| --- Log opened Mon Aug 01 00:00:52 2011 |
| 00:22 | | Kindamoody|out is now known as Kindamoody |
| 00:24 | | Tarinaky [tarinaky@Nightstar-dd7e4a05.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
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| 01:04 | | * McMartin starts looking at his long-neglected UQM bug list. |
| 01:05 | < AnnoDomini> | It has bugs? |
| 01:06 | < AnnoDomini> | I've never encountered any. |
| 01:07 | <@McMartin> | Very long list |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | A lot of the stuff left is QoL things, which is what I'm cleaning up now. |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | A few other things are corner case plot inconsistencies where the game spews nonsense or doesn't quite do the right thing. |
| 01:08 | <@McMartin> | A lot of those revolve around the Melnorme-rescuing-you-from-hyperspace sequence that no real player ever sees. >_> |
| 01:09 | < AnnoDomini> | I saw that sequence several times. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | Others are working around unfortunate bugs in the original where important lines aren't recorded so they just give the wrong lines. |
| 01:09 | <@McMartin> | And then there's still apparently some control issues on non-US keyboards that I really ought to hit up. |
| 01:14 | <@McMartin> | 138 open bugs at the moment, though: https://bugs.uqm.stack.nl/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc &bug_status=__open__&product=&content= |
| 01:15 | < AnnoDomini> | Not quite the DF bug tracker. ;p |
| 01:15 | <@McMartin> | It helps to start by inheriting code that basically worked for ten years, yes~ |
| 01:16 | | * AnnoDomini looks at DF's BT. 1997 open, 1937 resolved. |
| 01:16 | <@McMartin> | Hey, we have exactly 1,000 resolved! |
| 01:17 | < AnnoDomini> | How many are duplicates? |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | Probably a few dozen. |
| 01:17 | < gnolam> | AnnoDomini: and there are probably 5000 nobody's even bothered to file. :P |
| 01:17 | < AnnoDomini> | gnolam: Agreed. |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | It's very rare for player to directly file bugs - it's usually people writing mods. |
| 01:17 | <@McMartin> | Everyone else bitches on the forums~ |
| 01:17 | < AnnoDomini> | Well, I'm one of those players who file bugs. |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | Or don't, because for the past seven years most players won't *hit* bugs in normal playthroughs. |
| 01:18 | <@McMartin> | As you noted originally. |
| 01:18 | < gnolam> | It's usually a pain in the arse to file bugs (and bug tracking systems in general suck at usability), though, so... |
| 01:19 | < AnnoDomini> | Never had problems filing bugs in what they use (MantisBT). Now, searching existing bugs... |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | Mantis is kinda wacky |
| 01:19 | < gnolam> | That's the "suck at usability part". |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | Mantis is, however, better than Bugzilla by every metric I can think of. |
| 01:19 | | * McMartin probably has the most experience with Trac. |
| 01:19 | < gnolam> | But a stupid number of projects require you to create an account somewhere to file a bug. And that's where it crosses the "too much work" threshold. |
| 01:20 | < gnolam> | I kinda liked Trac on that one project where I've used it, actually. |
| 01:20 | <@McMartin> | Well, that also leads to the other bit, which is "I don't actually care about this bug, I just want to bitch in a place the developers will hear" |
| 01:21 | <@McMartin> | Trac's searchability is solid if you have extremely disciplined bug reporters. It seems to be superb for focused corporate-style environments but I strongly suspect it loses a lot of utility if you use it for a public project. |
| 01:21 | < gnolam> | Ah, yes. This was all for internal use. |
| 01:22 | <@McMartin> | And when it's internal you can also pre-define a bunch of really useful reports and just basically get your to-do list for the week by loading a bookmark. |
