| --- Log opened Tue Aug 25 00:00:32 2009 |
| 00:05 | | * AnnoDomini just had an epic battle with a demon in DFAM. Thanks to both sides using overpowered ranged abilities, it turned into a melee cripple fight. |
| 00:05 | <@AnnoDomini> | I lost because the demon's minions showed up and one of them happened to have a crossbow. It didn't take long for a stray bolt to find my head. |
| 00:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | My legs, arms, most of my joints, and pretty much every organ was damaged somehow, most beyond use. I couldn't use my shield or crossbow anymore, I resorted to throwing the bolts I had - I think I did it with my teeth or something. :D |
| 00:07 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29644.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: The body is alive, but the eyes are dead.] |
| 00:08 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 00:10 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 00:13 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Derakon: btw, just what does procedural generation mean anyway? Haven't we been doing map generation and whatnot for forever? |
| 00:13 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, since Rogue at least. |
| 00:14 | <@Derakon> | Procedural generation just means the computer is making content for you. |
| 00:15 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hrm. My big reference point is Spore, but I'm not sure how much it really does |
| 00:16 | <@Derakon> | Well, in Spore's case it's procedurally generating the behaviors of the creatures based on the structures you provide. |
| 00:16 | <@Derakon> | I think it also does some procedural texturing. |
| 00:16 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My impression is that it just picks between a few predetermined behaviours, based on their parameters |
| 00:17 | <@Derakon> | Mm. I haven't interacted with it much. |
| 00:17 | <@Derakon> | Of course, Spore is also procedurally generating all the planets. |
| 00:17 | < Rhamphoryncus> | So a dance is affected by the length of the legs, rather than being entirely hardcoded |
| 00:18 | < Rhamphoryncus> | that's just bog standard random map generation |
| 00:20 | <@Vornicus> | Procedural generation covers a wide variety of techniques, for a wide variety of problems. |
| 00:20 | < Rhamphoryncus> | spore doesn't generate creatures either. It has a few hardcoded ones and will (if allowed) download from the server |
| 00:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah, I'm just annoyed that it's becoming a buzzword for things we already did |
| 00:21 | <@McMartin> | It's something we stopped doing, and are starting up again. |
| 00:21 | < Rhamphoryncus> | ah, that I didn't know |
| 00:21 | <@Derakon> | I don't think it's a buzzword any more than, say, "functional programming" is a buzzword |
| 00:22 | <@Vornicus> | Except for some very specific cases - roguelikes including Diablo kept the flame alive. |
| 00:22 | <@Derakon> | But yeah, procedural content generation used to be the only way to get a large amount of content into your game because of storage constraints. |
| 00:22 | <@McMartin> | Procedural content was extremely common until CD-ROMs became commonplace, at which point they started dumping data in wholesale |
| 00:22 | <@Derakon> | These days it's mostly used to extend game longevity. |
| 00:22 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Yeah, the designers can be creative if they hardcode maps |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | There's also deterministic generation, which gives you both. Star Control 2 does that |
| 00:23 | <@Derakon> | I'm going for procedural content generation in Jetblade because if I didn't, I'd just be making Yet Another Platforming Game. |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | The planets are "randomly generated" but it's a pseudorandom sequence based on the location and properties of the star |
| 00:23 | < Rhamphoryncus> | McMartin: standard seed values? |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | And the stars are designed |
| 00:23 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 00:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | hmm that's more like lazy generation of the galaxy |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | Likewise, the planet surfaces |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | This lets you have several thousand explorable planets on four floppies, though |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | And yeah, "lazy generation" is workable too |
| 00:24 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Oh, yeah, and if you don't need to save any of those details you can delete them and regenerate later |
| 00:24 | <@McMartin> | Yup |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | Unfortunately, you do need to save some of it - how heavily you've mined/explored the planets |
| 00:25 | <@McMartin> | That can be compresse though, and if you're playing thoroughly, it compresses well. |
