code logs -> 2007 -> Tue, 29 May 2007< code.20070528.log - code.20070530.log >
--- Log opened Tue May 29 00:00:25 2007
00:14
<@Derakon>
Hrm...I bet this is fallout from my can't-handle-acute-angles problem.
00:15
<@Derakon>
And my brilliant idea to use unclosed convex polygons doesn't work. So I guess I'd better just fix the root cause. *sigh*
00:15 ReivZzz is now known as ReivClass
00:34
<@Derakon>
...heh. Silly features to implement in the way-far-off future: savestates, slow-motion, and rerecords.
00:35
<@ToxicFrog>
Heh. Yes.
00:35
<@Derakon>
Savestates actually wouldn't be too hard, I think.
00:35
<@ToxicFrog>
Well, savestates == quicksave.
00:35
<@Derakon>
And actually, I just did slow-motion.
00:36
<@Derakon>
Well, to be fair, I've had slow-motion for a while, but now you can turn it on and off without recompiling.
00:59 * ToxicFrog ponders Lunar Linux.
00:59
<@ToxicFrog>
Experience so far: like Gentoo, only without the suck.
01:00 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
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01:16 gnolam [lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has quit [Quit: Z?]
01:22
<@ToxicFrog>
And now...building the Linux kernel, from source, on a 400MHz Celeron.
01:22
<@Derakon>
Enjoy!
01:22
<@Derakon>
Hrm...this problem does not look tractable.
01:22
<@Derakon>
I don't suppose you're familiar with the Separation of Axes theorem?
01:22
<@ToxicFrog>
At least actually setting up the build was fairly painless.
01:23
<@ToxicFrog>
Indeed, Lunar appears to Win for user-friendly source-based distro.
01:23
<@ToxicFrog>
Nope!
01:23
<@Derakon>
Hmm...well, let me finish this diagram real quick and I'll describe it to you.
01:25
<@ToxicFrog>
(I really hope this build finishes tonight. I want to play Odin Sphere!)
01:25 * Serah nibbles on TF.
01:25
<@ToxicFrog>
eep!
01:25
<@Serah>
Ledicious.
01:25
<@Derakon>
I get my Odin Sphere tomorrow.
01:25
<@ToxicFrog>
I was out and about in town today anyways.
01:25
<@ToxicFrog>
So I decided to spend some of that sweet, sweet tax money.
01:26
<@ToxicFrog>
I was able to pick up Sonic Heroes, Shadow, and VP: Lenneth for a combined $50, then realized that Odin Sphere was out and grabbed that at the same time.
01:26
<@Derakon>
Okay, http://66.235.60.44/~chriswei/temp/polygon3.png
01:26
<@Derakon>
Basically, SAT is a method of determining if two convex polygons intersect.
01:26
<@Derakon>
The jist of it is that if you can prove that there's a line that, when you project the two polygons onto it, they do not overlap, then you know that they do not intersect.
01:27
<@Derakon>
And as it turns out, the only lines you need to use for convex polygons are the ones that are normal to the polygons' edges.
01:27
<@Derakon>
So what I've drawn there is a triangle and a box that intersect, with the gray lines being their projections onto the normals of two of the triangle's edges.
01:27
<@Derakon>
With me so far?
01:29
<@Derakon>
I've augmented the image with polygon names and a velocity vector. Reload.
01:30
<@Serah>
What is this Odin Sphere?
01:30
<@Derakon>
Now, normally, the normal that gives you the smallest overlap is also the one that tells you which way you want to back out the polygon to avoid intersection.
01:30
<@Derakon>
But in this case, that is not the case.
01:31
<@Derakon>
You want to back out along the diagonal normal, but it has a *longer* overlap than the vertical normal.
01:31
<@Derakon>
And, short of sweeping the polygons along their velocities, I don't see a good way to avoid this.
01:31
<@Derakon>
Serah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin_Sphere
01:32
<@Serah>
Oh, a PS2 game.
01:33
<@ToxicFrog>
Serah: platformy RPGy norsey thing with an art style reminiscent of Valkyrie Profile.
01:33
<@Serah>
Ah, thanks.
01:34
<@ToxicFrog>
"I have this tree, right? And this tree eats souls. And when I eat the fruit it grows, my hitpoints gain experience."
01:36
<@Derakon>
I don't suppose you have any insight, TF?
01:37
<@ToxicFrog>
Nope.
02:09
<@Derakon>
Hmm...time to check out the N forums. I know they know SAT!
02:15
<@Derakon>
...bah. The tutorials basically say "it's unavoidable, but hey, at least you know they collided!". Yeah, thanks a lot.
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03:08 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
03:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Kernel is still building ;.;
03:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Perhaps I should have taken the time to disable a bunch of the drivers I don't need.
03:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Like, say, all of sound support.
03:26
<@Derakon[AFK]>
Heh.
03:26 Derakon[AFK] is now known as Derakon
03:26
<@Derakon>
Playing sound directly through the sound card?
