| --- Log opened Tue Sep 01 00:00:12 2009 |
| 00:09 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:16 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:49 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 00:50 | | Orthia is now known as Reivthia |
| 01:06 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29548.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: KAA NAMAH FHTAGHN CTHULHU!!!] |
| 01:24 | <@Derakon> | Mmyes? |
| 01:24 | < Reivthia> | Okay. So what's the default right click? |
| 01:25 | <@Derakon> | Select. |
| 01:26 | < Reivthia> | hm. |
| 01:26 | < Vornicus> | I'm gonna go ahead and say "that sounds wrong" right off the bat. Left-click selects, right-click acts. |
| 01:26 | < Reivthia> | Apparently Blender has it the opposite! Left click is gestures. |
| 01:26 | <@Derakon> | Brother, if you want to complain about Blender's UI, you'd better have a lot of spare time. |
| 01:26 | < Reivthia> | (Is it possible to swap them so I go less insane, or is left click really the most heavily used?) |
| 01:27 | < Vornicus> | Der: I have a lot of spare time. |
| 01:27 | < Reivthia> | Then come join me in the Grand Blenderfication Projeckt of 2009! |
| 01:27 | < Reivthia> | Featuring our guest vict^H^H^H^Hteacher, Derakon! |
| 01:27 | | * Derakon facepalms. |
| 01:28 | <@Derakon> | I don't think the Blender UI is particularly customizable, but then again I never really bothered to find out. |
| 01:28 | < Reivthia> | Fair enough. I'll leave things as defaults, if only so what you tell me works~ |
| 01:28 | <@Derakon> | I tend to default to adapting to the existing UI rather than try to tweak it to be like it Should Be. |
| 01:28 | | * Derakon nods. |
| 01:28 | < Reivthia> | Okay. So: |
| 01:29 | < Reivthia> | How do I get a multipane window? I almost invaribly have Plan, Front, Side and Perspective sitting on the screen when I work, so I can keep the picture in my head as I fiddle. |
| 01:29 | <@Derakon> | Right-click on the edge of the window, where there's a black line. |
| 01:29 | <@Derakon> | You'll get the option to split the window. |
| 01:29 | <@Derakon> | Each of the windows can then be set to display whatever. |
| 01:30 | <@Derakon> | Edge -> top or bottom of the 3D view. |
| 01:30 | <@Derakon> | Not the left or right edges. |
| 01:31 | < Reivthia> | Excelent. |
| 01:32 | < Reivthia> | Am I likely to need 'multires'? It's a lot of screenspace for a single button. |
| 01:32 | <@Derakon> | That's sculpt mode. I don't personally use it. |
| 01:32 | <@Derakon> | It tends to require a lot of processing power. |
| 01:33 | < Reivthia> | How, in a 3D window, do I drag around to look at things? |
| 01:33 | < Reivthia> | Shifting the camera angle, etc |
| 01:33 | < Vornicus> | What is it you're building anyway? |
| 01:33 | < Reivthia> | Vornicus: I plan to build ... a spaceship. |
| 01:33 | < Reivthia> | But first, I plan to build a house. |
| 01:33 | <@Derakon> | I generally use the numpad to change view. '.' makes the view pivot be the selected object; 2468 to rotate, shift+2468 to pan. |
| 01:34 | < Reivthia> | The infamous house that every budding artist draws at age 4. |
| 01:34 | < Vornicus> | ...can I recommend to you Google Sketchup? |
| 01:34 | < Reivthia> | :) |
| 01:34 | <@Derakon> | (plus/minus to zoom in/out) |
| 01:34 | < Reivthia> | Vornicus: Can I reccomend to you getting hold of whoever owns the archives for r3v3ng.net so I can get my origional sketch back? ;_; |
| 01:34 | < Reivthia> | (What is Google Sketchup and why do I want it) |
| 01:37 | < Reivthia> | ... how do I make a new cube? |
| 01:39 | < Vornicus> | Google Sketchup is a 3d drawing program specifically built for architecture. |
| 01:39 | < Vornicus> | It is very simple to use. |
| 01:39 | < Reivthia> | Cute. Can it generate models? |
| 01:40 | < Vornicus> | Yes; though I don't know if it has the format you need! |