| 01:23 | < AnnoDomini> | I remember I had lots of fun specifically making a situation to show off a particular bug in all its glory. I uploaded a save, provided instructions, detailed a potentially new way it breaks... and it got marked as a duplicate within minutes of submission. Then another admin actually read my description, reverted the duplicate marking, and marked the original report as the duplicate, because mine was exhaustive. |
| 01:23 | <@McMartin> | It's been known to happen. |
| 01:28 | < AnnoDomini> | I am a bit disappoint that you still get escaping prisoners when you send cages with non-tame creatures in them to the deport, but oh well. |
| 01:43 | < gnolam> | I still haven't gotten around to playing the "new" Dwarf Fortress version. |
| 01:44 | < Tarinaky> | There's a new version? |
| 01:44 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
| 01:44 | < AnnoDomini> | Tarinaky: I think he's talking about DF2010. |
| 01:44 | < AnnoDomini> | Otherwise known as 0.31.XX. |
| 01:45 | < gnolam> | Whichever version it was that completely changed the map layering etc. |
| 01:45 | < AnnoDomini> | The one that introduced the caverns and magma sea and Hell? |
| 01:46 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 01:46 | < AnnoDomini> | That's DF2010. |
| 01:46 | < gnolam> | Well, the magma sea anyway. Don't know about the other two. |
| 01:46 | < AnnoDomini> | I think Toady's close to releasing a new version.. |
| 01:47 | < gnolam> | Didn't feel like relearning the painful interface for something everyone said was broken anyway. :P |
| 01:47 | < AnnoDomini> | The UI is perfectly usable. |
| 01:47 | < AnnoDomini> | It is painful, but that doesn't make it broken. |
| 01:47 | < gnolam> | ... hah |
| 01:47 | < gnolam> | That's probably the first time someone's called DF's UI "perfectly usable". |
| 01:48 | < AnnoDomini> | The problem appears to be that Toady doesn't believe in standard UI. Therefore, his UIs are, well, his UIs. |
| 01:49 | < gnolam> | Anyway, the "broken" was in reference to the actual game. The new features were apparently buggy as hell, and half of the old ones had broken completely in the process as well. |
| 01:50 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 01:50 | < gnolam> | And the guy's priorities are... weird... to say the least. |
| 01:50 | < AnnoDomini> | The initial release was completely broken. Over the 24 bugfixes, it is playable. Hell, the healthcare almost works. |
| 01:51 | < gnolam> | At the top of the list is always "background crap nobody cares about", while "fix broken features" apparently end up near the bottom. |
| 01:51 | | * Tarinaky sniggers. |
| 01:51 | < Tarinaky> | gnolam: The Dwarf Fortress mode is the background crap. The adventure mode is meant to be the real thrust of the game. |
| 01:51 | < AnnoDomini> | Dentistry is still non-functional. As is dealing with spinal injuries. |
| 01:51 | < Tarinaky> | Hence why it gets the most feature adds. |
| 01:52 | < Tarinaky> | While the Fortress mode everyone plays is the red headed stepchild. |
| 01:53 | < AnnoDomini> | Hey, I play Adventure Mode. It is occassionally fun. |
| 01:54 | < AnnoDomini> | I am only a tiny bit upset over the material handling issues leading to things made out of bronze being completely invulnerable to any lesser material. |
| 01:55 | < AnnoDomini> | The damage system needs help. I had a berserk axe lord set upon by his squad. He fell unconscious. The squad proceeded to lay headshot upon headshot with their axes. |
| 01:55 | < AnnoDomini> | He had a helmet. All blows deflected off it. |
| 01:55 | | * Tarinaky sniggers. |
| 01:56 | < AnnoDomini> | Then the recruit who was supposed to replace him stepped in, unarmed, and punched his face into his brain in one hit. |
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| 03:02 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody[zZz] |
| 03:07 | < kwsn> | remember kids |
| 03:07 | < kwsn> | LOSING IS FUN |
| 03:09 | < AnnoDomini> | Ayup. |
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| 05:35 | < Reivles> | That is something of an infrastructural bug, really |