| 00:25 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 00:27 | < Rhamphoryncus> | Derakon: one of my peeves in spore is that, although it tweaks a dance for the length of your legs, it doesn't try to do any realistic physics. It'd be so much nicer if it went through a physics simulation when the creature is designed, then saved the results to know how it should actually move |
| 00:28 | <@Derakon> | Rhamphoryncus: that sounds hard. |
| 00:29 | <@Derakon> | Like, would result in multiple published papers in robotics hard. |
| 00:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | heh |
| 00:29 | < Rhamphoryncus> | doesn't seem that hard to me.. perhaps I can visualize it too easily ;) |
| 00:30 | <@McMartin> | You've got a massively-parallel processor doing your visualization and kinesthesia simulation. |
| 00:30 | <@Vornicus> | A massively-parallel processor built /specifically for/ visualization and kinesthesia simulation, doing this. |
| 00:30 | < Rhamphoryncus> | fwiw, I just mean to take the dance animation and avoid sticking one leg through another |
| 00:33 | <@Vornicus> | But yeah, we're talking the kind of stuff that could fill a journal for ten years, if you want to make critter dances look sensible. |
| 00:34 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I s'pose |
| 00:34 | <@Derakon> | Also, Rhamph: you work in kinaesthesia? |
| 00:35 | | * Rhamphoryncus googles >.> |
| 00:37 | <@Vornicus> | We'll take that as a No. |
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| 00:37 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I've heard the term before, just wanted a proper definition |
| 00:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But no, no specific knowledge of the field |
| 00:38 | < Rhamphoryncus> | My brain's just good at visuospatial crap |
| 00:39 | <@Derakon> | ...oh, that was your brain that McM was referring to. Gotcha. |
| 00:39 | < Rhamphoryncus> | oh, heh, yeah |
| 00:40 | <@Vornicus> | The current Best We Have is a quadruped that moves like a dog when you try to push it over... but walks at an impressive half a mile and hour and is loud loud loud. |
| 00:40 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I'm actually unusually good at visuospatial, which is why it seems so odd to me that it's hard to do that sort of robotics |
| 00:41 | < Rhamphoryncus> | But we don't have any viable actuators, so even a good design could not be implemented |
| 00:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | One of these days I should try to build myself a robot |
| 01:17 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: Surely deterministic generation actually counts as "dumping data in", just at an *extreme* compression ratio? Like within a constant factor of the levels' Kolmogorov complexity. :) |
| 01:19 | <@McMartin> | Not what I meant and you know it. =P |
| 01:22 | <@MyCatVerbs> | But it's technically correct. |
| 01:23 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Which is, well, not always the best kind of correct, but usually the most fun. =D |
| 01:44 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I actually think that's the point. Generating a level means your kolmogorov complexity is rather low, as level generation is limited to the combinations you allow. In contrast, designed levels allow arbitrarily large complexity, especially considering changes to the engine itself to allow them |
| 01:45 | <@Derakon> | Certainly it takes a lot more work to make an artful generated level than it does to make an artful designed level. |
| 01:45 | <@Derakon> | But the work you spend on procedural generation pays itself off over and over again. It's a bit like spending the time to make a 3D model instead of drawing your frames of animation directly. |
| 01:45 | <@McMartin> | (In other news, Spelunky's at 0.99.9B) |
| 01:50 | <@Vornicus> | Diablo does a rather good job. |
| 01:50 | <@Derakon> | Diablo largely does that by having a huge number of set pieces. |
| 01:51 | <@Derakon> | It doesn't hurt that Blizzard's art department is enormous. |
| 01:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | yeah |
| 01:59 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I wonder if diablo works in wine. I never did play through it |
| 02:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | The net says yes. |
| 02:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | As does my own experience, although I never got netplay to work. |
| 02:02 | <@ToxicFrog> | (Diablo II also works.) |
| 02:14 | | gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-1382.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Z?] |
| 03:01 | < Rhamphoryncus> | I did play diablo 2 via wine for a while |
| 03:01 | < Alek> | funkily: neither 1 nor 2 installs from CD on this XP machine. |
| 03:01 | < Alek> | not even with compatibility. |
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| 04:25 | <@Consul> | Anyone here know anything about the Caviar Black drives issues with being in RAID arrays? |
| 04:25 | <@Consul> | I'm looking to set up three 1TB drives in a RAID 5. |
| 04:25 | <@Consul> | I guess the Seagate's have been having some serious firmware issues. |
