolam, have you actually used Steam since 2003? |
| 18:57 | < Alek> | from when I started using it. |
| 18:57 | < Alek> | which was about 05-07 somewhere. |
| 18:58 | < Alek> | you can run pretty much ANY game inside Steam for the overlay. XD |
| 18:58 | < ToxicFrog> | I started using it when it was first released and it was actually pretty slow and buggy, although I was willing to put up with that (since the alternative was getting my Half-Life disks shipped to me from another city). |
| 18:58 | < gnolam> | ToxicFrog: ... yeeees, I got paid to develop a Source-based mod. That's what turned my dislike for Steam into white-hot hate. :P |
| 18:58 | < Alek> | I just wonder if any games already utilize that key combo... >_> |
| 18:58 | < ToxicFrog> | It's improved massively since then, though. |
| 18:58 | < Alek> | ahh... sorry to hear that, gnolam. |
| 18:58 | < Alek> | it HAS improved massively. |
| 18:58 | < ToxicFrog> | As a client, it's ok; as a service it's pretty much unparalleled for non-legacy stuff. |
| 18:59 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: there are, but you can rebind the key combo used for overlay, so... |
| 18:59 | < Alek> | and it's pretty damn good for the legacy games I HAVE played. XD |
| 18:59 | < Alek> | it IS a little disturbing to play games that have both Steam and Live overlays. XD |
| 19:00 | < ToxicFrog> | God, fuck Live. |
| 19:00 | < Alek> | lol |
| 19:00 | < ToxicFrog> | I put up with it for Arkham Asylum, but I wish it would just die already. |
| 19:00 | < ToxicFrog> | It's worse than Steam was in 2003 and hasn't improved at all in the years it's existed. |
| 19:00 | < gnolam> | People keep claiming that you're supposed to be able to play even if your connection (or the shitty Steam servers, which are apparently hosted on VIC-20s or something) is down. |
| 19:00 | < Alek> | Arkham, FO3, uh. Bioshock 2. |
| 19:00 | < gnolam> | Never worked for me. |
| 19:00 | < Alek> | B3 is probably gonna be Live too. |
| 19:01 | < gnolam> | It's either part of their massive bug set, or it's yet another one of Valve's "let's screw over Europe" kind of deals. |
| 19:01 | < Alek> | gnolam: put in a ticket? offline gaming's always worked for me. |
| 19:01 | < ToxicFrog> | gnolam: tick "remember password" when you log in. Restart steam when you don't have a network connection and it'll say "can't connect to steam, do you want to start in offline mode" and you click "yes". |
| 19:01 | < ToxicFrog> | Works fine. |
| 19:01 | < gnolam> | Yeah, that's what people claim is supposed to happen. Instead of "can't authenticate, now go screw yourself". |
| 19:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: haven't played FO3 or Bioshock 2. Did play Flatout UC, but then Live at all of my saves and I haven't really had the will to go back to it. |
| 19:02 | < Alek> | Section 8 is also Live. but since I finished the short campaign, it's unlikely I'm gonna be back to it, unless they release story expansions. |
| 19:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Oh yeah, Section 8. |
| 19:02 | < ToxicFrog> | That was the game where I discovered that Live's "don't display achievements" setting doesn't actually do anything. |
| 19:02 | < ToxicFrog> | Each headshot resulted in a flashing popup and fanfare. |
| 19:02 | < Alek> | pfft. |
| 19:02 | < Alek> | I think the achievements were actually hardcoded into that game. |
| 19:03 | < Alek> | since you needed certain ones to unlock equipment. |
| 19:03 | < gnolam> | And again: takes ages to start. I seriously get from power on to desktop in less time than it takes for Steam to start. |
| 19:03 | < ToxicFrog> | gnolam: double-check that you have "remember password" ticked and if so file a support ticket, then? That is, in fact, how it works. |
| 19:03 | < ToxicFrog> | Alternately, get your computer looked at, because that really doesn't sound right. |
| 19:03 | < ToxicFrog> | (total time to start Steam cold: 12 seconds) |
| 19:03 | < Alek> | what's your OS? |
| 19:04 | < Alek> | yeah, it's fast here too. |