| 01:40 | < Reivthia> | Interesting. |
| 01:40 | < Reivthia> | I need to output to .X and .3ds, IIRC |
| 01:41 | < Reivthia> | hrn |
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| 01:45 | <@Derakon> | To my knowledge, SketchUp doesn't do texturing. |
| 01:46 | < Vornicus> | It does, but it's not great. |
| 01:48 | < Orthia> | Is there any particular reason for the reccomendation, Vorn? I don't mind, but am entirely curious. |
| 01:48 | <@Derakon> | Vorn is deeply offended by bad UIs, in my experience~ |
| 01:48 | < Orthia> | How do we know that Sketchup is any better~ |
| 01:48 | < Vornicus> | I also saw the results gnolam had with it the other day, and they were impressive. |
| 01:49 | < Orthia> | (I've yet to find any modeling program with an intuitive, easy-to-use-at-advanced-levels interface.) |
| 01:50 | < Vornicus> | Sketchup I find thinks a lot like me - it shows me for instance what it's snapping objects to, it lets me /type in the measurement I want as I'm drawing the object/ |
| 01:56 | < Orthia> | Hm. Nice. |
| 01:56 | < Orthia> | Oh! That's right. |
| 01:56 | < Orthia> | Blender: Does it do snapping? |
| 01:56 | < Orthia> | And how do I take a cube and make it a trapezium? |
| 01:57 | <@Derakon> | Blender does snap. Shift-s. |
| 01:57 | <@Derakon> | And to trapeziumize a cube, select it, then hit tab to enter edit mode. |
| 01:57 | <@Derakon> | And now you can muck around with the vertices, edges, or faces directly. |
| 01:58 | <@gnolam> | Vornicus: Thank you. :) |
| 01:58 | < Orthia> | Okay then. hm. |
| 01:58 | < Orthia> | Gnolam: May I see of what Vornicus speaks? |
| 01:59 | <@Derakon> | In edit mode, there's a set of four buttons. One looks like four dots, another like two parallel lines, a third like a triangle, and a fourth like a cube. |
| 01:59 | < Orthia> | Derakon: How much control do I have over Blenders grid? |
| 01:59 | <@Derakon> | Click on the first three to switch between vertex/edge/face selection. |
| 01:59 | <@Derakon> | Reiv: View menu -> View Properties, and you can change the grid spacing and number of lines shown. |
| 01:59 | < Orthia> | I tend to work with 'big squares, little squares, and snapping halfway between each little grid'. |
| 02:00 | <@gnolam> | Orthia: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gnolam/temp/intensimeter_28_probe.png , http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gnolam/temp/intensimeter_28_probe_2.png |
| 02:00 | <@gnolam> | That was done in a day with /literally/ zero experience of Sketchup, and without reading the manual. |
| 02:01 | < Orthia> | ... very nice. |
| 02:01 | <@gnolam> | (I did google for some specific issues, but that was pretty rare) |
| 02:01 | < Orthia> | How's it at manipulating 3D Models? |
| 02:02 | < Orthia> | I ask 'cuz I've seen the odd thing that does it 'okay, but not that well when you start messing with booleans and stuff' |
| 02:02 | < Orthia> | And I plan to be wrestling with meshes at some point. |
| 02:03 | < Vornicus> | It isn't built for making skeletal models. |
| 02:03 | <@gnolam> | You mean constructive geometry stuff? |
| 02:03 | < Orthia> | Yeah. |
| 02:03 | < Orthia> | I suspect I'll be doing a lot of that. |
| 02:04 | <@gnolam> | Ah. Not that good. |
| 02:06 | <@gnolam> | Sketchup is like a bastard child of Wings3d and a CAD program. |
| 02:06 | <@Derakon> | I'll note that Blender is terrible at CSG. |
| 02:06 | < Vornicus> | It's designed mostly for architecture, so its tools for creating spaces are great -- however, I don't know if it even /has/ an animation system. |
| 02:07 | < Vornicus> | I count Sketchup as quite good at CSG. |
| 02:07 | < Orthia> | ... a bastard child of Wings3d and CAD |
| 02:07 | | * Orthia die happy |
| 02:07 | < Orthia> | Half my work as a kid was in a CAD program (aka the only graphics tool other than Paint on the whole computer~) |