| 04:26 | <@Consul> | According to what I can find, the Caviars have some sort of data protection mode that can cause the drive to get dropped from the array, which then crashes. |
| 04:27 | <@Consul> | They have a RAID edition of the same drives which remedies this, but that doubles the cost of the drive. |
| 04:27 | <@Consul> | Thus making a RAID into a RAED. |
| 06:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | o.O |
| 06:03 | | Namegduf [~namegduf@Nightstar-7714.148.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 06:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | That doesn't make any sense |
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| 06:09 | <@SmithKurosaki> | RAED? |
| 06:09 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Also, that sounds really dumb |
| 06:09 | <@Vornicus> | Redundant Array of Expensive (as opposed to Inexpensive) Disks. |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Research indicates that the reported issues are the result of the Caviar Black's "deep recovery" mode |
| 06:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which it will apparently go into without warning and not leave for some time, causing the RAID controller to time out |
| 06:10 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ;.; |
| 06:11 | <@SmithKurosaki> | That is very silly |
| 06:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Presumably, if you're using software RAID or accessing the drive directly, this merely causes your system to hang for several minutes at a time~ |
| 06:11 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (Also, I didn't actually know what RAID stood for, that's really funny) |
| 06:11 | <@SmithKurosaki> | ToxicFrog> Presumably, if you're using software RAID or accessing the drive directly, this merely causes your system to hang for several minutes at a time~ <- NOT a feature |
| 06:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | It is if it means a read that would otherwise fail returns good data. |
| 06:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | AIUI, these drives include some sort of error recovery mechanism that can take extreme amounts of time. |
| 06:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | The RAID version has this disabled, since the assumption is that the RAID controller will handle the error. |
| 06:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | In short: the RAID edition will report failure almost immediately on error. The desktop edition will block for an indeterminate period of time to attempt recovery and sector remap. |
| 06:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | So basically you're paying 100% markup for a drive with one feature disabled~ |
| 06:22 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (Which is rather stupid) |
| 06:23 | <@Vornicus> | Slightly, yes. |
| 06:24 | < Orthia> | Pity they didn't make it a jumper. |
| 06:24 | <@SmithKurosaki> | That would be much easier |
| 06:29 | <@Consul> | Actually, there is a utility from WD which reportedly allows disabling this feature. |
| 06:30 | <@Consul> | And my understanding is that the RAID editions do still have the deep recovery, it just runs a lot faster. |
| 06:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not quite; it's "time-limited recovery" |
| 06:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ie, if it doesn't succeed within a fairly short period of time, it cancels. |
| 06:34 | <@Consul> | Heh |
| 06:34 | <@Consul> | Well, Tekzilla mentioned that utility to control the deep recovery on their drives. |
| 06:34 | <@Consul> | I guess I could always try asking WD about it/. |
| 06:35 | <@Consul> | Although I know they'll want me to buy the more expensive drives. |
| 06:39 | | Namegduf [~namegduf@Nightstar-7714.148.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #code |
| 06:42 | <@Consul> | Apparently, TLER can be activated on the Blacks. |
| 07:02 | <@Consul> | Now the issue being brought up is running a RAID 5 on a hardware controller. Apparently, if a controller dies before the disks do, unless I can get that exact same controller, I'll lose all the data because any new controller won't be able to rebuild the array. |
| 07:02 | <@Consul> | Blargh. |
| 07:02 | <@Consul> | I hate computers. |
| 07:03 | < Namegduf> | You would need to look into intercompatability. |
| 07:03 | < Namegduf> | I think you would need one from the same manufacturer, though, that was compatible, yeah. |
| 07:03 | <@Consul> | Well, what I have is the controller built onto my motherboard. |
| 07:03 | <@Consul> | Nvidia chipset. |
| 07:03 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, that could be annoying. |
| 07:04 | <@Consul> | How are new drives for simultaneous reading and writing of streaming data? |
| 07:07 | <@Consul> | I could always go with a replaceable PCI raid controller, but then I'm losing all the speed advantages of having the SATA controller built right into the southbridge. |
| 07:08 | <@Consul> | The suggestion is to stick with RAID1, which degrades gracefully to one drive, and has no compatibility issues across controllers. |
| 07:09 | <@Consul> | But again, I lose all the advantage of spreading my data streaming across multiple channels. |
