| --- Log opened Thu Feb 25 00:00:03 2010 |
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| 02:53 | < celticminstrel> | I'm thinking I like wxWidgets... |
| 02:56 | <@Derakon> | Mmm, I wouldn't go around espousing such views around here. ¬.¬ |
| 02:56 | < Namegduf> | "Them's fightin' words." |
| 02:56 | < Namegduf> | (I kid, I have no real opinion on wxWidgets. :P) |
| 02:56 | <@Derakon> | I know McM prefers Qt, and I'm stuck with wxWidgets. |
| 02:58 | < celticminstrel> | To be fair, I haven't actually tried Qt. |
| 02:58 | | * Derakon eyes this article: http://blog.sucuri.net/2010/02/godaddy-security-update.html |
| 02:58 | | * Vornicus should look into Qt |
| 02:58 | <@Derakon> | Short version: GoDaddy keeps your login credentials and will try to log in as you to fix malware issues it thinks you have. |
| 02:59 | < Namegduf> | Not news. |
| 02:59 | < Namegduf> | Every VPS company will either shut your stuff down, or force login to it, if it displays signs of malware, which are normally very very obvious. |
| 02:59 | <@Derakon> | Well, not that I was planning to use them myself ever. |
| 03:00 | <@Derakon> | Shutting down access or doing port blocking would be the proper way to handle malware issues. |
| 03:00 | < Namegduf> | Port blocking isn't right |
| 03:00 | < Namegduf> | Because the issues in question are generally ones it doesn't fix. |
| 03:00 | <@Derakon> | Logging onto your box as you? Uh-unh. Major privacy issue there. |
| 03:01 | < celticminstrel> | There is one potentially minor annoying thing about wxWidgets. It seems I need to have a document open in order to set a menubar, which makes sense on Windows but not on Mac. |
| 03:01 | < Namegduf> | Malware, amongst other things, tends to issue outbound DDoS attacks, abuse I/O heavily locally, and use compromised things for quite a few unpleasant things like C&C servers. |
| 03:01 | < celticminstrel> | ^ minor potentially annoying, not potentially minor annoying. |
| 03:02 | < Namegduf> | While you could suppress a DDoS attack with a port block, depending on nature, it's unwise becuse you're only treating one symptom; it's just going to do other stuff. |
| 03:02 | <@Derakon> | These appear to be virtual servers; you can simply throttle down their CPU and allowed handles. |
| 03:02 | <@Derakon> | Or just turn the "machine" off entirely. |
| 03:05 | < Tarinaky> | Yeah. Storing the passwords, even encrypted, seems like a bad idea to me. |
| 03:06 | < Tarinaky> | In big fiery capital letters with twice as many exclamation marks as it needs. |
| 03:06 | < Tarinaky> | And a line underneath. |
| 03:06 | < Tarinaky> | Maybe even flashing. |
| 03:07 | < celticminstrel> | Logging into your account seems okay, but don't log in as someone else. Log in as an administrator instead. |
| 03:07 | < celticminstrel> | ...that was badly phrased. |
| 03:07 | < Tarinaky> | I think I know what you mean. |
| 03:08 | < celticminstrel> | Yay. |
| 03:08 | < Tarinaky> | Another concern of course is that if their priority is to fix a security problem what about my data? |
| 03:09 | < Tarinaky> | I mean. At least if I delete my data or render it unusable or whatever else by trying to fix a problem - it's my fault. |
| 03:09 | < Tarinaky> | And I've had chance to make sure all updates are up to date and all the rest. |
| 03:23 | < Namegduf> | Derakon: Er, "depends" |
| 03:23 | < Namegduf> | But you can't throttle down "allowed handles" on a true VPS. |
| 03:23 | < Namegduf> | Only a container-based one. |
| 03:23 | < Namegduf> | And container based ones, due to lack of separation in other ways, will be most unhappy about everything else the malware is doing. |
| 03:24 | < Namegduf> | (They're not so separated in resource usage as that) |
| 03:24 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, well. |
| 03:25 | < Namegduf> | Turning a machine off entirely is a popular option, but then people want it back. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | So tell them to fix the problem first. |
| 03:25 | <@Derakon> | And if they're incapable of fixing it themselves, then you ask for an account on the machine so you can try to fix it. |
| 03:26 | < Namegduf> | One fairly standard thing I've heard is reprovisioning the VPS entire and moving your old FS into /old |
| 03:26 | < Namegduf> | Or a similar path. |
| 03:26 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 03:26 | < Namegduf> | Because asking people to "fix" malware is just a bad, bad idea for practical administration |
| 03:26 | < Namegduf> | The majority of customers are idiots, and most compromised machines were run wrong in the first place. |
| 03:26 | < Namegduf> | Obviously, though, moving it into /old requires they mount your HDD. |
| 03:27 | < Namegduf> | And if they can mount your storage or otherwise access it, concerns about passwords are kinda moot. |
| 03:27 | < Namegduf> | So... my view is "To competently run things assumes that in that case, they have more access than they were taking anyway" |
| 03:28 | < Namegduf> | The password retaining part is pretty stupid, but I've seen much worse, often "email your password to prove you are who you are so we can do this request for you". Security mess, but not really a "get your hands out of my system mess", because they already need the same level of actual access or more. |
| 03:29 | < Namegduf> | Container-based VPSes do not have this problem, because you usually don't even need a password to step from the outside system into the container. |
| 03:29 | < Namegduf> | OpenVZ, it's a single command. |
| 03:30 | < Namegduf> | "vzctl enter <VPSID>" as root outside the VPSes. |
| 03:39 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
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| 13:32 | < beaver> | www.search2.net |
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| 18:21 | < Zed_> | vajazzle. |
| 18:21 | < jerith> | Quite. |
| 18:24 | < Zed_> | I've been mostly lurking, but I felt compelled. |
| 18:24 | < Zed_> | Anyone know how much work it'd take to learn enough directx to make a console app wrapper that can fullscreen? |
| 18:24 | < Zed_> | I've been hacking away at a codepage hack that will sort of kind of suffice, but it's irking me |
