| --- Log opened Tue Sep 28 00:00:17 2010 |
| --- Day changed Tue Sep 28 2010 |
| 00:00 | <@jerith> | I'm sure you can get one. There isn't one built in, as far as I'm aware. |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, I was wondering if there's one built in. |
| 00:00 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ditto for sshfs? |
| 00:01 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-a0abd809.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #code |
| 00:01 | <@jerith> | Yeah. Although it has NFS by default. |
| 00:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, that won't cut it with SHARCNet |
| 00:04 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-a0abd809.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
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| 00:05 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-a0abd809.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #code |
| 00:13 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-f5d6e71d.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
| 00:37 | | TarinakyMob [Tarinaky@37647E.0002A6.410380.573FBB] has joined #code |
| 00:37 | < TarinakyMob> | My router's PPP test is failing - any idea what that means? |
| 00:38 | < TarinakyMob> | I'd google but the internet is down. |
| 00:38 | < Vornicus> | DSL? |
| 00:38 | < TarinakyMob> | ADSL |
| 00:39 | < Vornicus> | Same thing. So, DSL uses something called PPPoE to communicate with the upstream routers. If it's not succeeding at that, there's something wrong somewhere between those two endpoints. Might be anything from a backhoe issue to your modem screwing up to their routers screwing up. |
| 00:40 | < celticminstrel> | I wish the Finder's ftp client could write as well as read. <_< |
| 00:40 | < TarinakyMob> | The line test passes. |
| 00:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: who still uses FTP? o.O |
| 00:44 | | * TarinakyMob tries to remember how to do wireless in Linux. |
| 00:45 | < celticminstrel> | Some people. I dunno. |
| 00:46 | < TarinakyMob> | I don't think I'm getting any signals apart from my own router. Lame. |
| 00:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | TarinakyMob: "do wireless" in what sense? |
| 00:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | Generally, it just works and is accessible from the little network icon in the systray. |
| 00:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | If you want, say, all the gory details of every network in range, try "iwlist scan". |
| 00:47 | < TarinakyMob> | Find unsecured network, steal bandwidth so I can finish my forum post and not have to chat on a mobile phone. |
| 00:48 | < TarinakyMob> | Iwlist scan needed me to remember how to bring the interface up though. |
| 00:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | ifconfig <interface> up |
| 00:48 | < TarinakyMob> | Thought so. |
| 00:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | make sure the wireless switch on your machine is enabled if it has one, too. |
| 00:49 | < TarinakyMob> | Wirel ess switch? |
| 00:50 | < TarinakyMob> | Is that a laptop thing? |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Most laptops have a hardware or firmware switch that lets you disable the wireless card independently of the OS. |
| 00:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it's a desktop wireless card this is a nonissue. |
| 00:51 | < TarinakyMob> | I'll be pissed off if this is down all night. |
| 00:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Call your isp and tell them about it? Who're you on? |
| 00:53 | < TarinakyMob> | Plus net. I don't know what the number is or their hours. |
| 00:53 | < TarinakyMob> | I'd google but... |
| 00:55 | < Vornicus> | 0845 140 0080 for their "broadband and telephone faults", if I'm getting the right place from Google. |
| 00:56 | < Vornicus> | Which is apparently manned 24/7. |
| 00:57 | < Vornicus> | Looks it, from your whowas results. |
| 00:58 | < TarinakyMob> | Cool. A telephone fault line sounds silly. |
| 00:59 | | RichardB_ [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 00:59 | < TarinakyMob> | I'm on hold :/ |
| 00:59 | < TarinakyMob> | Yay power ballards. |
| 01:00 | < Vornicus> | Not spectacularly surprising, but it's better by some measure than "I have no idea who to call" |
| 01:00 | | RichardBarrell [mycatverbs@Nightstar-3b2c2db2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:00 | < Orthia> | Think yourself lucky |
| 01:00 | < TarinakyMob> | True. |