| 02:08 | <@gnolam> | It has an animation system, but... again, it's not the tool for the job. It's made for static geometry, and it does architecture great, exact models of man-made objects good and other things... not so good. |
| 02:08 | < Orthia> | It was DOS. It drew everything green because I never figured out how to change the color. |
| 02:08 | < Orthia> | CSG? |
| 02:08 | <@gnolam> | Constructive Solid Geometry. |
| 02:08 | < Orthia> | Ah. |
| 02:09 | <@Derakon> | A.k.a. doing union, intersection, and difference with objects. |
| 02:09 | <@gnolam> | Or, in simpler terms, "make advanced shapes by combining primitive ones". |
| 02:09 | < Orthia> | Also: Hrn. The real trick will be getting .X files imported and exported. 3dsMax needs a special tool... *goes hunting on the interwebs* |
| 02:11 | < Orthia> | ... all I get are forum threads claiming Blender can do it. Good sign or bad? >_> |
| 02:11 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 02:11 | <@Derakon> | Well, if you can import from SketchUp into Blender, then your problem should be solved, no? |
| 02:12 | < Orthia> | More trying to figure out how cleanly *blender* manages it. |
| 02:12 | < Orthia> | Does Blender allow you to group stuff, idly? |
| 02:12 | <@Derakon> | The .x format is pretty standard, AIUI. |
| 02:12 | <@Derakon> | Sure does. |
| 02:12 | < Orthia> | Oh, good. |
| 02:13 | <@Derakon> | Ctrl-G to group, shift-G to select groups. Or ctrl-P to parent one object to another. |
| 02:13 | <@Derakon> | (Child objects inherit the transformations of their parents) |
| 02:14 | <@Derakon> | Alt-P to clear parents, BTW. |
| 02:16 | < Orthia> | Two things: |
| 02:16 | < Orthia> | 1) How the goonies do I use the tab interface? I've got some points, and I can drag 'em around with right click, but they never stay where I put them. |
| 02:17 | <@Derakon> | Hit enter when you're done moving them. |
| 02:17 | < Orthia> | 2) How do I rotate a 3D view so I can see what I'm doing better? |
| 02:17 | < Orthia> | ... I can't use the mouse? |
| 02:17 | <@Derakon> | Use the numpad to rotate the view. |
| 02:17 | <@Derakon> | Oh, leftclick finalizes transforms too. |
| 02:17 | < Orthia> | Ah! That's vastly less painful. |
| 02:17 | | * Orthia was just thinking 'but... but... enter is all the way over there ;_;' |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | Sorry, I was thinking of numeric transforms. When you're in transform mode, instead of using the mouse you can type a number. |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | You can also type x, y, or z to limit the transform to that axis. |
| 02:18 | <@Derakon> | Or X, Y, or Z to make the transform be only in the other two axes. |
| 02:19 | < Orthia> | ... that's handy to know. |
| 02:19 | < Orthia> | What is the funny crosshair with the red+white circle? |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | I thought so, so I mentioned it. :) |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | That's the cursor. |
| 02:19 | < Orthia> | Why does it only sit where I click? |
| 02:19 | <@Derakon> | You can snap objects to its location, or use it as a pivot for transforms. |
| 02:20 | <@Derakon> | Other things also work relative to the cursor, like the Spin and Spin Dup buttons. |
| 02:20 | < Orthia> | Oh. Can I make that snap to grid too? |
| 02:20 | <@Derakon> | (Those also work relative to the view, which is kinda weird) |
| 02:20 | <@Derakon> | Um...dunno, but you can set its position directly from the View Properties pane. |
| 02:20 | < Orthia> | (Nah, btdt - just make sure you're using the right view, and not a perspective one~) |
| 02:20 | < Orthia> | Okay. |
| 02:21 | <@Derakon> | Oh, yeah, numpad 5 switches between perspective and orthographic views. |
| 02:22 | < Orthia> | Okay. |
| 02:24 | < Orthia> | So: How do I make a second cube to keep my first cube company? |
| 02:24 | <@Derakon> | Spacebar while the mouse is over the 3D view. |
