| --- Log opened Fri Oct 26 00:00:06 2007 |
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| 03:38 | <@Reiver> | !10000/25 |
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| 03:39 | <@Reiver> | !10000/25 |
| 03:39 | <+DiceBot> | [Reiver] 10000/25 = 400. |
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| 03:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | We need a postscript interpreter in here. |
| 03:55 | <@McMartin> | We do? |
| 04:33 | <@Reiver> | TF: This could... possibly be done... |
| 04:33 | <@Reiver> | I'd need to know just what level of syntactical nightmare we're looking at, though. The interpreter for mere dice is scary enough. ¬¬ |
| 04:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, I was figuring we could just hijack ghostscript! |
| 04:34 | <@Reiver> | ...whut? |
| 04:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | The syntax is actually very simple: |
| 04:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | S := TOKENS |
| 04:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | TOKENS := TOKEN TOKENS | epsilon |
| 04:34 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's the complete grammar~ |
| 04:34 | | * Reiver eyes that. |
| 04:35 | <@McMartin> | That's, um, not hugely useful in specifying semantics. |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | I know. |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | And those are, after all, the tricky bit. |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | I think it has four stacks. |
| 04:35 | <@Reiver> | Ah...hah. |
| 04:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Possibly more, but I can only think of four offhand. |
| 04:35 | <@Reiver> | Probably beyond my realm of expertise. If you explain it well enough Anno might get drunk enough to agree, though~ |
| 04:35 | <@McMartin> | Also, you can write that S := TOKEN* |
| 04:36 | <@McMartin> | Which is also, idly, a grammar for C, Pascal, SQL, and English. |
| 04:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, what I was thinking is, we already have a perfectly serviceable postscript terp in the form of Ghostscript; it's just a matter of making something that can popen() it. |
| 04:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, yes, but my point here is that ps doesn't really have a grammar beyond "token stream" |
| 04:37 | <@Reiver> | ghostscript being a linux trickerymabob? |
| 04:37 | <@McMartin> | GS being the PostScript engine for pretty much every computer and OS ever. |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | But not printer. |
| 04:38 | <@Reiver> | Right then. |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | It's one of the engines that renders PS to screen. |
| 04:38 | <@McMartin> | Augh |
| 04:38 | <@Reiver> | Aah. |
| 04:39 | <@McMartin> | Oh hey, OCaml has man pages! |
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| 04:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | And to images. |
| 04:53 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it makes a handy desk calculator. |
| 05:00 | <@McMartin> | w00t! |
| 05:00 | <@McMartin> | # get_methods "../filetest/FileTest.class";; |
| 05:00 | <@McMartin> | - : (string * Instructions.opcode list) list = |
| 05:00 | <@McMartin> | [("<init>()V", [Aload 0; Invokespecial 1; Return]); ...] |
| 05:03 | <@ToxicFrog> | Java disassembler worky? |
| 05:03 | <@McMartin> | Looks like |
| 05:03 | <@McMartin> | But only in Interactive mode. |
| 05:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Once you have a version that works in batch mode, I could use a copy~ |
| 05:04 | <@McMartin> | Noted~ |
| 05:04 | <@McMartin> | I need to do the constant pool consultation, though. |
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| 05:05 | <@McMartin> | So that it will be INVOKESPECIAL java.lang.Object.<init>()V instead of "Invokespecial 1". |
| 05:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | What with having to disassemble class files in order to complete the assignments for this course >.< |
| 05:07 | <@McMartin> | In the meantime, javap -c {classname}. |
| 05:07 | <@McMartin> | You may need other flags to hit private methods and the like |
| 05:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. I've just been using less. |
| 05:07 | <@McMartin> | It's just slow, and fails if it refers to classes that aren't in the classpath. |
| 05:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | But that's kind of tedious. |
| 05:07 | <@McMartin> | yes. |
| 05:08 | <@McMartin> | And it's not as systematic about the Constant Pool. |
| 05:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | (if I need to know about private methods I'm right fucked anyways) |
| 05:21 | <@McMartin> | Oh, you just need the defined members? |
| 05:22 | <@McMartin> | Commands like javap -protected java.lang.String will do |
| 05:23 | <@McMartin> | I haven't found any zlib bindings for OCaml, so no Jarfile support~ |
| 05:26 | <@McMartin> | Aha. OK, found zlib bindings, but only for .gz, not .zip. |
| 05:27 | <@McMartin> | Which would be easy enough to fix up, especially given the Awesome that is BinStruct. |
| 05:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | What does BinStruct do? |
| 05:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | I take it that it's something along the lines of struct() |
| 05:29 | <@McMartin> | Yeah. |
| 05:29 | <@McMartin> | It's a functor I wrote to do binary packing and unpacking. |
| 05:30 | <@McMartin> | Can be combined with files or strings. |
| 05:30 | <@ToxicFrog> | Aah. |
| 05:30 | <@McMartin> | Though the disassembler is only using strings for it, because it has to do recursive resolution, so I decided to just have to instantiate the decoder once. |
