| --- Log opened Mon Dec 14 00:00:43 2009 |
| 00:18 | | * gnolam stabs OpenOffice's reference handling. |
| 00:18 | < Namegduf> | s/'s .*// |
| 00:18 | < Namegduf> | You should just use MS Office, really. |
| 00:19 | < Namegduf> | I love free and Free and all, but OpenOffice is quite... bad. |
| 00:23 | < gnolam> | Yeah. I would, if it was anywhere near sanely priced. |
| 00:23 | | * gnolam also stabs OpenOffice's lack of decent undo. |
| 00:24 | < McMartin> | s/undo/anything/~ |
| 00:25 | < celticminstrel> | What on earth does "s/'s .*//" and "s/undo/anything/~" mean? |
| 00:25 | < gnolam> | McMartin: Preaching to the choir. :P |
| 00:25 | < gnolam> | celticminstrel: substitute |
| 00:25 | < gnolam> | As used in e.g. sed (sort of). |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | find regexp "undo" and replace with "anything" |
| 00:26 | < celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 00:26 | < McMartin> | The ~ is the usual Internet suffix to indicate either a singsong voice or kidding on the square. |
| 00:26 | < celticminstrel> | I get it. |
| 00:26 | < celticminstrel> | Though, I did not know that about the tilde. |
| 00:28 | <@Vornicus> | Arg. I cannot convince LaTeX to do what I want. |
| 00:28 | | * Vornicus isn't yet very good at LaTeX, but this should be a bit easier. |
| 01:02 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has quit [[NS] Quit: Leaving] |
| 01:03 | | * gnolam stabs OpenOffice's lack of vector graphics import. |
| 01:03 | | Vornicus [vorn@ServerAdministrator.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 01:03 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by Reiver |
| 01:05 | < gnolam> | Seriously. How can they still not have that? |
| 01:06 | < celticminstrel> | Not have what, exactly? Are you talking about SVG import, or something else? |
| 01:07 | < gnolam> | SVG would be nice, yes. But any goddamned vector format would do. |
| 01:07 | < celticminstrel> | Like...? |
| 01:08 | < celticminstrel> | Do you mean things like Corel's and Adobe's formats? Or Office's vector graphics tools? Or ...? |
| 01:08 | < gnolam> | The aforementioned SVG. PS. EPS. PDF. AI. You name it. |
| 01:08 | < gnolam> | As it is, OpenOffice has its own crippled OpenOffice Draw, and that's it. |
| 01:09 | < celticminstrel> | Hm. You should take it up with them. |
| 01:09 | < celticminstrel> | File a feature request or something. |
| 01:09 | < gnolam> | People have been requesting it since at least 20-fucking-02. |
| 01:09 | < celticminstrel> | I see... |
| 01:10 | < gnolam> | Inserting external charts or diagrams is NOT an uncommon use case. |
| 01:10 | < celticminstrel> | You could try and see if you can implement it yourself, I suppose... |
| 01:10 | < gnolam> | But no. The moment you do that, you're up rasterization creek without a paddle. |
| 01:11 | | * gnolam slaps celticminstrel. |
| 01:11 | < gnolam> | "Implement it yourself" is very very seldom a reasonable answer to a wanted feature. |
| 01:12 | < celticminstrel> | I never said it would be a good idea... |
| 01:12 | < celticminstrel> | Just that it's a possibility. |
| 01:34 | < McMartin> | "Implement it yourself" is OSS-ese for "GFY". |
| 01:35 | < celticminstrel> | OSS? |
| 01:35 | < McMartin> | Open Source Software |
| 01:35 | < McMartin> | It's been really handy for me that all my major OSS projects have had iron-clad project remits that let us say "no" with reasonable authority |
| 01:35 | < celticminstrel> | Say "no" to what? |
| 01:35 | < McMartin> | Feature requests. |
| 01:35 | < celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 01:35 | < McMartin> | There's "you'll have to fork it", "we're not planning on that but would welcome patches", and "it's on the roadmap." |
| 01:35 | < celticminstrel> | What is a "project remit"? |
