| --- Log opened Tue May 04 00:00:22 2010 |
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| 01:35 | | * ToxicFrog eyes Tarinaky |
| 01:35 | | * ToxicFrog eyes Taki^, rather |
| 01:36 | < Tarinaky> | Aww, I was hoping you were checking me out :p |
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| 02:00 | <@Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 02:01 | <@Namegduf> | I think I just came to the conclusion that the problem with Java is that the ability to guaranteeably swap out implementations transparently, rather than only sometimes be able to do so, of very small chunks of the program, is not actually a very useful ability. |
| 02:02 | | Taki^ [jwjw@Nightstar-9b459f81.consolidated.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 121 seconds] |
| 02:02 | <@Namegduf> | As opposed to the holy grail of perfect code. |
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| 02:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | I thought the problem with Java is that for any given class it has 20 poorly documented, subtly different classes. |
| 02:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, that plus the type system. |
| 02:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Er. |
| 02:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | For any given task. |
| 02:08 | <@Namegduf> | That too. |
| 02:13 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-38637aa0.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [[NS] Quit: Z?] |
| 02:15 | <@Namegduf> | The type system isn't really so bad, it's the type system plus heavy use of the decorator pattern. |
| 02:15 | <@Namegduf> | So everything is a type in a type in a type and argh. |
| 02:15 | <@Namegduf> | And of overuse of abstractions leading to extra conversions on its own, too. |
| 02:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | I mean more "the type system mixes primitives and complete classes freely and doesn't reliably coerce" |
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| 04:07 | <@McMartin> | Nah, because that's no worse than everything that came before it. |
| 04:07 | <@McMartin> | All counterexamples are secretly "there is no such thing as a primitive that's exposed to the programmer at all, lolz" |
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| 04:35 | | * Alek shudders. |
| 04:35 | < Alek> | http://www.bezbrige.com/images/stories/galerija/09/rusija/only_in_russia_21.jpg |
| 04:36 | < Tarinaky> | Alek: Looks like me and my friend's flat. |
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| 06:07 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Ugh. It's not a good sign when the editor you're trying out use option files, and buried inside one is an explanation of how to enable gtk1 non-antialiased fonts to boost rendering speed |
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| 06:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | medit is better.. |
| 06:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | You can configure it for backspace unindents and for showing garbage whitespace |
| 06:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | (I have a lot of garbage thanks to anjuta) |
| 06:21 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-fd1d22c2.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Client closed the connection] |
| 06:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Also lets me select vim's classic syntax highlighting mode, which is nice |
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| 06:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Hey, block commenting/uncommenting. Sweet. |
| 06:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | wee, output window that lets me click on tracebacks to get to source |
| 06:33 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've been deprived for so long x_x |
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| 06:36 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by Reiver |
| 06:48 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Heh Anjuta can search through documentation, such as the Python 2.6 docs.. unfortunately it's only the C API of Python 2.6 ;) |
| 07:10 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:29 | < Tarinaky> | Gah. I remember I had an awesome website a few weeks ago but can't remember the URI q.q |
| 07:29 | < Tarinaky> | Damnit. It had tons of algorithms on it. |
| 07:29 | < Tarinaky> | I thought I'd bookmarked it to :/ |
| 07:45 | < Tarinaky> | Ahah! Found it. |
| 07:45 | < Tarinaky> | Not as useful as I remember it being now I flick through it :/ |
| 07:45 | < Tarinaky> | Oh well. |
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| 08:02 | | mode/#code [+o jerith] by Reiver |
| 08:03 | < Rhamphoryncus> | doh, always something stupid. Switching tabs is done with alt-left and alt-right rather than ctrl-pageup and ctrl-pagedown |
| 08:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[afk] |
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| 10:32 | < Tarinaky> | Any recommendations on books I should try to find in my University library to help with computer game project? |
| 10:33 | < Tarinaky> | I was going to try and get the second vol. of The Art of Programming since I know there're some PRNG algorithms in there. |
| 10:34 | < Tarinaky> | For context it's a 2D TBS/RPG hybrid. |
| 10:35 | < Tarinaky> | Something that helps with my (lack of) knowledge of Game AI would be grand even though the other guy says he's got it covered. |
| 10:51 | <@TheWatcher> | If they have the Game PRogramming Gems books, they're definitely worth a look |
| 10:52 | <@TheWatcher> | There's a lot in there that won't apply directly, but there's a lot of Food for Thought, and usefull stuff to know |
| 10:53 | < Tarinaky> | They do not. |
| 10:53 | < Tarinaky> | I already checked. |
| 10:54 | < Tarinaky> | I don't believe they have anything directly relating to Game Programming - at least in the title. |
| 10:54 | < Tarinaky> | But... well... programming is programming :p |
| 10:55 | < Tarinaky> | I take that back. They have "Killer game programming in Java" and "XNA 3.0 game programming recipes : a problem-solving approach" |