03:26
<@ToxicFrog>
Not playing sound at all.
03:26
<@ToxicFrog>
The speaker lines connect to Durandal.
03:26
<@Derakon>
Ah.
03:26
<@ToxicFrog>
Oculus' job is only to translate RCA video signals into VGA.
03:26
<@Derakon>
So you just need this one for video?
03:27
<@Derakon>
Seems a bit excessive to dedicate an entire computer to that task...
03:27
<@ToxicFrog>
Well, one, it's a CF-110. It's slightly smaller than a toaster.
03:27
< ReivClass>
OMG TOASTER
03:27 * ReivClass dives for cover.
03:27
<@ToxicFrog>
It's larger than a dedicated VGA->RCA adapter, but then, it's also free.
03:28
<@ToxicFrog>
(err, RCA->VGA)
03:28
<@ToxicFrog>
I could put the video capture card back into Durandal, but windows support for it is terrible.
03:28
<@ToxicFrog>
My choices are basically:
03:29
<@ToxicFrog>
(1) Capture software that looks fine but lags about two seconds behind, which results in obvious problems when gaming
03:29
<@ToxicFrog>
(2) capture software that runs fine but does no deinterlacing and thus looks like ass
03:29
<@Derakon>
(3) Buy a TV. ¬.¬
03:29
<@ToxicFrog>
(3) capture software that both runs fine and looks fine, but has a 40% chance to generate a kernel panic the first time it's run after boot and a 90% chance the second time.
03:31
<@ToxicFrog>
A TV would be, um. One, wholly redundant, and two, either viciously expensive, not as good as the monitor I already have, not capable of fitting on my desk, or all three.
03:32
<@Derakon>
I note that having a high-res display does not magically make the output high-res. A PS2 is not capable of anything over about 640x480.
03:36
<@Derakon>
Also, this video shows Insane Mode on Aleste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYIHAgvqWJc
03:37
<@Derakon>
Mind you, pretty blurrily.
03:41
<@ToxicFrog>
Yes, I know. However, 640x480 with openGL scaling looks a lot better than plain 640x480.
03:41
<@Derakon>
Heh.
03:43
<@ToxicFrog>
And 640x480 with openGL scaling on a 19" flatscreen CRT looks better than on any TV that I could get for less than a fucktonne of money, especially if I want it to actually fit on my desk.
04:14
<@Derakon>
Hah! Fixed it!
04:15
<@Derakon>
Simple fix, really: if the normal I've calculated would require pushing the polygon through the poly it collided with, then *flip the gorram normal!*
04:29
<@Derakon>
Any thoughts on the video?
04:45
<@ToxicFrog>
That is insane.
04:45
<@ToxicFrog>
I'd still rather use the charge beam, though~
04:45
<@Derakon>
Aptly named, then.
04:46 * ToxicFrog finds the secret of campaign mods in SupComm
04:46
<@Derakon>
Well, yes, the player is of debatable sanity for using only weapons that don't destroy bullets.
04:46
<@Derakon>
Hmm?
04:46
<@ToxicFrog>
This may actually be a bug.
04:46
<@Derakon>
Is it a useful one?
04:47
<@ToxicFrog>
The original behaviour, I mean.
04:47
<@Derakon>
Ah.
04:47
<@ToxicFrog>
When the singleplayer starts, it calls GetCampaignMods(), which forces CampaignBranch, the singleplayer stat tuning mod, on - and all others off.
04:47
<@Derakon>
Heh.
04:47
<@ToxicFrog>
It's not clear to me whether the intended behaviour was "enable only only this mod" or "add this mod to the list of enabled ones", but as written the behaviour is the latter.
04:48
<@ToxicFrog>
Er.
04:48
<@ToxicFrog>
The former.
04:48
<@ToxicFrog>
Anyways. A simple change to GetCampaignMods() fixes this and allows all mods to be used in singleplayer.
04:48
<@Derakon>
Nice.
04:48
<@Derakon>
Submit it and see if they make it official.
04:48
<@ToxicFrog>
However, this probably results in multiplayer incompatibility, and for obvious reasons it can't be a mod.
04:49
<@ToxicFrog>
So people will have to move CME.scd out of /gamedata/ when they want to play multiplayer. Unless....hrm.
04:50 * ToxicFrog fires up mission 6 and immediately scuttles his entire navy - and they leave wreckage! Squee!
04:50
<@Derakon>
Heh.
04:51
<@Derakon>
When's SupComm coming out for Mac? ¬.¬
04:51
<@ToxicFrog>
...buh
04:51
<@ToxicFrog>
Something I just realized
04:51
<@ToxicFrog>
I never tested Naval Wreckage to see if naval buildings left wreckage!
04:51
<@ToxicFrog>
MY ENTIRE LIFE IS A LIE AAAAAAAAAAAAUGH
04:52
<@ToxicFrog>
Ok, they do.
05:18
<@Derakon>
So when's SupComm coming out for Mac?