| 01:00 | < Orthia> | Half the ones here loop their ads |
| 01:01 | < TarinakyMob> | Haha |
| 01:01 | < Orthia> | This is bad enough. |
| 01:01 | < Orthia> | When their total advertisement speils last approximately ninety seconds, and they have them on infinite loop? |
| 01:02 | < Orthia> | atrocious |
| 01:02 | < TarinakyMob> | Owww. |
| 01:04 | | kwsn is now known as kwsn\packers |
| 01:04 | < Vornicus> | Orthia: I have you beat. When the ad spiels last /fifteen/ seconds. |
| 01:04 | < Orthia> | Vorn: Yowza. |
| 01:06 | | TarinakyMob [Tarinaky@37647E.0002A6.410380.573FBB] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 01:07 | < Vornicus> | On the other hand one time I got one that played the actual, non-muzak'd Girl From Ipanema. |
| 01:08 | | TarinakyMob [Tarinaky@37647E.0002A6.6691A5.72184E] has joined #code |
| 01:09 | < TarinakyMob> | I got through. They wated me to take the panel off the phone socket and all sort. |
| 01:09 | < TarinakyMob> | Will have to wait until morning or my dad will be po with me. |
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| 01:25 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 02:29 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: KABOOM! It seems that I have exploded. Please wait while I reinstall the universe.] |
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| 04:16 | | * Orthia realises he is creating the Mother Of Pathfinding Nightmares. |
| 04:17 | | * Vornicus gives Orthia A* and No-Doz. |
| 04:18 | < Orthia> | Worse |
| 04:18 | | * Vornicus then pokes vaguely at Kaura. |
| 04:18 | < Orthia> | In fact I am going to have to run it through my head three times to be able to explain it so I can go ask a lecturer if there is even a solution. |
| 04:18 | < Orthia> | Because what the hell. |
| 04:26 | < Vornicus> | Unless you're doing something absolutely batshit, there's probably things you can do. What are you up to? |
| 04:27 | < Orthia> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/381 |
| 04:27 | < Orthia> | Step 1: Trying to explain what is needed. >_< |
| 04:27 | | TarinakyWeb [50e51fec@Nightstar-992d69e3.mibbit.com] has joined #code |
| 04:27 | < TarinakyWeb> | Yay! Connection stuff sorted itself out while I was playing GSB. |
| 04:28 | < Orthia> | Vorn: Does that make even the slightest bit of sense? |
| 04:28 | < Orthia> | I realise there will be a lot of variables - variables I am fine with, they are something you tweak. |
| 04:30 | < Vornicus> | You're doing... profit maximization? |
| 04:31 | < Orthia> | I think so, via pathfinding yeah. |
| 04:33 | | Stalker [Z@3A600C.A966FF.5BF32D.8E7ABA] has joined #code |
| 04:33 | | kaura [kaura@Nightstar-fd82400d.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [[NS] Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Organize your IRC] |
| 04:37 | < Vornicus> | Do you have roads in this, or not? |
| 04:39 | < Vornicus> | ...which is to say -- is there a reason why I would not be able to build the complete graph and have it work. |
| 04:41 | < Vornicus> | Anyway, just having "supply" and "demand" doesn't work all that well: you need to model sources and sinks. |
| 04:48 | | kwsn\packers is now known as kwsn\burn_refs |
| 04:51 | < Vornicus> | You're going to end up explicitly modeling things until you have gotten enough going that simulating it with simpler algorithms actually works. |
| 04:57 | < Vornicus> | (because without that, you don't really get a sense of how it's supposed to actually feel.) |
| 05:12 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 05:18 | < Orthia> | hn |
| 05:19 | < Orthia> | [Sorry, had a brief BRB that turned int oa rather larger one] |
| 05:19 | < Orthia> | No roads, though there are probably distance limits - regardless of profit, paths will be limited in range. |
| 05:20 | < Orthia> | So... infinite blank concrete, but you need to stop at towns to grab gas~ |
| 05:27 | < Orthia> | Vornicus: Anyway, I presume by graph you mean 'every point connected to every other point' ? |
| 05:27 | < Vornicus> | By "complete graph", yes |
| 05:27 | | * Orthia thinks. |
| 05:28 | < Orthia> | Is it a major hurdle to be limited to a certain range? |
| 05:31 | < Vornicus> | It's a hurdle. But not as much of one as "heavily-trafficked routes get cheaper" |
| 05:34 | < Orthia> | Yeah, that's going to be the challenge |
| 05:34 | < Orthia> | Basically I want this thing to be a self-forming network. |
| 05:34 | < Orthia> | Much like roads do, in the grand timescale of things - a road gets built, then the current road gets extended from because it was already there |