| 01:36 | | * McMartin checks wiktionary to make sure he's using the right word first |
| 01:36 | | GeekSoldier [Rob@Nightstar-e86e3e0d.ip.cablemo.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 01:36 | < McMartin> | Meanwhile, what I meant to imply was that our goals were set largely in stone largely in advance. |
| 01:37 | < celticminstrel> | Ah. |
| 01:37 | < celticminstrel> | I haven't really done that. |
| 01:37 | < McMartin> | Anyway, a remit is a set of responsibilities. |
| 01:38 | < McMartin> | The big one here is UQM, where we basically had "we need to replicate the PC and 3DO experiences" as an iron boundary for the first five releases. |
| 01:38 | < McMartin> | Kept things well-focused. |
| 01:38 | < McMartin> | Starting around 0.6 it slackened to "and have optional bits that can be disabled as needed, and refactor everything to make the code actually sanely moddable" |
| 01:39 | < celticminstrel> | Ooh, you worked on that? |
| 01:39 | < McMartin> | That didn't stop madmen from forking in the past, and some of their work has actually guided what's going on now |
| 01:39 | < McMartin> | I'm part of coredev there, actually. Was kind of surprised when you showed up here and there at the same time. |
| 01:39 | < celticminstrel> | Um... what? |
| 01:39 | < celticminstrel> | I showed up at UQM months ago. |
| 01:40 | < McMartin> | Yeah, as you may have noticed, that channel's pretty slow =) |
| 01:40 | < McMartin> | I don't /names it often and I don't have a list of names. |
| 01:40 | < celticminstrel> | I showed up here just a day or two ago. |
| 01:40 | < McMartin> | Yeah, I didn't make the connection until yesterday =) |
| 01:40 | < celticminstrel> | Though, perhaps you're referring to the #sc2 channel, which I only entered fairly recently? |
| 01:40 | < McMartin> | The #sc2 channel, yeah. |
| 01:41 | < McMartin> | Which is the one about the project itself. |
| 01:41 | < celticminstrel> | Oh yeah, you're an op there. |
| 01:41 | < celticminstrel> | I showed up at the forum first for UQM. |
| 01:41 | | * McMartin nods |
| 01:41 | < McMartin> | I don't have a lot of forum presence. |
| 01:41 | < McMartin> | Most of the "I need people to look at this" stuff for me happens on the wiki. |
| 01:42 | < McMartin> | (Or, because it's mostly invisible to end users these days, in private communication with the people effected.) |
| 01:42 | < McMartin> | I'm not as active at the moment, though; the other guys are having their spurt instead. |
| 01:47 | < McMartin> | Time to see if I can VPN through a public network with full encryption. |
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| 19:44 | | * AbuDhabi wonders if he installed DOS on a virtual machine, would it run faster than DOSBox? |
| 19:44 | <@jerith> | Probably not. |
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| 21:28 | < McMartin> | Tricky, actually. |
| 21:28 | < McMartin> | Programs that kick into protected mode will run so much faster they'll be unplayable |
| 21:28 | < McMartin> | But hardware and OS stuff will be dodgy at best. |
| 21:28 | < McMartin> | VBox in particular is pretty horrible at 16-bit code. |
| 21:28 | < McMartin> | DOSBox will have vastly superior sound and graphics virtual hardware, but it's actually emulating the x86 processor |
| 21:29 | < McMartin> | Most VMs run directly on the hardware as long as it's in 32-bit mode. |
| 21:29 | < AbuDhabi> | I see. |
| 21:31 | < McMartin> | DOSBox also permits scaling of the CPU speed, which is something most VMs don't do. |
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| 22:10 | | Derakon[gonk] [Derakon@Nightstar-d44d635e.ucsf.edu] has joined #code |
| 22:10 | | * Derakon[gonk] sighs. |
| 22:10 | < Derakon[gonk]> | global fr, fc, argsn, args |
| 22:10 | < Derakon[gonk]> | fr = sys._getframe(0) |
| 22:10 | < Derakon[gonk]> | fc = fr.f_code argsn = fc.co_varnames[:fc.co_argcount] |
