| --- Log opened Thu Jul 21 00:00:46 2011 |
| 00:02 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 00:09 | < TheWatcher> | Walking of UIs and lightwave, WTB 'Reset perspective view' option for modeller. They have it in layout, ffs, so why not modeller?! |
| 00:09 | < TheWatcher> | *talking |
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| 00:29 | | * kwsn waves |
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| 01:18 | < McMartin> | Blargh |
| 01:18 | | * McMartin breaks out the Refactor Tractor. |
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| 01:40 | | * Vornicus should get around to learning haskell. |
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| 01:50 | < McMartin> | Man, I've forgotten a lot of my Haskell, especially the program-organization parts. |
| 02:02 | < McMartin> | Ugh, but the GM8 sim is going to be a mess. I'd better not take it on first. |
| 02:02 | < McMartin> | Since I've never actually tried to interweave two sets of state monads before, and I'd need to do that for this. |
| 02:03 | < McMartin> | (At minimum, I need I/O and a source of randomness for the object AIs.) |
| 02:06 | | Stalker [Z@Nightstar-3602cf5a.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #code |
| 02:09 | | * McMartin eyebrows. "Haskell's FFI is a lot cleaner than I remember it being." |
| 02:14 | < McMartin> | Also, ha ha, I found my (redundant, IIRC) UTF-8 module I wrote back in the day |
| 02:14 | < McMartin> | This is one enormous pile of whitespace abuse |
| 02:15 | < McMartin> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/477 |
| 02:20 | < Vornicus> | That's pretty abusey. |
| 02:22 | < McMartin> | Everything important lines up with its parallels on the other match clauses, though! |
| 02:22 | < McMartin> | I also do a terrifying number of zero-point definitions. |
| 02:23 | < McMartin> | Seriously, check out the definitions of "inRange" and "innerChar" there. |
| 02:24 | < Vornicus> | lines 30 and 31? |
| 02:24 | < McMartin> | Yeah |
| 02:25 | < Vornicus> | I don't get what you mean. |
| 02:26 | < McMartin> | 31 can be improved, actually: foldr (&&) True has the much more convenient alias "all" in the prelude. |
| 02:26 | < McMartin> | inRange is a function of three arguments, presented as an incompletely specified function of two arguments. |
| 02:26 | < McMartin> | inRange returns the composition of ord with a lambda that does a "between these two values" evaluation. |
| 02:27 | < McMartin> | The actual argument - you know, the character you're checking the range of - appears nowhere in the definition. |
| 02:27 | < McMartin> | (This is called 'zero-point' because the 'point' - the thing you're really operating on - never appears) |
| 02:28 | < McMartin> | (Unfortunately, the point - that is, the . operator, which is function composition - is all over the place *in* said definitions.) |
| 02:28 | < McMartin> | But yeah, to do it properly |
| 02:29 | < McMartin> | Line 31 should be the much more readable |
| 02:29 | < McMartin> | innerChar = all (inRange 0x80 0xC0) |
| 02:30 | < McMartin> | (It's a test that its argument - a list of characters - are all characters from the middle or end of a multibyte UTF-8 character) |
| 02:30 | < Vornicus> | why don't you use inRange in utf8_chr |
| 02:31 | < McMartin> | inRange is Int -> Int -> [Char] -> Bool |
| 02:31 | < McMartin> | utf8_chr is Int -> [Char] |
| 02:32 | < McMartin> | Er |
| 02:32 | < McMartin> | inRange is Int -> Int -> Char -> Bool |
| 02:32 | < McMartin> | That is, it tells you if a character is between two code points |
| 02:32 | < McMartin> | utf8_chr takes a code point, but not a character. |
| 02:33 | < McMartin> | (This whole module is kind of misguided, as there is a TextEncoding module already in the stdlib, which is how you are supposed to do these conversions.) |
| 02:33 | < Vornicus> | So in python, inrange would be def inRange(min, max, c): return min <= ord(c) < max ? |
| 02:34 | < McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 02:34 | < McMartin> | That ord(c) there is the " . ord" at the end |
| 02:34 | < McMartin> | It's composing the double range compare with the ord function so that I don't have to type it as much. =P |