| 05:35 | < Orthia> | Then eventually people decide a direct route is valuable and that crops up too, if it's ever needed. |
| 05:37 | < Vornicus> | Hm... |
| 05:44 | < Orthia> | Just /how much/ is weighted on this depends heavily on the variables, of course |
| 05:50 | < Vornicus> | Right. You're building a heavily chaotic system. |
| 05:50 | < Vornicus> | Without some sense of how that system "feels", you won't be able to get it right. |
| 05:50 | < Orthia> | Yeah, this is fair enough. |
| 05:50 | < Orthia> | So! |
| 05:51 | < Orthia> | What should I be doing to get this system of chaos workin'? |
| 05:52 | < Vornicus> | 1. sources and sinks. Consider how your various things are produced. Do they need other things to be produced? |
| 05:52 | < Orthia> | hmm. |
| 05:52 | < Orthia> | Are you suggesting my first step is to craft a node model? |
| 05:52 | < Vornicus> | Something like that. |
| 05:52 | < Orthia> | Then I guess I should start calling nodes planets. |
| 05:53 | < Orthia> | Or systems, but that's just a matter of scale. |
| 05:54 | < Vornicus> | Right. |
| 05:54 | < Orthia> | OK. |
| 05:54 | < Orthia> | Basic economic models 101 then! |
| 05:55 | < Orthia> | I guess we will call it all... hm. Resources, utilisations, and constructions. |
| 05:56 | < Orthia> | You can have a world full of tasty green plains. This means it has a high Food resource. Utilise it, and you get to *have* food. Food lets you build Population [minor caveat on that one but what the hell it's a start]. |
| 05:57 | < Orthia> | Minerals are mined into industry. Probably various kinds of mineral; there's a distinction between steelworks for shipbuilding and silicone/lithium for electronics and cellphones afterall, even if you don't want to go any deeper than that. |
| 06:07 | | * Orthia thinks. So, then: Resources[], ResourceMines[], Industries[]... hm, what am I missing |
| 06:10 | < Orthia> | Possibly some idea of Wealth. And I should be careful of the assumption that every industry will be linked to a specific resource - tourism, commerce and the like, afterall, tend to be derivative of other stuff. |
| 06:12 | | kaura [kaura@Nightstar-fd82400d.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #code |
| 06:12 | | * Vornicus gives Kaura a cheese. |
| 06:13 | < kaura> | nom |
| 06:14 | | * Orthia tries to think. |
| 06:15 | < Orthia> | Am I overcomplicating this initial stage? |
| 06:15 | < Orthia> | What we really want is "Has spare ore" and "Eats spare ore", right? |
| 06:15 | | kwsn\burn_refs is now known as kwsn |
| 06:15 | < Vornicus> | Makes ore, eats ore. |
| 06:16 | < Vornicus> | That's all you need. However: in the real world, consumers have limits -- I can't eat five cheeseburgers! |
| 06:16 | < kaura> | Unless they were White Castle miniburgers. Those are pretty small, iirc. |
| 06:16 | <@Derakon> | Not all at once, anyway. |
| 06:16 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, I could chew through those pretty quickly. |
| 06:16 | | cpux is now known as shade_of_cpux |
| 06:17 | < Orthia> | Also in the real world, production is going to be something that gets ramped up when people think there is a demand, and will continue ramping up until it hits the local capacity, or demand plateaus |
| 06:17 | < Orthia> | (and with a clever spot of lag-inducing into the production, you can even have boom/bust cycles) |
| 06:19 | < Vornicus> | oh, Orthia |
| 06:19 | < Vornicus> | Look into Railroad Tycoon 3 |
| 06:20 | < Orthia> | ? |
| 06:20 | < Vornicus> | It does this sort of economic modeling. |
| 06:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Doesn't openTTD as well, and has the advantage of being open source |
| 06:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 06:23 | < Vornicus> | OpenTTD does not. |
| 06:24 | < Vornicus> | OpenTTD randomizes production and price curves. Railroad Tycoon 3 actually simulates non-railroad agents moving goods to figure pricing. |
| 06:26 | < Orthia> | funky. |
| 06:31 | < Orthia> | OK, so |
| 06:31 | < Vornicus> | Kaura: ready to improve on the Deckmangler? |
| 06:34 | < kaura> | Yep. |
| 06:34 | < kaura> | Alright, what was up next? |
| 06:35 | < Vornicus> | Well, we've got quite a few different places we can make improvements, but the one I want to think about first is the interface to drawing cards. |
| 06:35 | < Vornicus> | As you've probably noticed by now, you have to say "draw 1" to draw a single card. |