| 07:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Consul: this is why you use software RAID, IMO |
| 07:09 | <@Consul> | Can I do that in Windows? |
| 07:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh. |
| 07:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | No idea. |
| 07:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, I wouldn't try it, |
| 07:10 | <@Consul> | And does it cause any major slowdowns? |
| 07:10 | <@Consul> | Right now, I have three discrete disks, one for OS and progs, one for audio, one for samples. |
| 07:10 | <@Consul> | And no backups. |
| 07:11 | <@Consul> | I really need a solution that will work. |
| 07:11 | < Namegduf> | Is there really any major gain to having it in the southbridge? |
| 07:12 | < Namegduf> | Also: Is it actual 'RAID' or fakeraid, as it's known? |
| 07:12 | <@Consul> | Namegduf: Well, the bus speed of the southbridge is a hell of a lot higher than the PCI bus. |
| 07:12 | < Namegduf> | Fakeraid == Drivers do almost all the work; largely equivalent to software RAID for performance. |
| 07:12 | <@Consul> | My motherboard documentation claims it's a hardware RAID controller. |
| 07:12 | < Namegduf> | Motherboard implementations tend to be fakeraid. |
| 07:13 | <@Consul> | Then where are these drivers running then? |
| 07:13 | < Namegduf> | Not sure, and it might not be. |
| 07:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...on the CPU in ring 0, like all drivers? |
| 07:14 | < Namegduf> | Hmm, I'm not sure if being on the PCI bus would ever be a problem or not. I mean, it's limited by the speed of the array. |
| 07:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it's SATA then yes, the PCI bus will be a major bottleneck |
| 07:15 | < Namegduf> | Hmm. |
| 07:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | PCI tops out at 133MB/s |
| 07:16 | <@Consul> | Hrm, my manual's BIOS setup section has nada about RAID setup, so I fear Namegduf might be right. |
| 07:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, Consul, google your raid chipset and see if it's fakeraid or not |
| 07:16 | < Namegduf> | I do know separate cards tend to be preferred for performance, so I'd assume they use PCI-E or something. |
| 07:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Likely. |
| 07:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or the performance metric in question is CPU load, not array throughput. |
| 07:18 | < Namegduf> | And you can software RAID in Windows, but Linux won't read the results, I believe. |
| 07:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | I doubt anything will read the results but windows. |
| 07:18 | < Namegduf> | Linux's software RAID is the same the other way around, I *think*. |
| 07:18 | <@Consul> | nVidia nforce 430 MCP is the Southbridge chipset. |
| 07:18 | <@Consul> | I haven't turned up much on Google yet. |
| 07:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Namegduf: correct. Although a sufficiently dedicated developer could likely write a driver for it for windows. |
| 07:19 | < Namegduf> | Yeah. |
| 07:19 | < Namegduf> | (I was just not completely sure that hadn't happened yet, although I couldn't find anything on it last time I looked) |
| 07:20 | <@Consul> | Yeah, it's fakeraid. |
| 07:20 | <@Consul> | That seems like false advertising to me. |
| 07:20 | < Namegduf> | Me too. |
| 07:21 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ditto. |
| 07:22 | <@Consul> | So it's basically a software RAID. |
| 07:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. Except it's a software RAID that stops working if you change motherboards. |
| 07:22 | < Namegduf> | Yeah, but with all the non-portability of hardware RAID, I'd assume. |
| 07:22 | < Namegduf> | Heh, yeah. |
| 07:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | All the drawbacks of hardware RAID (well, apart from the high cost) and none of the benefits! You can't go wrong! |
| 07:23 | <@Consul> | Well, that's what you get for $80, I guess. |
| 07:23 | <@Consul> | Lies are the cost of cheap hardware. |
| 07:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also, concerning windows software RAID, a quick google indicates: |
| 07:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | (1) it has it |
| 07:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | (2) it sucks |
| 07:23 | <@ToxicFrog> | (2a) no, seriously |
| 07:24 | <@Consul> | And a PCI RAID controller would be worthless. |
| 07:24 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (2b)Seriously |
| 07:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | (2b) as in people have opted to run linux in a VM with software raid and access the VM disk from windows rather than use windows software raid |
| 07:24 | < Namegduf> | Wow. |
| 07:24 | <@SmithKurosaki> | That is pretty bad |
| 07:25 | < Namegduf> | Well, got to go. |
| 07:25 | | Namegduf [~namegduf@Nightstar-7714.148.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Headin' out.] |
| 07:25 | <@Consul> | Now what the hell do I do? |
| 07:26 | <@ToxicFrog> | What's your end goal? |
| 07:26 | <@Consul> | Music recording studio computer. |