| 02:35 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-202a5047.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 02:36 | < McMartin> | Though looking at it more deeply, it looks like the TextEncoding stuff is actually a GHC-specific thing, and so it isn't the stdlib after all. |
| 02:43 | < McMartin> | That said, I'm also Totally Doing It Wrong in the functions. |
| 02:44 | < McMartin> | toUtf8 shouldn't end with a string, it should end with [Int8] |
| 02:50 | < McMartin> | Hm, or not, because the IO functions seem to all be on Chars. |
| 02:52 | < McMartin> | Aha, now I remember. OK then! |
| 02:52 | < McMartin> | System.IO is standard, I guess? |
| 02:59 | < Vornicus> | I freaking hope so. |
| 03:01 | < McMartin> | Well |
| 03:01 | < McMartin> | IO is standard. |
| 03:01 | < McMartin> | GHC.IO.Encoding.UTF8 is pretty obviously nonstandard |
| 03:01 | < McMartin> | System.IO might be standard? |
| 03:01 | < McMartin> | GHC supports it, at any rate~ |
| 03:21 | < kwsn> | friend wants to know |
| 03:22 | < kwsn> | best laptop company and no not apple |
| 03:22 | < kwsn> | (she specifically said that) |
| 03:31 | < Vornicus> | Not Dell |
| 03:31 | < Vornicus> | Lenovo took over IBM's thinkpad line, that might be good. |
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| 03:49 | < McMartin> | I preferred the old IBM ones, but Thinkpads are still Seriously Good. |
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| 04:22 | | * McMartin gets a basic SDL program working in Haskell. |
| 04:22 | < McMartin> | That one was Monads All The Way Down, though, so I can do better than that, I think. |
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| 06:11 | < Phox> | So, is there a better alternative to scanf for bringing in numbers? It keeps leaving carriage returns floating around, messing up my inputs, and I don't really like prefacing every getchar with a while loop to clean the buffer. |
| 06:14 | < Derakon> | Write a utility function that wraps scanf~? |
| 06:15 | < Phox> | Ehhhhhh... too much work for a throwaway class. |
| 06:16 | < Phox> | I got dumped back into introductory programming for people who don't know how to find the on button, courtesy of a university transfer |
| 06:22 | < McMartin> | Phox: In a real program? "don't use C for your input library". |
| 06:22 | < McMartin> | C++ includes boost::lexical_cast<>, and a *serious* C program that's reading structured numerical input will probably have a flex-based parser in it. |
| 06:22 | < McMartin> | That will then let you turn numeric tokens into integers or floats via atoi or atof. |
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| 06:24 | < Phox> | Flex-based? I'm using a finite state machine, which seems to work pretty alright. What's a flex-based parser? |
| 06:25 | < McMartin> | Flex is a program for automatically generating finite state machines for exactly this purpose~ |
| 06:25 | < McMartin> | And really, it's a lexer, not a parser, but. |
| 06:25 | < McMartin> | (fair warning: I was a compiler geek. "Build a parser for it" is my answer to entirely too many things.) |
| 06:25 | < Phox> | Ah. I should look into that, then, because writing these parsers are so boring |
| 06:26 | < Phox> | *is |
| 06:26 | < McMartin> | For full-scale parsers in C, flex makes the lexer, and bison makes the parser. |
| 06:29 | < McMartin> | Also, regarding cleaning the buffer, it's been awhile, but can't you call fflush() on stdin? |
| 06:30 | < Phox> | Yeah, most likely. I think it has more overhead, though. |
| 06:30 | < McMartin> | By definition you are I/O bound here, you do not give a shit about overhead unless it's going to increase response time to a user gesture to 700ms or more |
| 06:31 | < Phox> | I suppose so, yeah. I hadn't thought of it that way. |
| 06:31 | < Phox> | Ah. But, this isn't in the middle of a string. The usage here is for the user to input a single character. |
| 06:31 | < McMartin> | Oh. |
| 06:31 | < McMartin> | Yeah, flex is not for that. |
| 06:32 | < Phox> | Yeah. I was asking about it in regards to a different part of the program |
| 06:37 | < Phox> | Hmm, that's weird. |
| 06:38 | < Phox> | I need to sit and actually look at what's going on in the OI buffer, some day. |