| 05:31 | <@McMartin> | So it gobbles an entire classfile into memory as a string and then picks it apart. |
| 05:31 | <@McMartin> | But BinStruct itself doesn't demand this. |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | wtf |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | [ben@leela ~]$ dig orias | grep IN | grep -v '^;'; ping orias |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | orias. 0 IN A 192.168.1.202 |
| 05:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | ping: unknown host orias |
| 05:57 | <@McMartin> | Yay! |
| 05:58 | | * McMartin gets gzip support working in OCaml. Sort of. |
| 05:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...oh, goddamnit |
| 05:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | Since my hostname is "leela.ancilla.ca", it asks for "orias.ancilla.ca" rather than "orias" |
| 06:37 | <@McMartin> | Is caml.inria.fr down for anyone else? |
| 06:37 | <@AnnoDomini> | Reiver: I rewrote the dice parser. It's now about half the size and doesn't leave trash, but it did nothing for its readability. <_< |
| 06:39 | <@AnnoDomini> | It isn't loading for me. |
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| 07:00 | <@McMartin> | There is an OCaml library for reading Jarfiles, but it's on inria's site, so I can't reach it. |
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| 15:29 | <@jerith> | I call for wisdom! |
| 15:30 | <@jerith> | In debugging a set of RPC calls I have written, it turns out the caller expects an array of pairs and the callee actually returns a map. |
| 15:30 | <@jerith> | Now, the calls are essentially lookups of some values in a table of associations. |
| 15:31 | <@Vornicus> | an array of pairs and a map are very similar. |
| 15:31 | <@jerith> | One call looks up b given a and the other looks up a given b. |
| 15:31 | <@jerith> | Ordinarily, a map would be the natural data structure in this case. |
| 15:32 | <@Vornicus> | You should be able to drop in a passthrough function that does it, and probably one that already exist. |
| 15:32 | <@jerith> | However, assuming I was getting back a list, I have written a bunch of common manipulations on the caller's side. |
| 15:33 | <@Vornicus> | hell, in python: dict.items() |
| 15:33 | <@jerith> | The more natural data structure in this case is the map, but then I'd have to duplicate a bunch of stuff to differentiate between a=>b and b=>a. |
| 15:34 | <@jerith> | The list of pairs means a bunch of changes on the callee side. |
| 15:35 | <@Vornicus> | You could just make it a bipartate graph and have done with it. |
| 15:35 | <@Vornicus> | :P |
| 15:35 | <@McMartin> | In Java, Map.entries(). |
| 15:35 | <@jerith> | At least one of these calls is going to be pretty high volume, so I would rather build the data structure I want in the first place than have to translate it on the border. |
| 15:36 | <@Vornicus> | You can... fake a map. Write the methods you're calling to place into an array of pairs instead of a map. |
| 15:36 | <@Vornicus> | But the things we've mentioned are pretty damn cheap. |
| 15:37 | <@jerith> | There's also a clarity issue. |
| 15:37 | <@jerith> | Debugging gets painful if you're bouncing between data structures a lot. |
| 15:37 | <@Vornicus> | Man, when you seek wisdom, you don't kid around, do you. |
| 15:37 | <@jerith> | My quandry is more philosophical than practical. |
| 15:38 | <@jerith> | The map is more natural, but requires more code paths. |
| 15:38 | <@Vornicus> | Personally "more natural" beats "less code paths" any day of the week. |
| 15:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | What are you writing this in, anyways? |
| 15:38 | <@jerith> | The list allows more reuse. |
| 15:38 | <@jerith> | Java. |
| 15:38 | <@McMartin> | List of Map.Entry<>s, imo. |
| 15:40 | <@jerith> | I'm inclined to agree with McM here, I think. |
| 15:40 | <@jerith> | A single AToBAssociation structure is a bit nicer than having a BToAAssociation as well. |
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| 15:41 | <@jerith> | Also, that apparently suits the RPC abstraction a little better. |
| 15:42 | <@jerith> | Thanks for your input, guys. |
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| 19:08 | <@McMartin> | TF: Do you still want that Java Classfile dumper? |
| 19:09 | | * McMartin nickpings ToxicFrog |
| 19:09 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes please. |
| 19:09 | <@McMartin> | OK |
| 19:10 | <@McMartin> | It's v. preliminary -- it's not converting JVM representation to Java on types, for instance -- but it will dump access flags, inheritance, and member lists. |
| 19:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | (If I do not respond, it is not because I haven't noticed, it's because the wireless in MacKinnon is kind of...wobbly) |
| 19:11 | | * ToxicFrog nods |
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| 19:15 | <@McMartin> | http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/javadump-0.1.tgz |
| 19:17 | <@McMartin> | "make" will produce the bytecode-file "javadump", while "make native" will produce "javadump.opt". |
| 19:17 | <@McMartin> | Oh, and it's http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/misc/javadump-0.1.tgz |
| 19:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Got, thanks you |
| 19:20 | <@McMartin> | And it can be find|xargs'd. |
| 19:23 | <@jerith> | http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/cpg/460249817.html <-- Senior LOLCode Developer (Midtown) |
| 19:23 | <@McMartin> | awesome |
| 20:19 | <@McMartin> | Hum. Well, that was easy enough. |
| 20:20 | | * McMartin whips up 30 more lines of code, parses JVM types to Java types. |
| 20:28 | <@McMartin> | http://www.stanford.edu/~mcmartin/misc/javadump-0.2.tgz |
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| --- Log closed Sat Oct 27 00:00:13 2007 |