| 22:10 | < Derakon[gonk]> | args = map(fr.f_locals.__getitem__, argsn) |
| 22:11 | < McMartin> | :smith: |
| 22:11 | < McMartin> | I think you need less :gonk: and more :black101:. |
| 22:11 | < Derakon[gonk]> | I don't recognize them all by name. |
| 22:11 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Is :black101: the barbarian with an axe? |
| 22:11 | < McMartin> | :smith: is the very pitiable sad face. |
| 22:11 | < McMartin> | Yes. |
| 22:12 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Hm, not remembering :smith:. |
| 22:13 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Anyway, this is one of three calls to _getframe in the microscope code proper (there's another 9 in the "Priithon" library Sebastian wrote...but I'm hopeful I can just cauterize the entire thing and kick it to somewhere safe. Like, say, Earth's molten core.) |
| 22:16 | < Derakon[gonk]> | AFAICT that code snippet saves the arguments passed to the function so that they can be used to restore camera settings later. |
| 22:23 | | * TheWatcher eyes Dera |
| 22:23 | <@TheWatcher> | No, not the core. If you do that... well, 2012, you know? ;) |
| 22:24 | <@TheWatcher> | Who needs neutrino handwaving, when you have sebastian's code... |
| 22:24 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Well, I thought about booting it into deep space or the Sun, and those both have similar problems. |
| 22:24 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Maybe I should hand it off to the SCP foundation. |
| 22:25 | | * Derakon[gonk] throws together a quick test script. "Yep, all that code snippet does is capture the arguments to the current function." |
| 22:26 | < Derakon[gonk]> | In this case, he could have replaced that snippet with [ny, y0, bin, rotOn] |
| 22:26 | < Derakon[gonk]> | That's all it does. |
| 22:26 | < Derakon[gonk]> | I mean, this isn't just a travesty of programming. It's a gratuitous travesty. |
| 22:26 | | * TheWatcher patpats Dera |
| 22:27 | <@TheWatcher> | Also, and randomly, thank gods for Cygwin. |
| 22:36 | < Derakon[gonk]> | For making you less unhappy about being stuck on Windows? |
| 22:37 | | * Vornicus-Latens pokes at LaTeX. |
| 22:37 | < McMartin> | I find that Cygwin makes me more unhappy about that, while MinGW takes the pain away much more reliably. |
| 22:38 | | * gnolam joins in Vornicus's poking, and also pokes LyX's FTP. |
| 22:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Dera: yeah. I'm trying to automate a lot of my Thief 2 custom resource processes - bash scripts, perl scripts, that sort of thing. |
| 22:40 | < McMartin> | Aha. |
| 22:40 | < McMartin> | Were it not for the bash, I'd recommend ActivePerl, which is quite solid and has usable Explorer integration |
| 22:41 | <@TheWatcher> | (I also use the X server too, and since I need that I may as well use the rest) |
| 22:42 | <@TheWatcher> | (also, for no reason I can find, the native build of win32 emacs falls over as soon as it displays its window, while the cygwin version works nicely) |
| 22:44 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I'm kind of new at this so this is probably an easy question |
| 22:44 | | * gnolam discovers that a frightening number of people haven't seen the masterpiece that is "Sorting Out Sorting". |
| 22:46 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I'm looking to do several things. |
| 22:56 | <@Vornicus-Latens> | I'm looking to have a hanging indent that works properly - I want the first line completely unindented, and the second and subsequent lines indented 1/8". Then I want subproblems to be indented 3/8" from the original left edge, and solutions to be indented 3/8" from the problem/subproblem indentation on the left. |
| 23:12 | < AbuDhabi> | gnolam: I'm watching the first part now. It's pretty awesome. I've never seen sorting algorithms presented simply enough to be grokked on the first try. |
