| --- Log opened Sat Nov 06 00:00:31 2010 |
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| 07:05 | < Janus> | Howdy y'all! Long time no see! |
| 07:07 | | * Janus 's programming skillset has only gone sharply downhill since so long ago! |
| 07:08 | <@jerith> | o/ |
| 07:09 | < Janus> | For instance, in a collision thing for 2D rectangles, I have 5 ?: statements nested inside one another |
| 07:11 | <@Derakon> | Two 2D axis-aligned rectangles overlap if each pair of edges (projected onto the relevant axis) overlap. If there is at least one projected edge with no overlap then they do not intersect. |
| 07:11 | <@Derakon> | You should be able to do that with four conditional checks, IIRC. |
| 07:11 | <@Derakon> | Anyway, I'm for bed. Luck. |
| 07:11 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:12 | < Janus> | True! But I probably did it amazingly wrong, haha. I can show if you want, but ... it works somehow. And I have no clue what any of it does. It's become a huge blackbox to me, haha. |
| 07:14 | < Janus> | But, um! I'll just rewrite it later if needed. Right now? I'm just trying to cope with the sheer number of header/code files, and classes. Too much code |
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| 07:16 | < Janus> | But actually, I wanted to ask you guys a question! |
| 07:16 | <@jerith> | Any code you wrote more than a month ago may as well have been written by someone else. ;-) |
| 07:17 | < Janus> | That someone else had it out for me |
| 07:18 | <@jerith> | Yeah. jerith-from-the-past is a right lazy bastard. |
| 07:18 | <@jerith> | But jerith-from-the-future is smart. He'll know what to do. I don't *really* need to comment this stuff... |
| 07:23 | < Janus> | Janus-from-the-future, I can't stand him frankly. I'll leave him a little surprise... |
| 07:24 | <@jerith> | Sometimes I discover that jerith-from-the-past was smarter than he looked, and then I document why the obvious refactoring won't work. |
| 07:29 | < Janus> | Being in the present is easy when the past and future guys do all the work. This is the life |
| 07:30 | <@jerith> | It's boring, though. |
| 07:30 | <@jerith> | And sometimes the deadline's too tight to let Future You do it. |
| 07:31 | < Janus> | Just wait until the deadline and hope past you did it. If he didn't, that's his fault |
| 07:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oookay. Ripped a DVD using gddrescue, no errors reported, but now vlc skipped a spot on the ISO o.O |
| 07:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yet I ripped the last disk too, and not only did it not skip, playing the disk directly wouldn't skip either |
| 07:38 | < Janus> | maybe it's a feature. Skips over the boring parts for you |
| 07:39 | | * Janus suddenly remembers he had a question! ... oops, wait |
| 07:39 | < Janus> | Is it okay if I ask to ask a question? |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh no, I can assure you it skips quite interesting parts :P |
| 07:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | of course |
| 07:40 | <@jerith> | More efficient to just ask rather than asking to ask to ask. ;-) |
| 07:40 | <@jerith> | (There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people.) |
| 07:41 | < Janus> | Thank you! Can I as-- okay, if you say so! Hm! A freeware game that has more story added to it, every week or so like a webcomic. Would it be hard to do, if the executable itself needed to be changed every time? |
| 07:42 | <@jerith> | Probably. Rather structure it in such a way that you add data rather than code. |
| 07:42 | <@jerith> | Or add code in a modular way. |
| 07:42 | < Janus> | I've committed myself to a rather unwise practice. Every discrete level is a new inherited class |
| 07:42 | <@jerith> | Is this a compiled language? |
| 07:43 | < Janus> | C++ |
| 07:43 | <@jerith> | That makes it tricky. |
| 07:43 | <@jerith> | Can you compile each level on its own and load it with dlopen() or whatever? |
| 07:44 | < Janus> | ... you can compile them on their own? |
| 07:44 | <@jerith> | Depends. |
| 07:44 | <@jerith> | You'd need the headers, of course. |
| 07:45 | <@jerith> | Look up how to compile dynamically-loaded libraries. |
| 07:45 | <@jerith> | I do it so seldom myself that I don't actually remember how. |
| 07:45 | < Janus> | Huh! If I could do that, I'd only have to send out DLLs every update |
| 07:45 | <@jerith> | Also, I do it in C rather than C++. It might be different there. |
| 07:46 | <@jerith> | What compiler are you using? |
| 07:47 | <@jerith> | What kinds of things to these level classes have in them? |
| 07:47 | < Janus> | the microsoft one. Only for convienence right now. Going to research gcc's to see if it's better. ... may use it on principle that I'm not paying for the microsoft one too :P;; |
| 07:47 | <@jerith> | *do |
| 07:48 | < Janus> | Oh! They're inherited by a base Level class. Has 3 virtual functions they fulfill, which is start(), update(), and end(). Let's me completely change the gameplay if I wanted |