| 19:04 | < Alek> | maybe yours is buggy? have you tried uninstalling and reinstalling? XD |
| 19:04 | < gnolam> | Windows 7. But this was also true for Vista and XP. |
| 19:04 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, I have to say |
| 19:04 | < ToxicFrog> | Even if the Steam client were still the ugly, slow, unstable thing it was back in 2003 |
| 19:04 | < gnolam> | And the previous machine. |
| 19:04 | < ToxicFrog> | I'd probably still be using it, because the Steam service is fantastic. |
| 19:04 | < Alek> | yeaaah, I suspect a conflict with something else you have installed. maybe your firewall or AV? |
| 19:05 | < gnolam> | ... yees, because that would persist over several computers and operating systems. |
| 19:05 | < gnolam> | Also: don't use AV. |
| 19:05 | | * Alek shrugs. |
| 19:05 | < Alek> | ok, I guess you've just had awful luck. |
| 19:05 | < gnolam> | ToxicFrog: ... what's so fantastic about it? |
| 19:06 | < ToxicFrog> | I have played a lot of excellent indie games through Steam that I would never even have heard of otherwise, and gotten a lot of great games that would normally cost me $40-$60 ($30 used, if I'm lucky) for <$10. |
| 19:06 | < Alek> | it takes care of ALL the installing and patching, automatically. and the setup, on first run of any game. PAINLESS. also, what TF said. |
| 19:06 | < ToxicFrog> | On top of that, there's the convenience of never having to faff around with discs, ever, or manually finding and downloading patches. |
| 19:07 | < ToxicFrog> | It's much cheaper and much more convenient than basically any other means of acquiring games I've ever used. |
| 19:07 | < Alek> | old games from the win9x, 3.1, and DOS era, in (mostly) painless compatibility. just gotta tweak some settings in-game sometimes - the first 2 Dark Forces games had some settings that weren't fully compatible with my card, for example. |
| 19:08 | | * Alek high-fives TF |
| 19:08 | < gnolam> | Well, fun for you to live in a non-fucked-over region. |
| 19:08 | | * Alek would recommend submitting a ticket? >_> |
| 19:08 | < ToxicFrog> | Now, granted, it helps that I'm in Canada, which means I'm not getting fucked up $1 = 1 euro prices. |
| 19:09 | < gnolam> | We get all the shittiness of Steam with ~25-50% higher prices over retail. If you for some reason would like to buy stuff on Steam. |
| 19:09 | < ToxicFrog> | But even if you're in Europe you can easily get someone in NA to gift you the games at US or Canada prices. |
| 19:09 | < gnolam> | So yeah: fuck you, Valve. |
| 19:09 | < ToxicFrog> | And then you can take advantage of Europe's generally non-shitty internet to install them! |
| 19:09 | < Alek> | yeah. gifting. this. |
| 19:09 | < Alek> | THIS. |
| 19:09 | < ToxicFrog> | Also, blaming Valve for the fucked up regional pricing is completely nonsensical. |
| 19:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Because Valve do not actually set the prices. |
| 19:10 | < Alek> | and THE SALES, MY GOD, THE SALES! |
| 19:10 | < ToxicFrog> | You may note that depending on developer/publisher, some games actually have reasonable pricing in EU! |
| 19:10 | < ToxicFrog> | Well, except in some countries where retail has a gun to their head. |
| 19:10 | < Alek> | in fact, iirc, they SOMETIMES give a game away for free. XD |
| 19:11 | < ToxicFrog> | And yeah, bear in mind that when discussing prices I am basically talking only about sale prices, because you'd be crazy to buy games on Steam when not on sale, because the sales are constant. |
| 19:11 | < ToxicFrog> | Even if it's 50% over retail normally, when it goes on sale at 90% off, you still win. |
| 19:11 | < gnolam> | ... wait. You mean Valve, who runs the whole service - Valve, who divided up the regions - Valve, who set USD == EUR - Valve, who prices their own games at "you've got to be shitting me" prices - is /not/ to blame? |
| 19:11 | < gnolam> | That's some interesting logic. |
| 19:12 | < Alek> | they're not to blame for other publishers' high prices. |