| 07:27 | <@Consul> | It needs to be able to stream audio, with zero dropouts, reading and writing simultaneously. |
| 07:27 | <@Consul> | That's why my current setup separates separate data types on different disks. |
| 07:27 | | Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK] |
| 07:27 | <@Consul> | Accessing the OS disk during a recording session won't affect the audio disk. |
| 07:28 | <@Consul> | Or at least, it shouldn't. |
| 07:28 | <@Consul> | It probabl;y does. |
| 07:28 | <@Consul> | Nvidia probably lies about that, too, and the 4 SATA channels are really just one with some fast switiching. |
| 07:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | If it's performance you're after, RAID5 is a terrible idea |
| 07:29 | <@Consul> | I'd really like to dump having three discrete disks. |
| 07:30 | <@Consul> | I'm tired of my system disk being drive E:. No matter how much I switch around the cables, nothing will fix that. |
| 07:30 | <@Consul> | Too many programs assume drive C without even asking first. |
| 07:30 | <@Consul> | And I end up with miscellaneous shit on my samples disk. |
| 07:31 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Weird |
| 07:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would say "change it using Administration->Computer Management->Drive Management", but even if it lets you this will probably break everything. |
| 07:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Starting with the OS itsel. |
| 07:31 | <@Consul> | ToxicFrog: I can't do that with E anyway. I tried. |
| 07:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways. RAID5 is convenient, but it won't give you any performance wins. |
| 07:31 | <@SmithKurosaki> | So, I hate my provincal government's it team right now |
| 07:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | RAID1 will give you normal write performance and superior read, but at the cost of most of your space |
| 07:32 | <@Consul> | Even after changing channels around and reinstalling, the 160GB disk remains drive E. |
| 07:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | RAID0 will give you superior read and write performance, but is very fragile |
| 07:32 | <@Consul> | And I don't know why. |
| 07:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...because that's how it was installed? |
| 07:32 | <@Consul> | But why would it always end up so? |
| 07:32 | <@SmithKurosaki> | I want to change the address of my health card, but because the IT people are fucking retards, my browser/os combination, which should work, does not |
| 07:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Why wouldn't it? |
| 07:32 | <@Consul> | After two re-jiggerings and reinstalls? |
| 07:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Reinstalls of the drive, or of windows? |
| 07:33 | <@Consul> | Both |
| 07:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Did the drive show up as C: in the windows installer? |
| 07:33 | <@Consul> | I switches around what drives were on what channels, and reinstalled. |
| 07:33 | <@Consul> | Nope. |
| 07:33 | <@Consul> | E remained E. |
| 07:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...then why would you expect anything different? |
| 07:33 | <@Consul> | Even in a new channel. |
| 07:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | The drive letters aren't assigned based on the BIOS ordering. |
| 07:34 | <@Consul> | I want the 160 to be C, the 320 to be D, and the 80 to be C. |
| 07:34 | <@Consul> | Err, E. |
| 07:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unless it's a pristine system, in which case the installer will presumably use that to assign the letters. |
| 07:34 | <@SmithKurosaki> | So, you would need to wipe the drive first? |
| 07:34 | <@Consul> | I guess the solution is to unhook the other two drives, and then reinstall the system. |
| 07:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | Once windows is installed, the letters are bound to the drives; it remembers which drive has which letter. |
| 07:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | And if you reinstall it, it will, I think, look for existing windows installs and use their drive maps if possible, so the drives in the installer match the ones you're used to seeing in windows itself. |
| 07:35 | <@SmithKurosaki> | (Also, it might help removing the drives you don't want the os to be on, wipe that drive and reinstall, it should assume C, no? |
| 07:35 | <@Consul> | But why would the installer refuse to let me tell it what drive letters to use? |
| 07:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Because the windows installer fucking sucks. |
| 07:35 | <@SmithKurosaki> | <ToxicFrog> Because the windows installer fucking sucks. Yes, yes it does |
| 07:35 | <@Consul> | Anyway, this has been pissing me off for a long time now. |
| 07:35 | <@SmithKurosaki> | :( |
| 07:35 | <@Consul> | That, and no data protection at all. |
| 07:36 | <@Consul> | I need a solution, and preferably one that won't cost me $400 for four new drives. |