| 05:36 | < Reivles> | That the writers haven't yet clicked that The Sims: Horrible Slaughter Edition is the part mostly worth putting effort into; the Adventure mode is trying to compete with, well, nethack. |
| 05:36 | < Reivles> | Which already won. :P |
| 05:36 | < Derakon> | It's trying to compete with Minecraft. |
| 05:37 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 05:40 | < Reivles> | Derakon: What, Fortress Mode? Only tangenitally. |
| 05:40 | < Derakon> | No, Adventure Mode will eventually let you do everything dwarves can do in Fortress Mode. |
| 05:40 | < Derakon> | It's just not there yet. |
| 05:41 | < Reivles> | Peh |
| 05:41 | < Reivles> | Minecraft is legos; while you can play Legos in DF, it's the civilisation management that's the real aspect. |
| 05:47 | <@Vornicus> | DF's other big problem is that he goes for lots and lots and lots of completely useless detail |
| 05:47 | <@Vornicus> | I mean, there's, what |
| 05:48 | <@Vornicus> | dozens if not hundreds of stone types? |
| 05:49 | <@Vornicus> | Minecraft has, um. One. Two if you count sandstone. |
| 05:49 | < Reivles> | To be fair, he's gone for actual geology there |
| 05:49 | < Derakon> | To be fair, all the detail adds a lot of verisimilitude. |
| 05:49 | < Derakon> | The game would be rather less interesting if you couldn't see that your dwarves just gouged out the dragon's eye with its own left foreclaw. |
| 05:49 | < Reivles> | I'm willing to forgive that logic. |
| 05:50 | < Derakon> | In other words, it's the old "simulation vs. game" decision. |
| 05:50 | < Reivles> | Right. |
| 05:50 | < Reivles> | I can respect DF for being an incredible simulation. |
| 05:50 | < Reivles> | Hell, all it really needs is a competent interface and the simulation makes a pretty interesting game too. |
| 06:00 | < Derakon> | Well, I guess Minecraft is more of a toy than a game. |
| 06:06 | | * Vornicus has tried to figure out a few times why DF needs /three/ arrow key sets. |
| 06:12 | | Kindamoody[zZz] is now known as Kindamoody |
| 06:13 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
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| 08:45 | | * Vornicus gnargs |
| 08:46 | | Kindamoody is now known as Kindamoody|out |
| 09:17 | < jerith_> | Vornicus: So that you don't have to change modes all the time. |
| 09:17 | | jerith_ is now known as jerith |
| 09:20 | <@Vornicus> | I can understand two. |
| 09:20 | <@Vornicus> | you could even use just one and modifier keys. |
| 09:22 | <@McMartin> | Three sets... |
| 09:22 | <@McMartin> | WASD, arrow, numpad. |
| 09:24 | <@Vornicus> | McM: not what I mean. WHat I mean is that different actions require the use of different arrow key sets. |
| 09:24 | <@Vornicus> | (also it's not wasd but something in the hjkl realm) |
| 09:32 | <@McMartin> | Blarghlcopter. |
| 09:32 | <@Vornicus> | oh? |
| 09:35 | <@McMartin> | My reaction to this. |
| 09:35 | <@McMartin> | The only time that's OK is twin-stick shooters~ |
| 09:37 | <@Vornicus> | but yeah, with DF, there are three different arrow key groups, and many actions use two; for instance if you want to designate a chunk of land, you use one keyset to move the designator and the other to change the size. |
| 09:37 | <@Vornicus> | I don't remember any actions that use all three. |
| 09:37 | < TheWatcher> | .... |
| 09:38 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, OK, you know my usual hatred of modal input? |
| 09:38 | <@McMartin> | Click + Drag or keyboard equivalents are one of my few exceptions thereto. |
| 09:39 | <@McMartin> | (Though even there the nonmodal "shift-move" is still better, "select to mark" is still acceptable.) |
| 09:39 | <@Vornicus> | I think the third one might be used for camera movement or something. |
| 09:42 | <@Vornicus> | But I mean I can do rectangle designation with a fucking Atari gamepad. Need a second button to allow cancel but seriously. |
| 09:48 | | Thalass [thalass@Nightstar-78fe43e6.bigpond.net.au] has joined #code |
| 09:48 | < Thalass> | yo |