| 06:36 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 06:37 | < Vornicus> | I want to be able to say just "draw" and draw a card. |
| 06:38 | < kaura> | So have "draw" have a default value of 1? |
| 06:39 | < Vornicus> | Yeah. So the way we're going to do this is we're first going to make the draw function have a default "x" value of 1: say "x = 1" instead of just "x" in the function signature. |
| 06:40 | < Vornicus> | This means that if we call draw with just one parameter, it will set the second parameter to 1 because that's the default value. |
| 06:41 | < kaura> | Hm. So an if statement saying that if there's no input, just set x at 1? |
| 06:42 | < Vornicus> | Not in draw. In draw, we just put that thing there in the function signature, just like I described. |
| 06:44 | < kaura> | so "draw(deck, x = 1)?" |
| 06:44 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 06:44 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 06:44 | < Vornicus> | That's all we need to do there. Now let's go over to user_draw; there's quite a few things we need to do here. |
| 06:46 | < Vornicus> | First off, we need to check our parameter for an empty string; if there is one, then we call draw(deck) and return that. |
| 06:47 | < Vornicus> | --er, actually, that feels wrong especially considering what else we have to do in there. |
| 06:48 | < Vornicus> | Instead of that: check our parameter for an empty string; if it's empty, set the card-draw count (I'd call it count; you overwrote x) to 1; otherwise set it to str(x) as you already have. |
| 06:51 | < Vornicus> | Do you see what I'm saying? |
| 06:51 | < kaura> | Lesse... like this? http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/382 |
| 06:52 | < kaura> | Ooh, wait, missing a line, I think. |
| 06:53 | < Vornicus> | not quite -- the x = int(x) actually is in the else, and the draw is after it. |
| 06:53 | < Vornicus> | Also, use == |
| 06:53 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 06:54 | < kaura> | Right, error messages aplenty out of that one... |
| 06:55 | < Vornicus> | (after it as in, after everything.) |
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| 06:56 | < Orthia> | Vorn: I'm halfway surprised you're not using polymorphism. |
| 06:56 | < kaura> | polyhuh |
| 06:57 | < Orthia> | Kaura: It's fun |
| 06:57 | < Vornicus> | Orthia: I don't see a use for it here. |
| 06:57 | < Orthia> | Vorn: To slip into Javaese |
| 06:57 | < Orthia> | Draw() vs Draw(int n) |
| 06:57 | < kaura> | Vorn: Actually, I think I caught an earlier error. When you had me set x = 1 on the function signature, it wasn't playing quite nicely with the appended code to user_draw(x). When I removed it, "draw" and "draw #" both worked. |
| 06:57 | < Vornicus> | kaura: show me? |
| 06:58 | < Vornicus> | Orthia: we did add that to draw; however, we won't be using it because there's something else that we want to do here. ...though now that I think about it I suspect handling that something else in draw, sort of, is a better idea. |
| 06:58 | < Orthia> | That was my thinking, yes. |
| 07:00 | < kaura> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/383 |
| 07:01 | < Vornicus> | I don't see how it interfered, but okay. Anyway. |
| 07:02 | < Vornicus> | Now: what happens if we try to draw more cards than are in the deck? |
| 07:02 | < kaura> | Gives a blank line. |
| 07:02 | < Vornicus> | THat's actually kind of surprising! |
| 07:02 | < kaura> | O_o |
| 07:03 | | * Vornicus expected it to give you an exception. |
| 07:03 | < kaura> | ...weird, it did for draw 61, but not for draw 100 |
| 07:04 | < kaura> | Correction: it didn't if you tried to draw more cards than there are in the deck, prior to actually drawing cards from the deck. Let's see if that still holds true for 61 in the initial condition... |
| 07:04 | < kaura> | ... |
| 07:04 | < kaura> | Now it's giving me error messages as expected. |
| 07:04 | | * kaura eyes his computer |
| 07:05 | < Vornicus> | Weird. |
| 07:05 | < kaura> | O_o Alright, this is weird. Can't make it spit out that blank line anymore. |
| 07:05 | < Vornicus> | Well, now it's working like it should. |
| 07:05 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 07:05 | < Vornicus> | You'll notice a couple of things: the error message is "Can't pop from empty list" or something like that. |
| 07:06 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 07:06 | < Vornicus> | This means that accidentally drawing more cards than you have 1. doesn't show you the cards you drew, and 2. /murders the entire deck anyway/ |