| 19:12 | < gnolam> | What about their own? |
| 19:12 | < gnolam> | Or the whole goddamn region mess to begin with? |
| 19:13 | < Alek> | wait for sales. that is all. |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Wait, you're blaming Valve for the existence of region divisions in gaming? |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Something that's been around since at least the 80s? |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | I had no idea that they had a time machine. |
| 19:13 | < Alek> | and they often have new and upcoming games at a 10% discount over in-store retail anyway. |
| 19:13 | < gnolam> | Yes. I do blame them for it. |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | (if the prices for Valve's games are fucked, check to make sure retail in your country isn't fucking with them. If not, yeah, blame away.) |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Ok, so you're crazy. |
| 19:13 | < ToxicFrog> | Good to know. |
| 19:14 | < Alek> | pffft |
| 19:14 | < gnolam> | Just so you know, the regions are not like the old console regions. |
| 19:14 | < gnolam> | These are Valve Special Regions. |
| 19:14 | < gnolam> | So Europe is divided into several zones. |
| 19:14 | < gnolam> | For example. |
| 19:14 | < gnolam> | And ooooh - 10% discount! That just makes it, what, 10+% higher than retail. |
| 19:14 | < ToxicFrog> | Have you actually done any research on this, or are you just looking for excuses to bitch at Valve? |
| 19:15 | < gnolam> | What kind of research do you mean? |
| 19:15 | < ToxicFrog> | For example, have you noticed that retail prices also vary drastically between region, and often so does the actual game content? |
| 19:16 | < ToxicFrog> | Germany usually has low-violence versions whether you get it on Steam or not. Russia's prices are dirt cheap compared to both the EU and NA. Etc. |
| 19:16 | < ToxicFrog> | This is true whether you buy on Steam or not. |
| 19:16 | < ToxicFrog> | On top of that, the game retailers still have a lot of power - for example, in the UK at least, releases on Steam are often delayed or priced higher or both, because if they aren't the retail game stores will refuse to carry the game entirely. |
| 19:18 | < gnolam> | Facts: 1) Steam has regions. 2) These are not the regions of old, but inventions of Valve's. 3) They set prices in USD, and have an insane exchange rate. |
| 19:18 | < gnolam> | QED. |
| 19:18 | < ToxicFrog> | (2) and (3) are outright false, sorry. |
| 19:18 | < gnolam> | Naturally. Can't be Valve's fault. It /has/ to be someone else's. |
| 19:19 | < ToxicFrog> | Steam's regions follow the regions used by prior international publishers like EA; Valve is responsible for the pricing of their own games across regions, but not anyone else's. |
| 19:19 | < ToxicFrog> | Yeah, Valve could simply declare "no regions, no price differences: if you want your game on Steam, you sell it at the same price everywhere". |
| 19:19 | < ToxicFrog> | And if they did that, half of their catalogue would vanish overnight and they'd be sued. |
| 19:20 | < TheWatcher> | (because publishers are retarded) |
| 19:20 | < gnolam> | So explain the pricing of their own games then? |
| 19:20 | < ToxicFrog> | Fuck if I know. I'm not saying Valve are shining paragons are virtue here, just that blaming solely Valve for the crimes of, basically, every PC game publisher that's existed in the past decade is crazy. |
| 19:22 | < Alek> | actually. 10% CHEAPER than retail. |
| 19:23 | < ToxicFrog> | This is pervasive enough that when a game sees a release that is actually priced the same way everywhere, whether it's on Steam or not, this is often News. |
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| 19:24 | < ToxicFrog> | Furthermore - yeah, I have it good because I'm in NA and benefit from the favourable pricing most publishers give NA releases, doubly so with the US dollar in the shitter. But even in the EU, Steam is still fantastically cheap if you wait for a sale, get someone in NA to gift you the game, or both. |