| 02:25 | < Orthia> | Can I select multiple points for editing at once? |
| 02:26 | <@Derakon> | Shift-rightclick. |
| 02:26 | < Orthia> | Oh, good. |
| 02:26 | <@Derakon> | Or ctrl-leftclick-drag. |
| 02:27 | < Orthia> | How do I scale a plane? I wanna make something narrow at the top while maintaining symmetry. |
| 02:27 | <@Derakon> | For symmetry, you really should use a mirror modifier on the object. |
| 02:27 | <@Derakon> | But scaling is done by hitting s, or by doing an "in and out" mouse gesture. |
| 02:28 | < Orthia> | Perfect. |
| 02:28 | < Orthia> | Now, how do I subtract one cube from the other? |
| 02:29 | <@Derakon> | That's CSG, and Blender's terrible at it. |
| 02:29 | < Orthia> | ... what |
| 02:29 | <@Derakon> | I mean, it exists, and sometimes it generates usable results, but if you want to use Blender I'd suggest learning how to model what you want directly. |
| 02:29 | < Orthia> | butbutbut |
| 02:29 | <@Derakon> | Go ahead and give it a shot, though; select the two cubes, then mouse over the 3D view and hit W. |
| 02:30 | <@Derakon> | For something like cubes intersecting other cubes it should generally work decently. |
| 02:30 | <@Derakon> | If you wanted to subtract from, say, a cylinder, though? Don't think it'd work well. |
| 02:31 | | * Derakon does a quick test of subtracting a cube from a cylinder, actually gets acceptable results. |
| 02:31 | < Orthia> | Well. That was in fact my primary method of carving turret barbettes out of the cylindrical hulls... |
| 02:31 | <@Derakon> | Well, just don't expect it to always work. |
| 02:32 | < Vornicus> | Reiver: Sketchup does very well with CSG - you just draw the two shapes, select teh surfaces you want to delete, and hit "delete" |
| 02:32 | < Orthia> | My plan was thus: Create the curve that defined the hull shape. Boolean out any wedges or indentations that the design required. Build on top of those the normal way. |
| 02:33 | < Orthia> | Also: Why is it complaining I have only one mesh? I made two cubes, didn't I? ;_; |
| 02:33 | <@Derakon> | You created the second cube while in edit mode, didn't you? |
| 02:33 | < Orthia> | ... maybe >_> |
| 02:33 | <@Derakon> | You can only subtract objects from each other, not contiguous meshes. But you can split the two cubes into separate objects. |
| 02:33 | < Orthia> | Okay. How? |
| 02:34 | < Orthia> | Er, sorry. Create the curve, lathe it to a solid !cylinder, then boolean out. Which is why doing the first part by hand would have me running screaming. |
| 02:34 | <@Derakon> | Switch to edit mode, select one of the cubes (select any part of it, then ctrl-L to select linked components), then ctrl-P. |
| 02:38 | < Orthia> | Everything worked until ctrl+P. Didn't appear to do anything? |
| 02:38 | <@Derakon> | D'oh, just p. |
| 02:42 | < Orthia> | what the shit |
| 02:42 | < Orthia> | Okay, then. |
| 02:42 | < Orthia> | How do I get Box A to subtract from Box B? |
| 02:42 | <@Derakon> | Select them in a different order. |
| 02:42 | | Orthia is now known as Reivthia |
| 02:43 | <@Derakon> | The currently active object is the last one you select; it has a bright pink outline and may be treated differently for actions that involve multiple objects. |
| 02:43 | <@Derakon> | (As opposed to a normal pink outline). |
| 02:43 | | * Reivthia sees all this pink as white anyway, so |
| 02:43 | <@Derakon> | For example, when parenting objects, the last object becomes the parent and the others are the children. |
| 02:43 | | * Reivthia does note this was the same problem he had with the Shidden, who ended up with pink turrets~ |
| 02:43 | <@Derakon> | Whups. |
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| 15:28 | | * TheWatcher stabstabs XML::Simple |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | Damned thing does exactly what I want except that it insists on converting any and all <, >. etc in the input into literal < >. |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | So I need to go in and change all the fuckers back to <, >, etc, and then fix up the tags I actually want to allow through |