| 23:14 | < Derakon[gonk]> | I should've realized that cleaning up the code style of the sebH module (where "H" stands for "helpfull" [sic]) would involve a lot of changes to other modules. |
| 23:15 | | * Derakon[gonk] shunts a half-dozen functions that do little aside from invoke functions in the sebC module, over to the sebC module. |
| 23:16 | < AbuDhabi> | "Bubblesort - its fame exceeds its virtues." |
| 23:16 | < gnolam> | AbuDhabi: Are you watching the original or a sped up version? :) |
| 23:17 | < AbuDhabi> | Original now. The crack version is too fast for me. |
| 23:17 | < gnolam> | Ah, so you're getting the full half hour! |
| 23:17 | < McMartin> | What does "C" stand for in sebC? |
| 23:18 | < gnolam> | To quote someone on filmtipset.se: |
| 23:18 | < gnolam> | (Freely translated) "Sorting Out Sorting has it all; drama, intrigue and a great soundtrack. The finale when they compete against each other is dreadfully exciting. That the movie's "good guy" wins on luck rather than skill is a bit lame, but still. Its rating on Imdb - the same as Casablanca, Citizen Kane and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest - speaks for itself." |
| 23:18 | | * Derakon[gonk] eyes this item from the DF dev goals: "# PowerGoal58, WHAT WERE WE THINKING, (Future): You are sent to rescue the prince and princess, who have been captured by the evil wizard. You uncover the sinister and disgusting plot to breed the siblings to form an evil army of mutants." |
| 23:18 | < McMartin> | >_< |
| 23:18 | < McMartin> | At both gnolam and Derakon |
| 23:18 | < McMartin> | gnolam: Also, =( at qsort being the good guy over merge |
| 23:19 | < gnolam> | Derakon: I guess the wizard really wants a banjo proficient army. |
| 23:19 | < Derakon[gonk]> | I find it somewhat disturbing that inbreeding is considered to be so much worse than slavery. |
| 23:19 | < McMartin> | You're enslaving filthy foreigners, for the most part |
| 23:19 | < gnolam> | Now you've spoiled the ending for Anno!~ |
| 23:19 | < Derakon[gonk]> | (In that lots of players would love to have slavery, and lots of players are speaking out against inbreeding) |
| 23:19 | < McMartin> | Also, Civ IV, Slavery and Emancipation are the Two True Civics. |
| 23:19 | < McMartin> | Generally in order~ |
| 23:20 | < McMartin> | Slavery is the only way to rush production until the endgame |
| 23:21 | | * McMartin prepares to burn 64-bit LiveCDs of Fedora and Ubuntu. |
| 23:21 | < McMartin> | Time to see which ones can see Iodine's monitor. |
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| 23:38 | | * Derakon[gonk] ponders this bit of code. |
| 23:38 | < Derakon[gonk]> | He's passing an argument that is a string, which includes an initial key, followed by some code to run. For example, "t import seb as X; X.stageLimit_xy0_ctrl = x\t" |
| 23:39 | < Derakon[gonk]> | The "t" indicates that a text control field should be created, you see. |
| 23:39 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Why didn't he think to make the key a separate argument? |
| 23:41 | < AbuDhabi> | "If you're getting bored, let this be a lesson about n-squared algorithms." |
| 23:41 | < Derakon[gonk]> | Or about the PDP-11~ |
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| 23:43 | < McMartin> | Oh hey, this work machine is 64-bit capable after all |
| 23:44 | | AbuDhabi [annodomini@Nightstar-cfecbb2c.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [[NS] Quit: Gnn.] |
| 23:55 | < ToxicFrog> | Vornicus-Latens: re LaTeX: don't know, something based on a list environment might be useful here but my LaTeX mojo is insufficient. |
| 23:55 | < ToxicFrog> | I have, however, found #latex on Freenode to be helpful more often than not. |
| --- Log closed Tue Dec 15 00:00:36 2009 |