| 07:07 | < Vornicus> | This is not cool; so what we're going to do is check for this condition before actually drawing any cards, and raise our own error when that happens. |
| 07:08 | < kaura> | So elif x > 60: return "error message" right? |
| 07:08 | < Vornicus> | This happens in draw; in user_draw we're going to catch the error. |
| 07:08 | < Vornicus> | There aren't always 60 cards in the deck. |
| 07:08 | < kaura> | ...ooh, wait, not q- yeah, just realized that. |
| 07:08 | < Vornicus> | And we don't use return. |
| 07:10 | < Vornicus> | so, in the line before the return, compare x to the number of cards currently in deck. |
| 07:12 | < Vornicus> | then, if x is bigger than the number of cards, do this: raise ValueError, "Can't draw more cards than are in the deck!" |
| 07:12 | < kaura> | ...is it just a matter of assigning "x > deck?" |
| 07:13 | < Vornicus> | No, use if |
| 07:13 | < kaura> | Well, elif x > deck: |
| 07:13 | < Vornicus> | where the hell are you putting that |
| 07:13 | < kaura> | Would it automatically compare the deck quantity, or is more work to be done? |
| 07:13 | < kaura> | user_draw, right? |
| 07:13 | < Vornicus> | no, this is in draw |
| 07:13 | < kaura> | Ahh. |
| 07:13 | < Vornicus> | user_draw will catch the error. |
| 07:17 | < kaura> | Hrn. Still not quite right... |
| 07:18 | < Vornicus> | Show me what you tried |
| 07:18 | < kaura> | Oh, right. I think I got it. Forgot to append an else: condition. As it is, even after raising the Value Error, it'll try to run the return... I think. |
| 07:19 | < kaura> | ...nno. |
| 07:19 | < Vornicus> | Nope. Raising skips absolutely /everything/ until there's a try/except around it. |
| 07:21 | < kaura> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/384 |
| 07:21 | < Vornicus> | deck, unfortunately, won't tell you its size unless you ask for it specifically. |
| 07:22 | < kaura> | Right, I thought I was missing that. ...hn... |
| 07:22 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:23 | < kaura> | 'lo TW |
| 07:26 | < Vornicus> | So how do you get the number of things in something? |
| 07:26 | < Vornicus> | (I think we've used this but I don't actually remember where!) |
| 07:26 | < kaura> | The... length, I think. So len(deck)? |
| 07:27 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 07:28 | < kaura> | Success! |
| 07:28 | < Vornicus> | Woot |
| 07:28 | < Vornicus> | Now, back over to user_draw |
| 07:33 | < Vornicus> | Having raised an exception, we must now catch it. We've done this before somewhere else. |
| 07:34 | < kaura> | Was down at command(), for len(split_cmnd) == 0: return "No command given" right? |
| 07:34 | < Vornicus> | Nope. |
| 07:34 | < kaura> | ...hrn. |
| 07:35 | < Vornicus> | Read up a bit; I mentioned the thing that you need. |
| 07:35 | < kaura> | Oh, try/except |
| 07:36 | < Vornicus> | Right. We've used this once before, but we're going to be a little fancier about it now. |
| 07:39 | < Vornicus> | Wrap... well, all right, pretty much the entire contents of user_draw in a try: block, and then you need an "except Exception as e:" after it. THis says we want all kinds of errors to get caught, and we want the error to be named e when we've got one. |
| 07:40 | < kaura> | "except Exception as e:"? So it it's "except" followed by defining "Exception" as variable "e"? |
| 07:41 | < Vornicus> | It's actually saying "this except block handles all exceptions of type Exception (or any of its subtypes; all the exceptions you want to deal with are of a subtype of Exception) |
| 07:41 | < Vornicus> | and will call any exception it receives "e' |
| 07:42 | < kaura> | Ah. |
| 07:47 | | TarinakyWeb [50e51fec@Nightstar-992d69e3.mibbit.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] |
| 07:47 | < Vornicus> | And once we're in the except there, just return str(e) |
| 07:51 | < kaura> | Alright. ...so what exactly is str(e) and how does it interact with the earlier ValueError? |
| 07:51 | < kaura> | Oh, it just prints out the string after the exception that's triggered. |
| 07:51 | < kaura> | Oooh. |
| 07:51 | < Vornicus> | str(e) is a stringification of the error's parameters. |
| 07:52 | < kaura> | Ah, I see it now. |
| 07:53 | < Vornicus> | Anyway by wrapping the entire contents of the function in that try block, we also neatly take care of a somewhat different problem. |
| 07:54 | < Vornicus> | See, there's one other thing in user_draw that can reasonably be expected to spew an error. |
| 07:55 | < kaura> | A negative draw? >_> |
| 07:55 | < Vornicus> | Actually that just won't do anything. |