| 09:48 | < Thalass> | I did this tutorial: http://eric-ide.python-projects.org/tutorials/MiniBrowser/index.html |
| 09:58 | < Thalass> | For some reason in step two when i built the UI in QT Designer, then compiled it in eric4, it did not include QUrl in mainwindow.py. |
| 09:58 | < Thalass> | Luckily the tutorial uncluded a pre-written version of what i was trying to do, so i could compare. |
| 10:11 | <@McMartin> | Ah. Odd. |
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| 11:42 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-7f2cada0.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 12:11 | | * simon_ smoked weed and listened to a guy praise Qt for half an hour. now I'm just sceptical. |
| 12:32 | | Reivles is now known as Reiver |
| 12:41 | <@McMartin> | Hey, I'll freely admit Qt4 is the best cross-platform widget library I've ever used. |
| 12:41 | | * Vornicus fiddles with tiles to connection graph stuff. |
| 13:02 | < Thalass> | heh |
| 13:02 | <@Vornicus> | gnah, hatred. |
| 13:15 | <@simon_> | apparently Qt even runs on Android. |
| 13:25 | < Thalass> | If i can create a UI with QT, anyone can. |
| 13:36 | <@McMartin> | (It's "Qt", not "QT", idly; pronounced "cute"~) |
| 13:36 | | * froztbyte says Queue-tea |
| 13:36 | | * froztbyte also says eye-arr-ess-ess-eye |
| 13:41 | < Thalass> | heh |
| 13:42 | < Thalass> | Oh i had forgotten obout quicktime. haha |
| 13:42 | < Thalass> | *about |
| 14:15 | | * Vornicus tries to calculate the voronoi diagrams of connected tiles for the depixelization algorithm. This is a little harder than it looks. |
| 14:47 | < AnnoDomini> | Eer-s-see! |
| 14:54 | <@Vornicus> | wait wait... is it ever possible to have to actually calculate using stuff outside a four-tile corner... |
| 14:55 | <@Vornicus> | and that line sounds so timecubish... |
| 14:58 | < Namegduf> | All reality calculated using four tile corner four side truth denied by monkey educators |
| 14:58 | < gnolam> | You are too educated stupid to calculate that. |
| 14:59 | < AnnoDomini> | If KarmaBot were here, I'd !timecube. |
| 15:10 | <@Vornicus> | ...okay, good. It never happens. |
| 16:15 | < gnolam> | Note to all web designers: if you have some kind of contact form with an obligatory category dropdown, always include an "other" category. |
| 16:20 | <@simon_> | those forms are stupid. |
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| 17:52 | < gnolam> | http://www.xkcd.com/932/ |
| 17:52 | < gnolam> | So true. |
| 17:56 | < AnnoDomini> | Yep. |
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| 19:38 | < AnnoDomini> | http://roflcopter.pl/5127 |
| 19:45 | | Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: Alek, @Vornicus, Tarinaky, PinkFreud, Rhamphoryncus, @McMartin, Kindamoody|out, Thaqui, jerith, Reiver |
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| 19:50 | | ServerMode/#code [+oo McMartin Vornicus] by *.Nightstar.Net |
| 19:51 | < gnolam> | AnnoDomini: Heh |
| 19:52 | < gnolam> | (But what are they running that site on? TCP/IP over Avian Carrier?) |
| 19:53 | < AnnoDomini> | I do not know. |
| 19:54 | < gnolam> | My defunct dumbphone had a faster connection than that. :P |
| 20:02 | < gnolam> | Wait, it's Poland. It's probably TCP/IP over coal plant smoke signal. ;) |
| 20:03 | < AnnoDomini> | Luil. |
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| 22:06 | < TheWatcher> | Why do I hate writing database migration code so very much ;.; |
| 22:07 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 22:12 | < jerith> | TheWatcher: Because it's db migration code. |
| 22:12 | < TheWatcher> | Oh, yes, right. |
| 22:12 | < jerith> | (If you'd just done it right the first time, you wouldn't have to migrate...) |
| 22:13 | | * jerith hides behind AnnoDomini. |
| 22:13 | < TheWatcher> | (If I wasn't pulling data out of someone else's gallery implementation into mine, you mean :P) |
| 22:22 | | * AnnoDomini serves as good cover, due being huge. |
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| --- Log closed Tue Aug 02 00:00:07 2011 |