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| 06:39 | < Phox> | Using a while loop to clear the buffer makes getchar require two carriage retures, if you clear it first |
| 06:39 | < Phox> | That's not what I had expected |
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| 07:02 | < McMartin> | Phox: Traditionally when doing character-based interfaces, you don't use the stdlib to do it. |
| 07:02 | < McMartin> | On UNIX you'd either go into raw mode or wrap it in a library like curses - in Windows you'd use the relevant Console calls. |
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| --- Log closed Thu Jul 21 07:43:03 2011 |
| --- Log opened Thu Jul 21 07:43:17 2011 |
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| 12:06 | < TheWatcher> | Sanity check, please. This should count how many inodes a given directory and all its files occupy: `find $dir -printf "%i\n" | sort -u | wc -l` |
| 12:12 | | * TheWatcher also stabs rsync for being inconsistent |
| 12:13 | < TheWatcher> | I'm not sure there's any way for me to work out exactly how many inodes are going to be used by rsynced filesystem objects based on --stats --dry-run - "number of files transferred" seems to be just that, not including directories, symlinks, etc |
| 12:16 | < TheWatcher> | I guess I'm just going to have to enforce "Always have at least this many inodes free" during the code that deletes old backups |
| 12:47 | < gnolam> | It works! |
| 12:47 | < gnolam> | I can't believe it! |
| 12:47 | < gnolam> | And they said imitation diamond wasn't good enough... |
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| 18:47 | < gnolam> | Re: the new OS X: |
| 18:47 | < gnolam> | "It's gray. Everything is gray. Gray, gray, gray, gray. Ugly gray scrollbars, ugly gray toolbars, it's like the entire OS was designed by a Communist-era Soviet committee four years behind on the next five-year plan." |
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| 20:23 | < McMartin> | gnolam: I've heard it was more "it's an iPad! Just without the touchscreen or easy ways to do things that you wanted a computer for instead of an iPad. Why do you hate innovation so much?" |
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| 21:22 | < celticminstrel> | Isn't OSX already grey? |
| 21:24 | < jerith> | celticminstrel: It's only mostly grey, not entirely grey. |
| 21:24 | < jerith> | For example, scrollbars are blue when your window has focus. |
| 21:25 | < celticminstrel> | Ah, they changed that? |
| 21:27 | < jerith> | Dunno. I tend not to use any major OS revision until it's had at least a month in the wild for other people to find the teething woes. |
| 21:28 | < McMartin> | My understanding was that 10.7 didn't have scrollbars. |
| 21:28 | < McMartin> | Did they fix that since the dev preview? |
| 21:29 | < jerith> | McMartin: From what I've seen on twitter, they made scrolling work backwards. |
| 21:29 | < McMartin> | Well, see my quote above. |
| 21:29 | < McMartin> | Look carefully at what you do when you throw a window with a touchscreen. |
| 21:29 | < jerith> | Which *really* sucks if you have to use any othe OS as well. |
| 21:30 | < McMartin> | Yes, mice and touchscreens are *different* |
| 21:30 | < celticminstrel> | Well, I know I'm not going to update for quite awhile. |
| 21:30 | < McMartin> | (It is counterintuitive but actually true that direct vs. indirect pointer input have opposite gestures for scrolling.) |
| 21:31 | < McMartin> | When I said "didn't have scrollbars" I mean 'there is no visible way to tell that there is more content in this pane than what is currently visible.' |
| 21:47 | < jerith> | That is unusably bad. |
| 21:47 | < jerith> | And is enough to get me over my laziness and back onto Linux. |
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| 23:10 | < McMartin> | Throwing windows with mice totally sucks =( |
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| 23:16 | | * McMartin reads the Ars article about 10.7 |
| 23:16 | < McMartin> | I do like the new look, though. Buttons are larger and squarer. =P |
| 23:18 | < McMartin> | Aha, the "scrolling is fucking backwards" thing is configurable via a setting. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Jul 22 00:00:14 2011 |