| 15:29 | <@TheWatcher> | ARGH |
| 15:30 | <@TheWatcher> | Waste of bloody processor time, damnit |
| 15:32 | < Namegduf> | XML Writer overkill? |
| 15:32 | < Namegduf> | Might be easier to just switch module. |
| 15:36 | <@TheWatcher> | It's the reader I need - I'm using XML::Simple::XMLin() to get a nice DOM tree in a hash. I may have to go ip to XML::LibXML >.< |
| 15:36 | <@TheWatcher> | s/ip/up/ |
| 15:37 | < Namegduf> | Ow. |
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| 16:22 | < ilf_code> | Can I get a voice? I need some help with my java homework, and I'd like to link to the paste of what I have so far. |
| 16:25 | | mode/#code [+v ilf_code] by gnolam |
| 16:25 | <+ilf_code> | Thank you. Ahem. http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/16 |
| 16:25 | <+ilf_code> | errors according to eclipse are in line 6, and every line iwth a print or println function. |
| 16:26 | <+ilf_code> | The latters being undefined for the tyope File, and the error in line 6 is that the constructor File(file) is undefined. |
| 16:26 | <@TheWatcher> | Yeah, 6 you should only need 'Scanner input = new Scanner(universe);' I believe (as universe is already a File) |
| 16:26 | <+ilf_code> | Ah, okay. |
| 16:27 | <+ilf_code> | That seems to work. Now there's the fiddly matter of the prints and printlns... |
| 16:28 | <@TheWatcher> | and you need a PrintStream for the prints |
| 16:28 | <@TheWatcher> | so make universeOutput = new PrintStream(new File("universe2.txt")) |
| 16:29 | <@TheWatcher> | (you'll need to import java.io.PrintStream, or just import java.io.*) |
| 16:31 | <@TheWatcher> | (http://pastebin.starforge.co.uk/17 - that should work, I think, I'm still in perl mode so...) |
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| 16:33 | <+ilf_code> | Hmm. It gives a file not found exception for universe.txt and universe2.txt |
| 16:33 | <+ilf_code> | (And so does what I had, which is... excactly the same as yours, so.) |
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| 16:39 | <+ilf_code> | ... ah, there it goes. |
| 16:39 | | * ilf_code was one directory to far up with his .txt file. |
| 16:40 | <+ilf_code> | Thanks, TW |
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| --- Log closed Tue Sep 01 18:31:05 2009 |
| --- Log opened Tue Sep 01 18:31:10 2009 |
| 18:31 | | TheWatcher [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
| 18:31 | | Irssi: #code: Total of 18 nicks [13 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 5 normal] |
| 18:31 | | mode/#code [+o TheWatcher] by ChanServ |
| 18:31 | | Irssi: Join to #code was synced in 52 secs |
| 19:15 | | Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@Nightstar-3964.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #code |
| 21:14 | | * gnolam realizes why "UV mapper" can be a full-time job. |
| 22:11 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ? |
| 22:16 | <@AnnoDomini> | 100 hammerstrikes for a double murder. |
| 22:17 | <@AnnoDomini> | http://i29.tinypic.com/2vwab5v.jpg |
| 22:31 | <@gnolam> | Rhamphoryncus: It's awful, tedious work. |
| 22:35 | <@jerith> | Dwarves can murder each other? |
| 22:36 | <@jerith> | Was this during a tantrum or something? |
| 22:40 | <@AnnoDomini> | Yes. |
| 22:40 | <@gnolam> | But now it should be over: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~gnolam/temp/intensimeter_28_probe_textured.png |
| 22:40 | <@AnnoDomini> | He *is* Ultra-Mighty... mostly because he has Accomplished in all social skills. |
| 23:40 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-8573.midstate.ip.cablemo.net] has joined #code |
| 23:40 | | mode/#code [+o GeekSoldier] by ChanServ |
| --- Log closed Wed Sep 02 00:00:08 2009 |