| --- Log opened Wed Jun 24 00:00:26 2009 |
| 00:28 | | Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon |
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| 04:29 | | * Derakon sighs at http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/props/water1.png |
| 04:34 | <@Derakon> | Fixed, in a way that will prevent large oceans from being generated, but I think that's acceptable. |
| 04:34 | <@Derakon> | Since I'm not even certain large oceans are desirable. |
| 04:35 | <@Derakon> | The alternative solution would require me to track each connected body of water and its surface level, and then to join (and expand) bodies as necessary...which is just a nest of conditional weird logic that I don't want to get into. |
| 04:36 | <@Derakon> | So the map now looks like this: http://derakon.dyndns.org/~chriswei/games/jbrl/props/water2.png |
| 04:36 | <@Derakon> | Note the tiny puddle in the center-top tunnel, which previously was a massive thing. |
| 04:44 | <@Derakon> | Log levels are Debug -> Inform -> Warn -> Error -> Fatal, right? |
| 04:44 | <@Vornicus> | Right. |
| 04:46 | <@Derakon> | Danke. |
| 05:07 | <@Derakon> | Right. I haven't added the actual physics to water, but I think otherwise this is good to go open-source. |
| 05:11 | <@Derakon> | Hmmm. Google Code offers SVN or Mercurial. |
| 05:11 | <@Derakon> | Mercurial is apparently similar to git. |
| 05:11 | <@Derakon> | Well, hell, I already know how to use SVN. Therefore I should try Mercurial. |
| 05:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. It's another DVCS. |
| 05:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | It has a much cleaner codebase, but is slower and less flexible. |
| 05:12 | <@Derakon> | Speed is not my top concern when it comes to version control, but how is it less flexible? |
| 05:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Bear in mind that I've barely used Mercurial, so this is going mainly on second-hand reports by people who have used both |
| 05:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mercurial is very good at what it does, but if you want to do something outside that envelope you simply can't |
| 05:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Git is somewhat less polished but can be shaped to pretty much any workflow you might need |
| 05:14 | <@Namegduf> | I've never used Mercurial, but I use git. |
| 05:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | The analogy I liked most was "Mercurial is James Bond; Git is MacGyver" |
| 05:14 | <@Namegduf> | Git seems pretty polished. |
| 05:14 | <@Namegduf> | They use it for quite a lote of stuff. |
| 05:14 | <@Namegduf> | It's not essentially user friendly, though, which is a slightly different thing. |
| 05:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | Git is a pain in the ass to interface with from other software, and a IME a lot of the commands behave in slightly surprising ways |
| 05:15 | <@ToxicFrog> | (especially if you're coming from a centralized VCS) |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | Yeah, but that's... "first few weeks of use" stuff. |
| 05:16 | <@Namegduf> | And then you're good. |
| 05:16 | <@Derakon> | Namegduf: keep in mind, the easier it is for people to try out the code, the more likely they are to make contributions. |
| 05:17 | <@Namegduf> | Derakon: Given they'll probably not be needing to do anything arcane, and you won't be giving them commit access, that's probably not a problem. |
| 05:17 | <@Namegduf> | Derakon: I mean, it's still one command to clone the repo. |
| 05:18 | <@Derakon> | Namegduf: well, there's still getting the VCS software and learning the invocation to grab everything. |
| 05:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | "git clone url" |
| 05:22 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, in Mercurial, "hg clone url" IIRC |
| 05:23 | <@SmithKurosaki> | TF, it it's hg, that is quite humurous |
| 05:24 | <@Derakon> | What else would you call it, keeping in mind that you want a command that's four characters long or under for maximal speed and confusing of newbies? |
| 05:24 | <@SmithKurosaki> | No, that's not even it. I see mercurial -> mercury = hg |
| 05:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes, that's the point :) |
| 05:25 | <@Derakon> | Indeed. |
| 05:25 | <@SmithKurosaki> | So, it's actually a good idea because people will remember it |
| 05:25 | <@Derakon> | People who know the periodic table, anyway. |
| 05:26 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Well, other than computer nerds, who will use version controle? |
| 05:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Content implementors. |
| 05:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | Documentation writers. |
| 05:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | QA. |
| 05:37 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Hmm |
| 05:38 | <@Vornicus> | Preferably, everybody. |
| 05:39 | <@Vornicus> | It's sure a hell of a lot better than throwing something out and then going "hey that was a good idea" six months later. |