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| 07:55 | < kaura> | Oh, you're right. |
| 07:56 | < kaura> | Oh, a non-integer draw. |
| 07:56 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 07:58 | < kaura> | Yep, that spits out an exception properly now. |
| 07:58 | < Vornicus> | It's kinda of a hairy, horrible exception, but let's leave that for now. |
| 07:58 | < Vornicus> | What does it actually say when you draw 7 cards from a fresh deck? |
| 07:59 | < kaura> | ['Ichorclaw Myr', 'Plague Stinger', 'Swamp', 'Plague Stinger', 'Drowned Catacombs', 'Swamp', 'Island'] |
| 07:59 | < Vornicus> | Kinda a pain to read, isn't it. |
| 07:59 | < kaura> | Yeah. Should probably list each string as a separate line, huh? |
| 08:00 | < Vornicus> | Which is exactly what we're about to do. |
| 08:00 | < kaura> | Yay~ |
| 08:00 | < kaura> | But gimme a sec. Need a quick break and more ice water. |
| 08:00 | < Vornicus> | We want to do this in user_draw; note that there, we can't use print: we have to figure out how to glom together a string with a bunch of line breaks in it, instead. |
| 08:00 | < Vornicus> | ok |
| 08:04 | | kwsn [kwsn@Nightstar-a0abd809.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 08:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
| 08:25 | < kaura> | Right, back. |
| 08:26 | < kaura> | The opposite of line.strip then? A command to insert a line break after every string? |
| 08:26 | < kaura> | er, every entry |
| 08:26 | < Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 08:27 | < Vornicus> | Meet string's "join" method. |
| 08:28 | < Vornicus> | my_str.join(list) will make a string where each element in list is joined together by my_str: "-".join(['a','b','c']) gives "a-b-c" |
| 08:28 | < Vornicus> | In this case, however, we want to use "\n" instead of "-" -- \n is the line break thingy. |
| 08:28 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 08:29 | < Vornicus> | And since draw() produces a list... |
| 08:31 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 08:32 | < kaura> | ...hm... not doing this right... |
| 08:33 | < Vornicus> | So, draw produces a list. |
| 08:33 | < Vornicus> | We want to get in between producing that list and returning something. |
| 08:33 | < kaura> | Ah. So delete "return" from draw(deck, x), and have the return line instead spit out that plus the appended breaks. |
| 08:34 | < Vornicus> | yeah. you can actually just wrap the draw in the join. |
| 08:35 | < kaura> | Well, it's working. There's only the small problem now that it returns a blank line when I first try a command, but works normally thereafter. O_o |
| 08:36 | < Vornicus> | ...what the fuck |
| 08:36 | < Vornicus> | show me your code |
| 08:36 | < kaura> | http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/385 |
| 08:37 | < kaura> | Reseting IDLE fixes it. I suspect it's nothing wrong with the code itself. |
| 08:37 | | * kaura eyes his computer again |
| 08:37 | < Vornicus> | Yeah, I'm gonna say it's IDLE being odd. |
| 08:37 | < kaura> | ...a nicely playable hand, that sample... |
| 08:42 | | * Vornicus examines draw. Was there anything else he wanted to do with it... |
| 08:42 | < Vornicus> | actually I don't think so! |
| 08:43 | < Vornicus> | Oh. I did have a question: is there any situation where a player can be asked to draw more cards than he has, and it doesn't kill him. |
| 08:44 | < kaura> | Yes, Platinum Angel. Controlling player cannot lose the game. Including via deck out, poison counters, loss of life, or cards that otherwise say that the opponent wins the game or player loses it. |
| 08:44 | < Vornicus> | Okay. So we're going to need a "soft" draw. |
| 08:45 | < Vornicus> | Copy user_draw wholesale into a function called user_soft_draw |
| 08:45 | < kaura> | k |
| 08:46 | < Vornicus> | And then draw wholesale into a function called soft_draw |
| 08:46 | < Vornicus> | and change user_soft_draw to call soft_draw instead of draw. |
| 08:47 | < kaura> | Right. |
| 08:48 | < Vornicus> | Okay, now we're going to make exactly one change: in that if statement, instead of raising, set x to len(deck) |
| 08:50 | < Vornicus> | And once that's done, add user_soft_draw to our command dispatch, but I don't know what to call it. You only get one word though. |
| 08:51 | < kaura> | Hrn, So, wait. user_soft_draw(x): try: if: x == "": x = len(deck)? |
| 08:52 | < Vornicus> | No, no. |
| 08:52 | < Vornicus> | Do the change in soft_draw, not user_soft_draw |
| 08:52 | < kaura> | Oh, whups |