| 19:26 | < Stalker> | Yeah, over here in europe Steam isn't really cheaper than retail, it's just on steam. |
| 19:26 | < ToxicFrog> | Stalker: yes, we've already discussed this, at length. |
| 19:26 | < Stalker> | Just confirming, not reopening. |
| 19:26 | <@Tarinaky> | 2 minutes is hardly thread necromancy :p |
| 19:27 | < ToxicFrog> | (this is in fact why the Steam thread on SA has a section devoted to organizing cross-region gifting) |
| 19:27 | < Alek> | ahaha |
| 19:30 | < ToxicFrog> | (getting shafted by EU pricing? PM any of <list of names> to get it at NA prices instead! Payment accepted via Paypal, in Steam games, or in some cases, in TF2 hats) |
| 19:30 | < Alek> | LOL |
| 19:30 | < ToxicFrog> | Anyways, unwinding the stack a bit, I think we can all at least agree that GOG is awesome on their own merits and, for stuff released prior to 2005 or so, completely outclasses Steam. |
| 19:31 | < Alek> | you can often enough pick up super-cheap publisher bundles, and then split up the games for gifting. XD |
| 19:31 | < Alek> | welp. does GOG have HL2? |
| 19:32 | < Alek> | if not, I'd push it down to stuff released prior to 2001 or so. :P |
| 19:32 | <@Tarinaky> | Do people in europe even go to gaming stores any more? |
| 19:32 | <@Tarinaky> | They're like... the one high street store that has no-one in them all day. |
| 19:33 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: nothing but Steam has HL2, it's a Steamworks game. |
| 19:33 | <@Tarinaky> | Woolworths got more traffic than that and they went bankrupt! |
| 19:33 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: HL2 was on retail shelves when it first came out. |
| 19:33 | | * Tarinaky bought HL2 retail and has a CD with a glorified steam installer :p |
| 19:33 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: yes. And required Steam to install and play. |
| 19:34 | < ToxicFrog> | When you bought a retail copy of HL2, you were buying a Steam key for it and a GCF package that let you skip most of the download. |
| 19:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Pretty much. |
| 19:34 | < ToxicFrog> | This was before Steamworks was a thing, but these days games released like that are branded Steamworks. |
| 19:34 | <@Tarinaky> | Steamworks was a thing back then. |
| 19:35 | <@Tarinaky> | It only had 2 games on it. |
| 19:35 | <@Tarinaky> | But it was a thing. |
| 19:35 | <@Tarinaky> | I've not figured out how to use the CD on an existing install of Steam though. |
| 19:35 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: They do, however, have Spellforce, Witcher 1 and 2, Arx Fatalis, Age of Wonders SM, Descent 3, Ground Control 1 and 2, Painkiller, Perimeter, and Psychonauts. |
| 19:35 | < ToxicFrog> | So. |
| 19:36 | < ToxicFrog> | Tarinaky: "Steam" and "Steamworks" are different things. |
| 19:36 | <@Tarinaky> | ToxicFrog: They were selling games online through steam. |
| 19:36 | < ToxicFrog> | Yes. Not the same thing. |
| 19:36 | <@Tarinaky> | Steamworks is the store, no? |
| 19:36 | < ToxicFrog> | No. |
| 19:36 | <@Tarinaky> | What is it then? |
| 19:36 | < ToxicFrog> | If you're a developer, "Steamworks" is a set of dev tools and an API for integrating your game with Steam. |
| 19:37 | < ToxicFrog> | If you're a gamer, "Steamworks" is a label that means "this game requires Steam to run, and comes with Steam achievements and matchmaking support and whatnot" |
| 19:37 | <@Tarinaky> | I think the API existed, just wasn't released. |
| 19:37 | <@Tarinaky> | I can't remember but I seem to recall HL2 having the Shift-Tab thing from day 1. |
| 19:37 | <@Tarinaky> | I might be misremembering though. |
| 19:38 | < ToxicFrog> | Specifically, if a game is Steamworks, it doesn't mean "sold through Steam", it means "runs only through Steam, and is guaranteed to integrate with Steam's other features" |
| 19:38 | < ToxicFrog> | And, as a term and a marketing label, it dates from 2008. |
| 19:38 | <@Tarinaky> | I've got quite a few games that are Steamworks and Windows Live. |