| 05:39 | <@Derakon> | VCS makes backups straightforward, as a general rule, and everyone should use backups. |
| 05:39 | <@SmithKurosaki> | But, people are stupid, Vornicus |
| 05:39 | <@Derakon> | It's true that you said "will" instead of "should". |
| 05:53 | <@Derakon> | Any reason I shouldn't use GPL v3? |
| 05:57 | <@Vornicus> | Not that I can think of. |
| 06:00 | <@Namegduf> | Compatibility with v2-only projects. |
| 06:01 | <@Namegduf> | That's it. |
| 06:01 | <@Derakon> | This is a pretty standalone project, so *shrug*. |
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| 06:12 | <@Derakon> | Right. Jetblade (renamed from "Jetblade RL" as the RL is superfluous at this point) is now online at http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/ |
| 06:13 | <@Derakon> | The only thing missing is the Blender model file for the terrain blocks, as it exceeds 10MB and mercurial warned me that this could cause problems. It needs to be split up anyway. |
| 06:16 | | Consul_ [~Consul__@Nightstar-3702.dsl.sfldmi.ameritech.net] has joined #code |
| 06:17 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mercurial has trouble with 10MB files? |
| 06:17 | <@Derakon> | "models/blocks.blend: files over 10MB may cause memory and performance problems" |
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| 06:18 | <@Derakon> | blocks.blend is, amusingly, 11142368 bytes. |
| 06:18 | <@Derakon> | Or 10.63MB. |
| 06:18 | | * SmithKurosaki facepalms |
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| 06:30 | < Finale> | <IndianElvis>: I AM NOT TALKING LOUD I AM JUST USED TO THIS , I AM A COBOL PROGRAMMER |
| 06:35 | <@Derakon> | Could someone verify that they can access the source code? |
| 06:35 | <@Derakon> | I'm not certain if it's viewable by non-members (though that would kind of contradict the concept of "open source") |
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| 06:39 | <@Kazriko> | Huh. I don't recall ever getting an error about file sizes from svn. |
| 06:46 | <@Vornicus> | I can get the source code. |
| 06:47 | <@Derakon> | Rock. |
| 07:11 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 07:12 | <@Derakon> | Heyo, TW. Jetblade's online and you can grab the source. |
| 07:13 | <@Derakon> | http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/ |
| 07:16 | <@TheWatcher> | Woot. |
| 07:17 | <@TheWatcher> | I shall do so, once I'm actually awake |
| 07:19 | <@Derakon> | Heh. No rush. |
| 07:19 | <@Derakon> | You'll need Mercurial installed to access the source. |
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| --- Log opened Wed Jun 24 14:46:39 2009 |
| 14:46 | | TheWatcher [~chris@Nightstar-29731.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #code |
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| 17:21 | <@Tarinaky> | Why do I find "IF THEN THEN THEN = ELSE; ELSE ELSE = THEN;" -hilarious-? |
| 17:24 | <@Derakon> | Because you like obfuscated code? |
| 17:27 | <@ToxicFrog> | In what language is that legal? |
| 17:28 | <@Tarinaky> | PL/1 |
| 17:28 | <@Derakon> | This is why you can't normally make variables that have the same names as keywords. ¬.¬ |
| 17:28 | <@Tarinaky> | That's exactly what it's offered as an example of. |
| 17:29 | <@Tarinaky> | "the rules for distinguishing keywords from identifiers are quite complicated as the following PL/1 statement illustrates:" |
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| 18:02 | | * Derakon starts working on a roadmap for Jetblade. |
| 18:54 | | * jerith ponders FORTRAN, where one can redefine 4. |
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| 19:06 | | * Derakon gets his first bug report for Jetblade, fixes. |
| 19:12 | <@gnolam> | #ifdef INDIANA |
| 19:12 | <@gnolam> | #undef M_PI |
| 19:12 | <@gnolam> | #define M_PI 4 |
| 19:12 | <@gnolam> | #endif |
| 19:12 | | * Derakon quirks an eyebrow. |
| 19:19 | < simontwo> | what. |
| 19:20 | < simontwo> | sounds like dailywtf material. |
| 19:35 | | * gnolam yays. |
| 19:35 | <@gnolam> | Aced the computer graphics exam as well. |
| 19:35 | <@gnolam> | I'm on a roll! |
| 19:37 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 19:45 | | * Derakon <3 the Google Code issue tracker. |
| 19:45 | <@Derakon> | It automatically fills out the issue description with the information you're expected to provide. |
| 19:46 | <@TheWatcher> | Oh? |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | Steps to reproduce, expected result, actual result, additional information. |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | Er, it prompts you to fill out that information. |
| 19:47 | <@Derakon> | It's not so smart as to read your mind and put it in automatically. :) |
| 19:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | Guarantee you 90% of people will fail to fill them in anyways~ |
| 19:53 | <@Derakon> | Yeah, well. Better than 98%. |
| 19:55 | <@Derakon> | First issue reported: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/issues/detail?id=1 |