| 10:55 | <@TheWatcher> | ... uh-huh |
| 10:56 | < Tarinaky> | Neither of which seem applicable to my needs. (C++) |
| 10:58 | < Tarinaky> | But yeah. Art of Programming 1 is just data structures right? |
| 10:58 | <@TheWatcher> | And, honestly, programming may be programming, but game programming often involves techniques and concepts you don't find in most other areas |
| 10:58 | < Tarinaky> | Oh I agree. But they still crop up in other areas. |
| 10:59 | < Tarinaky> | Plus I need some reading material for the summer break anyway >.> |
| 11:00 | <@TheWatcher> | absorbing things like the effective C++ books will help you, as will absorbing books on efficient AI programming, but you're likely to not run into a lot of stuff |
| 11:02 | < Tarinaky> | Well, they have a ton of copies of effective C++. The downside is they're in the Orange Zone. |
| 11:02 | < Tarinaky> | Which is above my security clearance... >.> |
| 11:03 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wut |
| 11:04 | < Tarinaky> | The Orange Zone is for Staff and Postgrads iirc. |
| 11:06 | <@TheWatcher> | Huh. I knew Leicester were a bit odd, but sheesh |
| 11:07 | <@TheWatcher> | (although, getting your own copy would be a Good Thing anyway, if you can afford it) |
| 11:07 | < Tarinaky> | I don't think I'm not allowed to take it out on loan... |
| 11:07 | < Tarinaky> | But I certainly can't just walk in and get it. |
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| 11:20 | < Tarinaky> | I need to heard off for a lecture now. Later. |
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| 13:45 | | * gnolam idly wonders if he can get away with a nearly screen buffer-sized cube map. |
| 14:05 | < Tarinaky> | Back! |
| 14:05 | < Tarinaky> | I was wrong. The Orange zone -wasn't- above my security clearance. |
| 14:06 | < Tarinaky> | Turns out I'm an Orange Citizen! |
| 14:06 | | * Tarinaky changes jumpsuit. |
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| 14:09 | <@TheWatcher> | So you have sucessfully negotiated the Enrichment Centre? ¬¬ |
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| 14:16 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | gnolam: 2 megacubes mibght be possible, but if you're looking to have it have any depth, it gets ridiculous quickly. |
| 14:22 | | Reiv[Graduate] [orthianz@Nightstar-4540154d.xnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 14:23 | < Tarinaky> | I picked up Effective C++ and Art of Programming 2. |
| 14:23 | <@TheWatcher> | \o/ |
| 14:26 | < gnolam> | Vornicus: depth? |
| 14:29 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | Three dimensions, right? |
| 14:31 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | your cube map, being the size of the screen, probably has 2 megacubes just from the length and width of the screen. Adding the third dimension makes it worse - a depth of 128 cubes gives 1/4 GB for each byte in your per-cube data. |
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| 14:58 | < gnolam> | Err. Cube map. Not voxels. |
| 15:00 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | ...not sure of the distinction here? |
| 15:02 | < gnolam> | A cube map is a special form of 3D texture, a w x h x 6 texture. |
| 15:02 | < gnolam> | Used mostly to simulate reflections. |
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| 15:03 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | why 6? |
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| 15:03 | < gnolam> | You render from the reflecting object's POV in each of the 6 cardinal directions, corresponding to the cube map's faces. |
| 15:05 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 15:05 | <@Vornicus> | oh, oh, oh, one of those, okay. |
| 15:05 | <@Vornicus> | it's a map on a cube. not a map in a cube. |
| 15:06 | < gnolam> | So when you render your object in the actual scene, you can then calculate a per-fragment reflection vector and use that as a texture coordinate into the cube map (with some hardware magic that translate's the 3D vector to a 2D coordinate on the proper face). |
| 15:06 | < gnolam> | Yes. |
| 15:06 | < gnolam> | -' |
| 15:07 | < gnolam> | Since you're re-rendering the scene 6 times /per reflecting object/, this obviously gets expensive fast. |
| 15:08 | < gnolam> | So you usually keep them quite small - something like 256x256 is quite common. |
| 15:11 | < gnolam> | But now that I'm adding a proper night sky, I'm hitting the resolution limit - a 1x1 pixel star in even a 512x512 cube map becomes ridiculously big. |
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| 15:55 | | * gnolam adjusts his apparent magnitude -> color calculations. |
| 15:56 | < gnolam> | There. Common constellations are now recognizable. |
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| 17:18 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| --- Log closed Tue May 04 17:19:31 2010 |
| --- Log opened Tue May 04 17:20:05 2010 |
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| 21:31 | | * ToxicFrog discovers M-x ansi-term |
| 21:32 | < celticminstrel> | Isn't M-x just "call this Lisp function"? |
| 21:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 21:56 | | Rhamphoryncus [rhamph@Nightstar-8931f88f.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | What causes python to raise a KeyError? |
| 22:12 | < celticminstrel> | I think it's if you try to get a key from a dictionary that doesn't exist. |
| 22:13 | < celticminstrel> | x = {'a':'one, 'b':two}; print x['q']; |
| 22:13 | < celticminstrel> | ^with additional quotes |
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| 23:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | celticminstrel: thank you. |
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| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | (I'm updating the git-p4 bridge for work. It works in small tests, raises KeyError when I try actually using it on the 5GB repo that takes hours to sync >.<) |
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| --- Log closed Wed May 05 00:00:52 2010 |