| 19:39 | <@Tarinaky> | That is to say, having bought them through Steam I effectively have two dashboards that require me to be logged in and online twice. |
| 19:39 | < Alek> | ooh. |
| 19:39 | <@Namegduf> | "Sold through steam" does not imply "Steamworks" |
| 19:39 | < ToxicFrog> | If they were Steamworks, they would not be GFWL. |
| 19:39 | < ToxicFrog> | You seem to be persistently misunderstanding this |
| 19:39 | <@Namegduf> | *Steam |
| 19:39 | < Alek> | oh. Steam has Painkiller. not sure about the others. |
| 19:39 | < ToxicFrog> | Not all games on Steam are Steamworks games |
| 19:40 | <@McMartin> | The Shift-Tab thing is a totally different process. |
| 19:40 | <@McMartin> | You can make Notepad have it. |
| 19:40 | <@Namegduf> | All Steamworks games require Steam, even sold at retail. Not all games sold on or played through Steam are Steamworks. |
| 19:40 | < ToxicFrog> | ^ This. |
| 19:41 | <@Namegduf> | In general, if a game sold at retail requires Steam, it will be branded "Steamworks", as of "Steamworks" becoming a brand. |
| 19:41 | < gnolam> | ToxicFrog: no, these particular regions are wholly Valve's invention. |
| 19:41 | < ToxicFrog> | When I described HL2 as Steamworks, what I meant there is that while you could buy it at retail (when it was released, anyways), all you were buying was a Steam key; the game can only be installed and run through Steam. Most Steamworks games see at least some degree of retail release, you just need Steam to play them. |
| 19:41 | < gnolam> | They didn't invent regions in general, but they drew up the maps for these ones. |
| 19:41 | < ToxicFrog> | On the other hand, I bought, for example, Painkiller through Steam, but it's not a Steamworks game; if I'd bought it on disc, it wouldn't need (or support) Steam. |
| 19:43 | <@Tarinaky> | In other news. I've been reading through and playing with an engine. It has a class for doing LOD terrain. How do you do LOD on other stuff? |
| 19:43 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: it has some of those - I know it has Age of Wonders SM and Psychonauts, as well - but typically for higher prices. |
| 19:43 | < ToxicFrog> | And some of them (Descent 3, Ground Control 1+2, for example) are pretty much only sold through GOG. |
| 19:44 | < ToxicFrog> | But yeah, basically, pre-2000, GOG's where it's at. 2000-2005, there's a fair amount of overlap between them. 2005+, GOG has a few games but Steam completely demolishes them. |
| 19:45 | < Alek> | I picked up Painkiller in a whole set, as part of a publisher bundle. came REAL cheap. |
| 19:46 | | * Alek is a leetle upset that his profile is apparently incompatible with Steam Calculator. XD |
| 19:46 | < ToxicFrog> | I think you need to set up a Community page for it to work, or something. |
| 19:48 | < gnolam> | And while they could have been forced to do by a cabal of violent publishers saying "divide into zese countries wiz zese prices or ze bunny gets it!", I find it much more likely that they introduced their own regions and then went to the publishers and said "Look, you can probably fleece people some more here. Would you like to?". |
| 19:48 | < Alek> | I coulda sworn I HAD one. <_< |
| 19:48 | < Alek> | can you check for me? omegaboot is me >_> |
| 19:48 | <@Tarinaky> | I was under the impression that the Steam regions were less onerous than the standard retail ones. |
| 19:48 | < ToxicFrog> | Alek: http://www.ddgamer.com/worth.php?account=omegaboot |
| 19:49 | < ToxicFrog> | IWFM. |
| 19:49 | < ToxicFrog> | And now, hair trimming. |
| 19:49 | < gnolam> | And "someone in another country could send it to you" is NOT a good argument. Besides the obvious trust and payment issues, you can do that with a physical copy as well. |
| 19:50 | <@Tarinaky> | Apparently some time between Deus Ex being released in the stats and over here Steam changed something to prevent people using Proxies to bypass the release date. |
| 19:50 | <@Tarinaky> | *the states |