| 07:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, I'd go with SK's suggestion, for solving the single problem of "system installed on C:": pull the other drives, back up everything on the system drive you want to keep, wipe the drive, go into the installer, create a new partition and install from scratch. |
| 07:36 | <@Consul> | Never mind the fact that I can't do RAID anyway. |
| 07:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | That should be C:, and then you just connect the other drives again. |
| 07:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...why can't you? |
| 07:36 | <@Consul> | Because I have a fakeraid controller. |
| 07:37 | <@Consul> | I refuse to trust it now. |
| 07:37 | <@Consul> | I guess I need to buy one of the $300 enterprise mobos to get something that's worthwhile. |
| 07:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | And you'd trust that? You're still fucked if it fails. |
| 07:38 | <@Consul> | Well, at least it would have PCI-E, which means a replaceable RAID controller that wouldn't suck. |
| 07:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | And would cost another $300. |
| 07:41 | | AnnoDomini [AnnoDomini@Nightstar-29644.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 07:41 | <@Consul> | So how do I back up 50-60GB of data at a time? |
| 07:42 | | mode/#code [+o AnnoDomini] by ChanServ |
| 07:42 | <@Consul> | Bluray writables? |
| 07:42 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Disc Images on another drive |
| 07:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...hmm. Ok, so, I was going to suggest just biting the bullet and using windows software raid5 |
| 07:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | But windows can't boot from raid5 |
| 07:42 | <@Consul> | I'm going to forget RAID now. |
| 07:43 | <@Consul> | It won't solve my problems. |
| 07:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | I thought you wanted to consolidate your disks? |
| 07:43 | <@ToxicFrog> | What is your overlying goal? |
| 07:43 | <@Consul> | Well, consolidate disks and get data protection. |
| 07:43 | <@Consul> | But #2 is right out the door now. |
| 07:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | So far I've heard "data protection" (which could mean "fault tolerance", "backups", or ideally both), "performance", and "consolidation" |
| 07:44 | <@Consul> | Okay, imagine how much data is involved in the making of an album. Dozens of tracks, many songs, all the related metadata. |
| 07:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | A few gigabytes at least, I'd imagine. |
| 07:45 | <@Consul> | Now, the albums done, and I have 60GB of data associated with it, all to get a measly 500MB of stereo wave files. |
| 07:45 | <@Consul> | Now, I need to back-up and save that 60GB of data, and keep it indefinitely. |
| 07:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Ok |
| 07:45 | <@Consul> | 60GB is on the low side, by the way. |
| 07:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | This sounds like you want a seperate archival storage |
| 07:46 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Yea |
| 07:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Not just a seperate directory on your main system |
| 07:46 | <@Consul> | But for me, it's probably on the high side. I'm not the "record 300 takes to a new track" kind of guy. |
| 07:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | A network mounted machine with RAID15, say |
| 07:48 | <@Consul> | I'd also like optical storage. A Bluray writer would probably work. |
| 07:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or RAID10, more likely. |
| 07:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Optical backups would also work, yes. |
| 07:48 | <@Consul> | A separate archival server wouldn't need the disk performance. |
| 07:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Correct. |
| 07:48 | <@Consul> | So I could use a PCI raid card and not care. |
| 07:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Also correct. |
| 07:48 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or fakeraid/softraid. |
| 07:48 | <@Consul> | Oh, yeah. Linux softraid would work just fine. |
| 07:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah. Offhand, RAID10, 5, or 6 would be good for this, and it supports them all. |
| 07:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Drawback is that it requires you to build an entirely new machine. |
| 07:50 | <@Consul> | Well, I have extra machines lying around. |
| 07:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Granted, it won't need any sort of HI hardware, but it's still motherboard + PSU + CPU + RAM + drives. |
| 07:51 | <@Consul> | I have a 2.7Ghz Celery or something like that in there. |
| 07:51 | <@Consul> | It has troubles I need to track down. |
| 07:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Celeron. |
| 07:51 | <@Consul> | I got two non-working machines from my sister's workplace. Between them, I'm confident I can get one working machine/. |
| 07:51 | <@Consul> | Yes, I know. I call it Celery. |
| 07:51 | <@Consul> | It's the speed I'm not sure of. |
