| --- Log opened Tue Apr 06 00:00:47 2010 |
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| 01:38 | | * McMartin closes four bugs |
| 01:38 | <@McMartin> | At least half of them were real. |
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| 01:42 | < gnolam> | At least? I guess this is a complex program then. |
| 01:42 | <@McMartin> | Absurdly |
| 01:43 | <@McMartin> | All the good stuff happens at the systemic test level |
| 01:43 | < gnolam> | The systemic test level? |
| 01:44 | < gnolam> | (I was actually just making a horrible pun, but anyway...) |
| 01:48 | <@McMartin> | It's fairly enterprisey software, so you've got a client program, a couple of data servers, and some pretty complicated interactions between them all. Unit tests don't get you all that far so "closing a bug" really means "throwing it back over to the significantly larger QA department to make sure the fix *actually* works in a real deployment" |
| 01:54 | < gnolam> | Ah. |
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| 04:28 | | * Orthia ponders Vornicus |
| 04:29 | <@Vornicus> | ? |
| 04:32 | < Orthia> | So I have been poking at the exciting world of dynamic programming. |
| 04:33 | <@Vornicus> | ah so |
| 04:33 | < Orthia> | I was wondering if you, as a computer scientist minded mathematician, would be willing to see if this made any sense at all? |
| 04:34 | < Orthia> | It is apparently 'straightforward enough once you work out the logic', and being a math-major is a major boon, but man, I am so clearly not a math major~ |
| 04:34 | < Orthia> | http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tcs/COMP317/Assignments/assign2-2010.html - links to sheet1 & sheet2 are the real meat of the puzzle. |
| 04:38 | | * Vornicus has determined that he actually doesn't know dynamic programming! |
| 04:38 | < Orthia> | Eep! |
| 04:38 | < Orthia> | I can provide links to helpful sites on the 'simpler' version of this problem? |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | By "dynamic programming" here do we in fact mean "systematic exploitation of memoization", or the one that's the weird collection of inequalities? |
| 04:40 | < Orthia> | er |
| 04:40 | < Orthia> | knapsack problem. |
| 04:40 | < Orthia> | >_> |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | -_- |
| 04:40 | <@McMartin> | There's no such thing as a "simpler version" of the knapsack problem |
| 04:41 | < Orthia> | Well, there is the integer-based knapsack problem, wherein you can solve it with for loops and array indices |
| 04:41 | < Orthia> | And then there is the floating-point variety, where you need to start playing with list sets and discarding subsumed solutions so you don't devour your entire memory. |
| 04:44 | < Orthia> | Both are solved in polynomial time, but the former is seen as the simpler one due to implementation details. |
| 04:44 | <@McMartin> | Um. IIRC, integer knapsack is NP-Complete. |
| 04:44 | <@McMartin> | I may have it confused with bin-packing. |
| 04:46 | < Orthia> | Integer knapsack is polynomial assuming you can make a set of assumptions; this is what we had described to us as the core of dynamic programming. |
| 04:46 | <@McMartin> | The bin is expandible |
| 04:47 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, I had them confused |
| 04:47 | < Orthia> | aha, righto |
| 04:47 | <@McMartin> | Bin-packing you have to actually model the space they take up |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | Hup, no |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | Knapsack is also, in fact, NP-Complete |
| 04:48 | <@McMartin> | However, you can get a "pseudo-polynomial time" algo with dynamic programming |
| 04:48 | < Orthia> | I think that was the idea, yeah |
| 04:49 | <@McMartin> | Anyway, the knapsack problem can be stated as a recurrence |
| 04:49 | < Orthia> | http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/~alison/ds98/node122.html - the notes we were given on the knapsack problem |
| 04:49 | < Orthia> | Integer version, anyway. |
| 04:49 | < Orthia> | (He taught us the integer version, and left us to figure out the floating point one ourselves. Such a lovely teacher~) |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | OK, so, try the Wiki page |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | They phrase it more directly in Math, stating the solution as a recurrence |