| 19:50 | <@Namegduf> | Accounts get locked for doing that. |
| 19:51 | <@Namegduf> | You *might* not but, er, be prepared if you have to wait for a month minus three days after release for trying to get it three days early. |
| 20:11 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 20:32 | | * Tarinaky thinks his question got lost in the argument so repeats. |
| 20:32 | <@Tarinaky> | I've been reading through and playing with an engine. It has a class for doing LOD terrain. How do you do LOD on other stuff? |
| 20:34 | <@McMartin> | LOD? |
| 20:37 | < gnolam> | Level Of Detail. |
| 20:37 | < Alek> | woo, $1500 worth of games |
| 20:37 | < gnolam> | Tarinaky: whole bunch of different approaches. |
| 20:37 | < gnolam> | It also depends on what "other stuff" means. |
| 20:37 | <@Tarinaky> | "In general." |
| 20:38 | <@Tarinaky> | I'd be more specific if my question was more specific :p |
| 20:38 | < gnolam> | Common method: multi-resolution meshes. |
| 20:39 | <@Tarinaky> | Probably most likely procedurally generated other stuff. |
| 20:39 | <@Tarinaky> | But I don't think that really matters. |
| 20:39 | < gnolam> | Create x different versions of each mesh, switch between depending on distance. |
| 20:39 | < gnolam> | +them |
| 20:40 | < gnolam> | For vegetation, impostors are your friend. |
| 20:40 | < gnolam> | As for dynamic methods, they tend to be a bit... jarring. |
| 20:41 | | celticminstrel [celticminst@Nightstar-5d22ab1d.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 20:41 | <@Tarinaky> | Imposters are billboards/quadrangles right? |
| 20:41 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 20:42 | < gnolam> | Specifically, dynamically rendered billboards. |
| 20:42 | < gnolam> | Anyway. For dynamic LODing of meshes, there are a gazillion different methods. |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | Each with their own strenghts and weaknesses. |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | *strenghts |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | Dammit |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | *strengths |
| 20:43 | < gnolam> | Can't type today. |
| 20:43 | < Alek> | oh wow |
| 20:43 | < Alek> | Big Spender: TechAnalyst spent $17,138.52 USD |
| 20:43 | <@Tarinaky> | That's alright. |
| 20:44 | <@Tarinaky> | gnolam: Is there anything I should read up on to familiarise myself with these methods? |
| 20:45 | < gnolam> | Hmm |
| 20:45 | <@Tarinaky> | Rather than pester you to describe every single one of them :p |
| 20:45 | < gnolam> | Can't think of any good summary, sorry. |
| 20:46 | < gnolam> | My best advice to you is to search through SIGGRAPH papers or similar and read up on specific methods, and choose one you think you can implement. |
| 20:46 | < Alek> | if packages are disabled, $1758 worth. XD |
| 20:48 | < Alek> | with packages disabled, the above TechAnalyst has 19k worth. |
| 20:49 | <@Tarinaky> | Alright, thanks. |
| 22:28 | < Alek> | yellow5: I invented a new TV show. Battle of the IT Psychics. The best admins get into their users' heads and try to guess what they did and why "nothing woooorks". |
| 22:31 | <@Namegduf> | XD |
| 22:36 | < Alek> | "The phone rings at 2 in the morning, unknown number. I pick it up and get ready to curse someone out. 'Yes?' 'Johnny has two apples while Petey has a penguin. Which of the two kids can boast a beard at the age of nine?' The prepared large buffer of choice words somehow cleared itself from my head, unnoticed." |
| 22:39 | <@Namegduf> | I don't know what you're writing or what that is, but I want more of it. |
| 22:44 | < Alek> | Russian bash. |
| 23:16 | < gnolam> | IZBASh? |
| 23:16 | < gnolam> | Or possibly "Kalbashnikov". |
| 23:20 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-f7eedefa.80-203-17.nextgentel.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 23:50 | < Alek> | bash.org.ru |
| 23:50 | < Alek> | BOR for short. |
| 23:58 | < gnolam> | Pfft. |
| 23:58 | < gnolam> | Leonid Bashnev. |
| --- Log closed Thu Sep 01 00:00:54 2011 |