| 07:49 | <@jerith> | So probably hard to turn into data rather than code. |
| 07:49 | <@jerith> | Do you have the whole thing planned? |
| 07:51 | < Janus> | The game, yeah! Code... I'm honing in on something I guess, aha. Right now, the levels are set up that way, and assets like characters and objects are the same way mostly. They have an Update() and a End(). So adding more and more classes for different things is easy |
| 07:52 | < Janus> | Everything from GUI elements to enemies inherit from an Asset class, and then they're stuffed in an Asset array that belongs to the level |
| 07:53 | <@jerith> | Might not be worth it for this game, but it would be an interesting exercise to see if you can define everything you need in terms of instances of more generic classes rather than more specialised classes. |
| 07:54 | < Janus> | No, that's the smart way, I'm finding out, haha |
| 07:54 | <@jerith> | That way you could say "Give me a UsableThing that has these properites" rather than "Give me an EnchantedSword". |
| 07:54 | <@jerith> | Then you can define your levels as data rather than code. |
| 07:54 | <@jerith> | That makes it much harder to add new behaviours later, though. |
| 07:55 | <@jerith> | 20 minutes of battery left. :-/ |
| 07:55 | <@jerith> | I was hoping my power would be back by now. |
| 07:55 | < Janus> | Eep, power outage? |
| 07:56 | <@jerith> | Yeah. |
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| 08:31 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Janus: Some games these days do issue regular updates, but that's usually bug fixes, only occasionally new content |
| 08:32 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But I'd feel much safer using lua or python for that. |
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| 08:39 | < Janus> | Hm! |
| 08:39 | < Janus> | Thanks for the input! ... and now I collapse |
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| 18:25 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Is it possible to divine what the console output was of an application that didn't have a console window open? |
| 18:25 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Like a log of things that get sent to console. |
| 18:26 | <@Derakon> | I'm guessing this is Windows. |
| 18:26 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Debian. |
| 18:26 | <@Derakon> | Ah. |
| 18:26 | <@Derakon> | What happens if you run it from a console? |
| 18:26 | < Anno[Laptop]> | It runs normally, but I have an extra window to keep track of. |
| 18:27 | < Anno[Laptop]> | DF suddenly crashed and exited, and I want to know what it send to console before it did. |
| 18:27 | < Anno[Laptop]> | *sent |
| 18:27 | <@Derakon> | IIRC doesn't DF generate its own logfiles to capture its output? |
| 18:28 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Good idea! I'll check. |
| 18:28 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Hmm. 85Mb of text. |
| 18:30 | < Anno[Laptop]> | This seems to be the announcements. The error log is also in-game, mostly. |
| 18:34 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Just passed a million lines. Still loading. |
| 18:34 | <@Derakon> | This is what "tail" is for. |
| 18:35 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Tail? |
| 18:36 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Oh, I see. |
| 18:36 | | jeroid [jerith@687AAB.5E3E50.724FA3.9A8B4E] has joined #code |
| 18:36 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Anyway. No ideas on how to get console output, then? I know console INPUT is being logged. |
| 18:36 | <@Derakon> | Sorry. |
| 18:36 | < jeroid> | Context? |
| 18:37 | < Anno[Laptop]> | jeroid: I ran DF without a console window. It crashed. I want to know its console output before it did. |
| 18:38 | < jeroid> | Ah. OS? |
| 18:39 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Debian. |
| 18:39 | < jeroid> | I know MacOS has a console log you can look at. |
| 18:40 | < jeroid> | I think Linux tosses it into /dev/null. |
| 18:40 | < jeroid> | You can run it from a terminal to get the output, though. |
| 18:40 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Yeah, I know that. |
| 18:41 | < jeroid> | Or write a little wrapper script to pipe it to a file. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | For DF specifically, errorlog.txt and gamelog.txt contain the "game" logs; "program" logs (like "loading bindings from X", "resetting textures", "macro format error") are written to stderr/stdout and are lost forever if not captured. |
| 19:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | For the general case of "can I get console output from a now-exited program if I ran it without a controlling terminal", at least on linux the answer is "no". |
| 19:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | If this is a recurring issue, consider modifying your df script so that it does >stdout.log 2>stderr.log. |
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| --- Log closed Sun Nov 07 00:00:33 2010 |