| 07:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 07:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, I ran an eight-disk RAID6 on a dual 800MHz Xeon3 machine for two years with no troubles. |
| 07:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | (it also ran everything else) |
| 07:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | So that should be ample. |
| 07:54 | <@Consul> | And I'm still concerned about off-site storage. That's why I want the optical, so I can store them in the safety deposit box. |
| 07:54 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
| 07:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Good plan. |
| 07:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | RAID Is Not Backup, unless your backup server uses RAID~ |
| 07:54 | <@Consul> | Or see if Carbonite will let me upload gigs of files each week. :-) |
| 08:29 | <@Consul> | Guess I'm too stressed out to sleep. Blargh. |
| 09:13 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 10:07 | <@AnnoDomini> | What's the name of the technology that's used for displaying images on a screen? |
| 10:08 | <@AnnoDomini> | I mean, the one with the vertical and horizontal blanking, vertical and horizontal synchronization, etc. |
| 10:15 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
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| 11:35 | <@AnnoDomini> | Hmm. Raster scan, it seems. |
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| 14:38 | <@gnolam> | Interesting. According to Google Translate, I'm American. |
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| 15:17 | <@McMartin> | We've been Corrupting your Englishes, clearly. |
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| 16:14 | <@gnolam> | http://translate.google.com/translate_t?prev=hp&hl=en&js=y&text=Jag+är+svensk&fi le=&sl=sv&tl=en&history_state0=#sv|en|Jag%20är%20svensk <- Original text: "I am Swedish" |
| 16:14 | <@gnolam> | Where Swedish == American in /most/ languages (e.g. Danish, German, Finnish, Russian, Polish) but not all (e.g. Spanish, Hungarian). |
| 16:14 | <@McMartin> | Translation: "I'm Swedish" over here. |
| 16:14 | <@gnolam> | Très bizarre. |
| 16:15 | <@McMartin> | "Ich bin Schwedisch" |
| 16:15 | <@McMartin> | Ofc, I'm using the MTV servers, almost certainly. |
| 16:17 | <@gnolam> | Ah. For the rest of us, it spits out "I am American". |
| 16:20 | <@McMartin> | That's really weird. |
| 16:20 | | * McMartin prods the Googleplex to push its code out further. |
| 16:21 | <@McMartin> | ... er, right. |
| 16:21 | <@McMartin> | MTV here is "Mountain View", which is to say, Google HQ |
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| 16:54 | <@SmithKurosaki> | There we go |
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| 21:29 | <@Derakon> | Thread title in the GameDev.net "For Beginners" forum: "help: Settlers of Catan Video Game Legal Issues" |
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| 21:30 | <@Derakon> | Post content: "Hi, I am trying to write a video game of Settlers of Catan. I am wondering if there is any legal issues doing that. Is there any copyright law or patent law with creating video game of a board game specifically Settlers of Catan." |
| 21:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | I vaguely recall something to the effect of rulesets not being copyrightable, only implementations |
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| 21:52 | <@Vornicus> | Specifically: game rules - the actual rules, not the description thereof - are uncopyrightable. |
| 21:53 | <@Vornicus> | However stuff like art and often down to names of objects are copyrightable. |
| 21:53 | <@Vornicus> | And trademarkable, too. |
| 21:54 | <@Vornicus> | See for instance the "free parking" square on the Monopoly board is trademarked. |
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| 22:16 | <@ToxicFrog> | Right. |
| 22:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | So he could make something semantically identical to Settlers, as long as the actual implementation, including the name, artwork, manual, piece names, etc were original. |
| 22:18 | | * ToxicFrog ponders !Settlers of EVE. |
| 22:33 | <@Derakon> | Hexes become systems, roads become secured hyper lines, villages are small stations, cities are large stations, thieves are rats, soldiers are whatever the highsec AI units are... |
| 22:33 | <@Derakon> | I don't know enough about EVE mining to say what the resources would be. |
| 22:33 | <@McMartin> | SPACE SHEEP |
| 22:34 | <@Derakon> | The desert would clearly be one of those "jump to nowhere" quest locations. |
| 22:55 | <@SmithKurosaki> | You mean deadspace? |
| 22:56 | <@SmithKurosaki> | I could so see this working, you just need to work on tying stuff in eve to the game |
| 22:56 | <@Derakon> | Settlers is the new Monopoly for tie-ins. |
| 22:56 | <@Derakon> | There's a Mega Man variant in Japan, for example. |
| 23:02 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Wowo |
| 23:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | Say, would anyone here like to adopt a dwarf fortress for a year? |
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| --- Log closed Wed Aug 26 00:00:46 2009 |