| 18:29 | | * jerith has successfully avoided Windows for the better part of a decade. |
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| 19:29 | < celticminstrel> | I know literally nothing about DirectX. Sorry. |
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| 21:25 | < McMartin> | Zed: I believe the DirectX system and the console system are in fact two completely different systems. |
| 21:25 | < McMartin> | I would suggest researching options to the OpenConsole function, though |
| 21:25 | < McMartin> | You're likely to need to set up the app so that it's not a "real" console app - that is, so that it doesn't inherit the console of its parent |
| 21:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Zed_: you can't just tell the enclosing terminal emulator to fullscreen? |
| 21:37 | <@Vornicus> | TF: cmd.exe and others do not, as far as I am aware, have fullscreen in them. |
| 21:37 | <@Vornicus> | I suspect that what he wants it to make one that does. |
| 21:46 | < McMartin> | I was actually expecting "maximize window and have more characters" |
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| 22:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | Vornicus: pretty sure cmd.exe respects alt-enter; I know it has some fullscreen mode because I've used it myself. |
| 22:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it does have fullscreen-with-more-characters; manually adjust rows/cols before you fullscreen. |
| 22:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | That said, cmd.exe is a piss poor terminal emulator but there's no shortage of better ones, and some of them even run on windows. |
| 22:04 | <@Vornicus> | ...oh hey, it does. |
| 22:05 | <@ToxicFrog> | Furthermore, Terminal Emulation Is Hard, and unless you're doing this as a personal exercise it's definitely a good idea to look for an existing one that does what you need rather than writing your own. |
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| 22:07 | < McMartin> | TF: Well, this is why I was suggesting OpenConsole, which I think lets you programmatically change all these options |
| 22:07 | | * Vornicus randomly uses Python's while/else bit. |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | while/else? |
| 22:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | semantics plz |
| 22:08 | <@Vornicus> | while condition: .... else: .... if the loop ends normally, the else clause gets executed. If, on the other hand, the loop is broken, the else clause gets skipped. |
| 22:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's surprising to me. |
| 22:11 | <@Vornicus> | In this case I am using it to implement prime factorization: the condition is n >= p*p; the loop tries n % p until it fails and then breaks, and then the else clause adds the remaining n to the list and then breaks the outer p-incrementing loop. |
| 22:13 | <@Vornicus> | http://docs.python.org/reference/compound_stmts.html#the-while-statement <--- both while and for have it. |
| 22:18 | < Alek> | http://xkcd.com/705/ |
| 22:18 | < Alek> | win. |
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| 22:50 | < Zed_> | ToxicFrog: terminal apps in general don't fullscreen natively in Vista or Win7 |
| 22:51 | < Zed_> | fullscreen console mode is denigrated in the Vista driverset. |
| 22:51 | < Zed_> | Like, say you wanted to open a command prompt or nethack or dos wp5.1 or whatEVER in win7/vista |
| 22:52 | < Zed_> | you couldn't fullscreen without some sort of wrapper. |
| 22:54 | < Zed_> | I'm hoping to figure out some way to pipe a console to directx and fullscreen. hell, I shouldn't even need to do that, if I can find a way to make a borderless fullscreen-sized window that uses a scaled version of the right font from terminal.ttf - actually, terminal.ttf doesn't have all the dos codepage |
| 22:54 | < Zed_> | which is another thing |
| 22:54 | < Zed_> | I need to find some way to rip a dos codepage out of a video card bios to a font |
| 22:54 | < Zed_> | fuck, SOMEONE should have done it |
| 22:54 | < Zed_> | I don't need super-scalable, I don't care if it's "ugly", it's what we're all used to, innit? |
| 22:55 | | * TheWatcher is still vaguely at a loss as to /why/ |
| 22:56 | < celticminstrel> | That while-else semantic seems backwards to me. |
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| 22:57 | < Zed_> | Watcher: Tell me about it. |
| 22:57 | < Zed_> | convo between me and someone: "Just hit alt-enter." |
| 22:57 | < Zed_> | "I have, it doesn't work." |
| 22:57 | < Zed_> | "Of course it does, you must have something depressing another key somewhere, or something." |
| 22:57 | < Zed_> | little did I know. |
| 23:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | The thing is, unless the app you're trying to fullscreen is really trivial, it's a lot uglier than "piping the console to your app" |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | In particular, none of the programs you listed will let you get away with that. |
| 23:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | At minimum you need unbuffered reads and writes and to be able to interpret movement and formatting escape codes. |
| 23:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which are, of course, not standard across terminal emulators (or real terminals), which is why stuff like libtermcap exists. |
| 23:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | You're much better off grabbing an existing terminal emulator and spending five minutes configuring it to your liking. |
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| 23:49 | < TheWatcher> | Zed_: no, my 'why' here is why you're trying to do this in the first place. |
| 23:51 | | * TheWatcher doesn't really understand why fullscreen is needed or even desirable for a command prompt program. But then he currently has over a dozen seperate programs, and 5 terminal windows open right now, so |
| 23:59 | | * Zed_ nods |
| 23:59 | < Zed_> | I see |
| 23:59 | < Zed_> | Uh, there's a lot of times where a fullscreen app is a LOT easier to work with |
| --- Log closed Fri Feb 26 00:00:04 2010 |