| --- Log opened Fri Feb 04 00:00:20 2011 |
| 00:02 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:13 | | Kimo|translation is now known as Kindamoody |
| 00:44 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 00:45 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, as far as I can tell nothing does 2 except kmail and thunderbird. |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | And thunderbird's implementation sucks. |
| 00:54 | < celticminstrel> | 2? |
| 00:55 | < Vornicus> | [18:01:45] <@ToxicFrog> Someone recommend me a linux email client with threading, group-by-date, and contacts management. |
| 00:56 | < celticminstrel> | So, "nothing does 2" has an implied "from that list" after it. |
| 00:59 | < Vornicus> | yes |
| 01:02 | < Alek> | Ivor Horton's Basics of Visual C++ 2005, page 80. "The quantity of players on a soccer team is a whole number, at least at the beginning of the game." |
| 01:03 | | * McMartin golfclaps. |
| 01:04 | < Namegduf> | Surely in C++ it's more idiomatic to have an templated Count class which you instantiate with your abstract Player class, and automatically increment in the Player class's constructor. |
| 01:05 | < Namegduf> | And leave internal storage to the implementation, letting it be updated to handle fractional players or other operations without code changes elsewhere. |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | That would require object morphing on injury, which is not idiomatic C++ |
| 01:05 | <@McMartin> | Objective-C is thataway -> |
| 01:09 | < celticminstrel> | Or Objective-C++ <_< |
| 01:13 | <@McMartin> | Just lets the two coexist >_> |
| 01:15 | < Vornicus> | nuuuuu, not objective-c |
| 01:15 | < celticminstrel> | True, true. |
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| 06:19 | < Reiv> | Is there any way to check key bindings on audiosurf? The letter 'z' is now pausing the game instead of scoop >.< |
| 07:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 13:30 | | * TheWatcher once again flails at perl's lack of 'returnif' statement |
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| 13:50 | < gnolam> | Ooh, job offer! |
| 13:51 | < gnolam> | ... writing a GUI. Yech. |
| 13:51 | < gnolam> | But still. |
| 13:53 | <@TheWatcher> | Yay, I guess. As long as it's not in Java, in which case you poor bugger~ |
| 13:57 | | You're now known as Thecorriander |
| 13:57 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 13:57 | < gnolam> | Python. |
| 13:58 | < gnolam> | What is the preferred method of GUI creation in Python these days? |
| 13:58 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 14:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Depends. |
| 14:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | tk is a Python standard library; it's very basic but suffices for small stuff. |
| 14:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | For larger things, it has Qt and GTK+ bindings. |
| 14:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Don't know apart from that. |
| 14:49 | < gnolam> | I won't need all the bells and whistles AFAIK - the whole thing is supposed to be a frontend to two Monte Carlo simulators. So... basically, it's going to be various forms of parameter input and then a display of the results (simple plot, it seems). |
| 14:58 | < gnolam> | And yes, it's more radiation. :-) |
| 15:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it's going to be a small and simple UI, probably not worth bringing out the big guns, then |
| 15:31 | < gnolam> | Looking at screenshots of various tkinter projects, it looks like it'll probably do. Thanks, all. |
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| 22:58 | | * Derakon ponders trying to brute-force solve the Agricola singleplayer game. |
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| 22:58 | <@Derakon> | This is almost certainly infeasible, but maybe with adequate pruning it'd be a possibility. |
| 22:59 | < McMartin> | Everything is brute-force solvable for sufficiently clever values of brute force! |
| 22:59 | <@Derakon> | You start with 10 possible action spaces and 2 actions per turn (which must be different actions). After the 4th, 7th, 9th, 11th, and 13th rounds, N more available actions are added (there are 14 rounds total). |
| 23:00 | <@Derakon> | Also at those rounds, you must have obtained a sufficient quantity of food or food-equivalents. |
| 23:00 | <@Derakon> | After the 7th round, an action is available to add more actions per following round, at the cost of more food and with a pre-requisite that you must have spent other resources on expanding your house. |
| 23:01 | <@Derakon> | You can also safely assume that certain actions are not taken twice in a row (or, likely, even with a one-turn gap in-between). |
| 23:02 | <@Derakon> | Without any pruning, after 7 rounds there are 797,065,132,032 possible combinations of actions. |
| 23:02 | < McMartin> | Alpha-beta pruning means you can not search paths that are known to have better alternatives already, so yeah |
| 23:03 | <@Derakon> | McM: well, taking the action twice in a row does have a result which is not guaranteed to be worse than waiting and then taking it a second time, but heuristically it's never a good idea. |
| 23:03 | | * Vornicus figured out a way to count pairing setups for the results n m-sided dice... as closed form. far better than brute forcing -- and counting -- 10 gigastates |
| 23:04 | <@Derakon> | It seems likely that even intelligent pruning would not bring this down to a workable problem size. |
| 23:06 | <@Vornicus> | to be frank, <1T action combos isn't /all/ that much |
| 23:06 | <@Derakon> | But that's only half the game... |
| 23:07 | <@Vornicus> | And at the end of it, many -- if not most -- of those states will be completely dominated. |
| 23:07 | <@Derakon> | Ignoring the extra actions and just going with 16 available actions per turn after that, there's 14,000,902,458,557,620,331,741,184 possible combinations... |
| 23:07 | <@Derakon> | The main difficulty as I see it is being unable to prune a large number of sets until reaching the harvest (when the food requirement comes due). |
| 23:10 | <@Derakon> | (For what it's worth, this is using a modified maximally-pessimal rule set that guarantees that no matter what cards you have and what actions become available when, you can still finish the game. So far they've managed to make it to 63 points; the next target is 65) |
| 23:11 | | * Vornicus suspect that that's --oh, hell, seriously, randomized data underneath? |
| 23:11 | <@Derakon> | The ruleset being used for this challenge is deterministic. |
| 23:12 | <@Vornicus> | ah |
| 23:12 | <@Derakon> | Ordinarily, the first four rounds have a sub-deck of 4 action cards that come out in any order. In this ruleset, they all come out on the 4th round. |
| 23:12 | <@Derakon> | (Thus, ordinarily your score hinges to a large extent on how lucky you are with the order of action cards) |
| 23:42 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| --- Log closed Sat Feb 05 00:00:05 2011 |