| 20:03 | <@SmithKurosaki> | What is this all about? |
| 20:03 | <@Derakon> | The project I've been working on. |
| 20:03 | <@SmithKurosaki> | Sweet |
| 20:10 | | * Derakon figures out how to upload images to the wiki. |
| 20:18 | <@Derakon> | G'wan and check it out: http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/ |
| 20:59 | | UndeadAnno is now known as GoodIncarnation |
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| 22:11 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. D looks like a really cool language. |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | I've heard many good things about it |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | Assuming you mean the "let us not do what C++ did" language, not the dtrace control language. |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yeah, the former. |
| 22:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | The compiled, statically type checked, garbage collected language with closures, lexical scoping, and all that other tasty stuff. |
| 22:12 | <@McMartin> | They also have a sensible approach to MI. |
| 22:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | Quite. |
| 22:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | There was some discussion about Lua<->D interaction in freenode/#lua, so I hopped over to freenode/#d to see what was what |
| 22:13 | <@Derakon> | MI == multiple inheritance? |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | Yeah |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | I don't actually remember where I ran into D. It might even have been here. |
| 22:13 | <@McMartin> | I think it was some weird randomwalk through LJ though. |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Now I want to give it a try, but I don't know what to use it on. |
| 22:14 | <@Derakon> | Hmm...Wikipedia says that D doesn't do multiple inheritances but supports interfaces. |
| 22:14 | <@McMartin> | A common lament |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: exactly. |
| 22:14 | <@McMartin> | Derakon: That's what I meant~ |
| 22:14 | <@Derakon> | Heh. |
| 22:14 | <@Derakon> | TF: Project Euler~? |
| 22:14 | <@McMartin> | Its interfaces can also have default implementations. |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | It also supports mixins! |
| 22:14 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which make me happy. |
| 22:15 | <@Derakon> | Mixins are not something I've run into before. |
| 22:15 | <@McMartin> | Mixins are one of the tiny handful of sane things to do with MI. |
| 22:15 | <@McMartin> | I personally dislike them, preferring composite/view models instead |
| 22:15 | <@McMartin> | (asFoo()) |
| 22:15 | <@Derakon> | Idly. If any of you are running Windows and want to write up a guide to getting Jetblade working "from scratch", that'd be wonderful~ |
| 22:16 | <@Derakon> | (From scratch meaning without any dependencies preinstalled) |
| 22:16 | <@Derakon> | C.f. http://code.google.com/p/jetblade/wiki/GettingStarted |
| 22:18 | <@ToxicFrog> | McMartin: I think you've explained this to me before, but...composite/view models? |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | Basically, you have an object A, which you also want to operate as types B, C, and D |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | You can have B, C, and D be mixins and use multiple inheritance |
| 22:19 | <@ToxicFrog> | Derakon: basically, a mixin is an interface that supplies default (or, depending on environment, definitive) implementations for the methods it requires. |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | You can have interfaces and do it that way |
| 22:19 | <@McMartin> | Or you can have A, B, C, and D be unrelated but A has methods of the form B A::asB() |
| 22:19 | <@Derakon> | TF: yeah, I got that. |
| 22:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah |
| 22:20 | <@McMartin> | The TADS 3 standard library is lousy with mixins |
| 22:25 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh yes, it also has pure functions and transitive invariance. |
| 22:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...on the other hand, the lexis for this language is disgusting |
| 22:35 | | * Derakon files a couple more issues with the physics engine. |
| 23:05 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
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| 23:23 | <@gnolam> | Argh. More alarm sampling. |
| 23:57 | <@Consul> | On the off-chance this doesn't get me kicked, I uploaded to new space arts today: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmlandrum/sets/72157620153861871/ |
| 23:57 | <@Consul> | Normally I'd do that in the Bar, but nobody there seems to care anymore. |
| 23:57 | <@Derakon> | Ahh, no worries. |
| 23:58 | <@Derakon> | This place is pretty quiet ATM. |
| 23:58 | <@Consul> | And now I need to go gas up my car for tomorrow. |
| 23:58 | <@Consul> | BBIAB |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 25 00:00:40 2009 |