| 08:54 | < kaura> | so soft_draw(deck, x): if x == len(deck): |
| 08:54 | < kaura> | Shouldn't it be >=? |
| 08:55 | < Vornicus> | > |
| 08:56 | < Vornicus> | (and the change is inside the block - we're replacing the raise.) |
| 09:01 | < Vornicus> | Did you die? |
| 09:01 | < kaura> | Not quite, but a few distractions came up. Lesse... |
| 09:03 | < kaura> | Wait. How is x > len(deck): in soft_draw different from the if line in draw? The code looks identical so far - or is it supposed to, and we're only now about to change it? |
| 09:03 | < Vornicus> | That if line isn't supposed to change. |
| 09:03 | < kaura> | Ah. |
| 09:04 | < Vornicus> | What we're changing is what happens when it /is/ over: specifically, instead of complaining, it should just give you all the cards that are left. |
| 09:04 | < Vornicus> | We're going to do this by changing x from what it was, to len(deck) |
| 09:04 | < kaura> | Ooh, so if x > len(deck): x == len(deck) |
| 09:04 | < Vornicus> | Not == |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | (that's comparison) |
| 09:05 | < kaura> | Ah. |
| 09:05 | < kaura> | Right, just once to assign. |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | Right. |
| 09:05 | < Vornicus> | And now that that's done we can go add it to the dispatch dict; idunno what to call it though. "softdraw" might be the best name. |
| 09:06 | < kaura> | Had it as "pull." |
| 09:06 | < Vornicus> | Works too. |
| 09:08 | < Vornicus> | And that, I think, is enough for tonight. |
| 09:08 | < kaura> | Alright. Sorry for the delays, and thank you again for your guidance. |
| 09:09 | | * kaura eyes QC |
| 09:09 | < kaura> | Aw, Hanners is cute. |
| 09:10 | < Vornicus> | <3 Hanners |
| 09:10 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:18 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-912353ec.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #code |
| 09:54 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 10:02 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@Nightstar-912353ec.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Uniwards.] |
| 11:08 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@F67919.F326B3.98D923.BDA7B6] has joined #code |
| 11:59 | | * Anno[Laptop] grapples with Java. |
| 12:00 | < Anno[Laptop]> | This error just came out of nowhere: non-static variable this cannot be referenced from a static context. |
| 12:01 | < Anno[Laptop]> | http://pastie.org/1186242 |
| 12:01 | < Anno[Laptop]> | The error shows up on "MagFrame frame = new MagFrame();". |
| 12:02 | < Anno[Laptop]> | The error appeared when I wrote the last three lines, but won't disappear after they're commented out. |
| 12:02 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Help? |
| 12:04 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has joined #code |
| 12:06 | < Anno[Laptop]> | I have no idea what to do. |
| 12:06 | < Anno[Laptop]> | celticminstrel: You any good with Java? |
| 12:12 | <@TheWatcher> | Is MagFrame in a different .java file, or in the same one as your Main class? |
| 12:12 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Same as Main. |
| 12:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Put it in a different file |
| 12:13 | < celticminstrel> | Sort of. |
| 12:13 | <@TheWatcher> | Java gets funny about having more than one class in a file sometimes |
| 12:13 | | gnolaptop [wintermute@Nightstar-e88b6e38.eduroam.liu.se] has joined #code |
| 12:14 | < gnolaptop> | Oh joy. Internet outage. |
| 12:15 | < gnolaptop> | Which means that I can either work or check documentation. Not both. |
| 12:16 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Now it's reaching the end of file while parsing. |
| 12:17 | < Anno[Laptop]> | TheWatcher: It's the same code as before, but I put MagFrame in its own file. |
| 12:18 | < Anno[Laptop]> | The last curly bracket in the Main file gets underline and flagged as an error. |
| 12:18 | <@TheWatcher> | Add another - you need one to close your main() method, and one to close the class |
| 12:18 | | celticminstrel [celticminstre@Nightstar-f8b608eb.cable.rogers.com] has quit [[NS] Quit: And lo! The computer falls into a deep sleep, to awake again some other day!] |
| 12:20 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Huh. I have no idea where one of them has gone. |
| 12:20 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Thank you. |
| 12:24 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-473f8685.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Client exited] |