| 04:50 | <@McMartin> | The trick for dynamic programming is that you have your f(x) defined in terms of f(y < x) |
| 04:51 | <@McMartin> | So you speed things up by starting with some base cases and then keeping your previous results around to speed up the computation of everything past it |
| 04:55 | < Orthia> | right |
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| 06:56 | <@Kazriko> | Huh. going from the intel i7-920 stock fan to a zalman fan dropped the temp by 19C. |
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| 13:31 | | * Thalass ponders |
| 13:31 | < Thalass> | If I have the source code of a windows program (written in VB) is it possible to compile it for a linux distro? |
| 13:32 | < Thalass> | Fracas is the program in question. |
| 13:33 | < Namegduf> | No. |
| 13:34 | <@TheWatcher> | Tried OpenFracas? Don't know how far along they are with it, but... |
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| 14:02 | < Namegduf> | Try WINE. |
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| 15:27 | <@Derakon[AFK]> | "This is a reminder that the UC Training Requirement-Annual Compliance Briefing for employees is due %DueDate&." |
| 15:27 | < Namegduf> | Useful. |
| 15:52 | <@ToxicFrog> | Thalass: if it were VB.NET, probably. Plain VB? Nope. |
| 15:53 | < Thalass> | ah pity |
| 15:53 | < Thalass> | fracas is neato |
| 15:53 | < Thalass> | but it works in wine, so it's not a big deal |
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| 19:55 | <@McMartin> | OK, today I froth at QA |
| 19:55 | <@McMartin> | when something works, you're supposed to close the bug, not reassign it to dev with "IT WORKS!" |
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| 19:56 | < Namegduf> | Maybe it's marked as an expected failure. |
| 19:59 | <@McMartin> | Hah. The bug was, in fact, an error was not being signaled right. |
| 19:59 | <@McMartin> | (Also, froth partially revoked; they did this so that the bug tracker would send all the emails they needed automatically.) |
| 19:59 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 20:00 | <@McMartin> | Our QA department is fantastic, it really is. |
| 20:00 | <@McMartin> | It's just that the process itself is sometimes trying. |
| 20:00 | <@McMartin> | (Totally not kidding; checking against other companies we seem to be way better about this than the norm) |
| 20:00 | < Namegduf> | XD |
| 20:27 | <@TheWatcher> | ... wait, the bug tracker doesn't email everyone on close? |
| 20:27 | <@TheWatcher> | How... odd. |
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| 20:42 | <@McMartin> | TW: Only reporter and person it's presently assigned to |
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| 21:17 | <@TheWatcher> | Woe. |
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| 22:41 | < gnolam> | Rargh. Triangulation in 3D is going to be harder than I thought. |
| 22:43 | < gnolam> | Or maybe I'm just being thick again. |
| 22:44 | <@jerith> | As two short planks? |
| 22:44 | < gnolam> | Possibly. |
| 22:47 | < gnolam> | I need to check if the vertices are reflex or convex. This is easy in 2D, but in 3D there are... complications. |
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| 23:08 | | * ToxicFrog ponders asynchronous vs synchronous |
| 23:10 | < gnolam> | Asynchronous vs synchronous what |
| 23:10 | < gnolam> | ? |
| 23:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | client/server gaming |
| 23:11 | | * gnolam ponders a custom keyboard with the enter having lots of empty space between it and its neighboring buttons. |
| 23:11 | < gnolam> | +key |
| 23:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Basically, when a client does something, does it block until the server returns something useful, or does it log a request with the server which later emits an event? |
| 23:14 | < gnolam> | Depends on the kind of game, but generally: the latter. With extrapolation until it receives a reply. |
| 23:15 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | And in the former case, traditionally one "delays" one's input so that there's time to sort it out. |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | Like, "I'm doing X five frames from now" |
| 23:16 | <@McMartin> | So as to not have lag jitter alter the framerate. |
| --- Log closed Wed Apr 07 00:00:48 2010 |