| 12:25 | < gnolaptop> | Anno: stolen by brace gnomes. |
| 12:26 | | kaura is now known as Kaura|zzz |
| 12:27 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Damn gnomes. This is why they were exiled to the Monster Manual in 4e. |
| 12:27 | | * Anno[Laptop] finds that he has completely forgotten how to handle button events in Java. |
| 12:28 | < Anno[Laptop]> | Well, actually, I do remember that the way I was taught to do it was with a three-fold nested construct of new objects and stuff. Very arcane. |
| 12:33 | < Anno[Laptop]> | There we go. I found some old code. |
| 12:47 | | Anno[Laptop] [annodomini@F67919.F326B3.98D923.BDA7B6] has quit [[NS] Quit: Enough work for the day.] |
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| 16:21 | | Perl is now known as PinkFreud |
| 17:02 | | Anno[Laptop] is now known as EbonDragon |
| 17:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. I can't remember if Java's GUI libraries are of the "extend GUI classes, override event handler methods" or the "attach anonymous objects to signals in an unnecessarily convoluted manner" type. |
| 17:59 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:04 | <@TheWatcher> | You attach listeners to events |
| 18:07 | <@TheWatcher> | you'll generally either make your class implement one of the various *Listener interfaces, and do a component.addActionListener(this) or use anonymous inner class listeners (component.addActionListener(new ActionListener() { public void actionPerformed(ActionEvent e) { .... } }); |
| 18:08 | <@TheWatcher> | The fact I can remember this, not having touched swing for nearly 2 years, is a good indication of how badly it scarred my headbones~ |
| 18:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah yes, now I remember why I hate GUI programming in Java~ |
| 18:39 | < Namegduf> | s/GUI // in my case. |
| 18:40 | | * Namegduf has had to use Swing |
| 18:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, yes, but I hate GUI programming in Java for specific reasons in addition to my dislike of Java as a whole. |
| 18:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reasons which probably wouldn't be an issue if, for example, using a Java binding to a different toolkit. |
| 19:02 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #code |
| 19:36 | | * Vornicus-Latens found gui programming in JS to be rather relaxing except for the occasional "IE doesn't do this and you have to support IE" bullshit. |
| 19:37 | < Namegduf> | Me too. |
| 19:37 | < Namegduf> | And IE is better at JS than it is at HTML/CSS. |
| 19:44 | < gnolam> | Doesn't say much though. :P |
| 20:52 | | Kaura|zzz is now known as Kaura |
| 21:20 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 22:24 | <@jerith> | 22:56 < mithrandi> <glyph> tenth: you still can't tell the Windows ME clients to die in a fire yet? |
| 22:24 | <@jerith> | 22:56 < mithrandi> <tenth> We've tried |
| 22:24 | <@jerith> | 22:56 < mithrandi> <tenth> One of them did actually die in a fire |
| 22:24 | <@jerith> | 22:56 < mithrandi> <glyph> okay I'm trying to feel like a bad person for saying that now |
| 22:24 | <@jerith> | 22:56 < mithrandi> <glyph> but I can't muster it |
| 22:25 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:29 | | Thaqui [Thaqui@27B34E.D54D49.F53FA1.6A113C] has quit [Connection closed] |
| 22:38 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-cfae48c3.ca.comcast.net] has left #code [] |
| 22:38 | | Derakon [Derakon@Nightstar-cfae48c3.ca.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 22:38 | < Derakon> | Whups. |
| 22:38 | | mode/#code [+o Derakon] by Reiver |
| 23:10 | < gnolam> | Aight. Text output actually works pretty well now. Now I just have to decide which parts of the basic multilingual plane I care about. |
| 23:11 | <@McMartin> | Only noncombining characters, zomg |
| 23:21 | < gnolam> | Looks like I get away with Latin-1 (0000-00ff) + Cyrillic (0400-04ff). Sweet. Only need two glyph atlases then. |
| 23:21 | < gnolam> | *atlasses |
| 23:21 | <@McMartin> | Watcha doin'? |
| 23:24 | < gnolam> | Right now? Trying to wrap FreeType in some remotely sane way. |
| 23:32 | | shade_of_cpux is now known as cpux |
| 23:33 | | * gnolam stabs OpenGL for setting the RGB components of a GL_ALPHA texture to 0 instead of 1. |
| 23:36 | | Kaura is now known as Kaura|bbl |
| 23:46 | | AnnoDomini [annodomini@Nightstar-912353ec.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: leaving] |
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| --- Log closed Wed Sep 29 00:00:57 2010 |