05:22
<@ToxicFrog>
I don't know if it ever is.
05:22
<@ToxicFrog>
It's very directX.
05:22
<@Derakon>
Grrr.
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05:26 * Pi points and laughs at ToxicFrog
05:27
<@Derakon>
Do you know offhand what the convert-to-int function in Lua is called, TF?
05:35
<@Derakon>
(It's math.floor)
05:41
<@Derakon>
Hah! I can now click on bits of terrain to change their shape!
05:42
<@Derakon>
And I can click where there is no ground to create ground!
05:43
<@Derakon>
And destroy terrain!
05:43
<@Derakon>
In a rather hackish manner, but still!
05:50 * Derakon adds new terrain types, discovers a bug with his custom backout-along-velocity logic.
05:50
<@Derakon>
Ahh, well. That at least should be simple enough to fix, I suspect.
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06:37
<@Derakon>
There we go. Fixed by removing an early attempt at optimization.
06:40 Derakon is now known as Derakon[AFK]
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10:24
< MyCatVerbs>
Derakon[AFK]: premature optimization is the root of all evil, right?
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13:21
<@ToxicFrog>
It's ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVE
13:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Ok, lunar(1) kicks a whole mess of ass.
13:27
<@Vornicus>
lunar?
13:28
<@ToxicFrog>
I'll explain from work. Bbiab.
13:31
<@Vornicus>
k
13:35
<@TheWatcher>
Gah
13:36
<@TheWatcher>
Anyone know of a hex editor that will let me /create/ files by hand, rather than just edit existing ones. or am I jus tlooking at making a file of zerosto the length I need and just editing that?
13:53
<@Vornicus>
Not that I'm aware of.
14:14
< Reiver>
...What you are asking is to hexedit your filesystem?
14:15
<@Vornicus>
no, no
14:15
<@Vornicus>
He want a hex editor with a "new" button.
14:16
<@Vornicus>
I haven't seen many with such a simple thing.
14:16
< Reiver>
...Oh.
14:16
< Reiver>
Oh, I thought he wanted to create files by hand.
14:17
<@Vornicus>
Well, yes.
14:17
< Reiver>
Which was, uh, "...Why would you want to?" ¬¬
14:17
< Reiver>
Er.
14:17
< Reiver>
Perhaps I cannot get the emphasis right.
14:17
< Reiver>
But you know.
14:17
< Reiver>
Going through the file creation process via hex editing stuff.
14:17
<@Vornicus>
You're thinking he wants full-on filesystem twiddling.
14:17
<@Vornicus>
No.
14:17
< Reiver>
He just wants a 'new' button hm
14:17
<@Vornicus>
He wants the same New button that, say, Notepad gets.
14:18
< Reiver>
... I daresay this is rare because no madman ever /wants/ such a thing. :p
14:18
<@Vornicus>
I've wanted it a few times.
14:21
<@TheWatcher>
Reiver: luckily, I'm not a madman, then
14:21
< Reiver>
hrm
14:21
< Reiver>
s/on madman/only a madman/~
14:21
< Reiver>
uh
14:22
< Reiver>
only correct
14:22
< Reiver>
shut up. ¬¬
14:22
<@TheWatcher>
:p
14:22
< Reiver>
(This is why I don't buse vi~)
14:22
< Reiver>
14:22
< Reiver>
... I think I just made my point through sheer irony.
14:23
<@TheWatcher>
Oh, screw this, I'll just dump abunch of zeros and edit it my hand in hexl-mode
14:27
<@ToxicFrog>
I think XVI32 has one.
14:27
<@ToxicFrog>
But as a rule, it's not something there's a lot of demand for.
14:27 ToxicFrog is now known as ToxicFrog|W`rkn
14:29
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Vornicus: lunar(1) is the collection of, and frontend to, package management tools in Lunar Linux.
14:29
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Which is a source-base distribution that, so far, doesn't suck.
14:29
<@Vornicus>
Okay, how many asses does Lunar kick?
14:30
< MyCatVerbs>
Vornicus: three billion.
14:30
< MyCatVerbs>
Vornicus: four if you have a love of ricing your kernel up :)
14:30
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Well, ok. First of all, the installation: basic curses-based installer, easy to use, sane defaults. Option of using a precompiled kernel or building your own (with or without configuration), installer Just Works - pretty standard so far except that it's actually painless.
14:31
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Only problem I had was lack of support for wacky bootloader configurations in the installer, but you can always shell out.
14:31
< MyCatVerbs>
ToxicFrog|W`rkn: so... Gentoo with Slackware's installer and minus some of the insanity of USE flags?
14:31
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Once installed...
14:31
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Ok, there are no USE flags. The global settings are just optimization flags.
14:31
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Instead, when you install a package, it presents you with a list of settings supported by it.
14:31
< MyCatVerbs>
I might have to try that. I'm vaguely half looking out for a decent distro for to be sticking on mein desktopmachinen.
14:31
<@Vornicus>
TF: /win/
14:32
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Ones you have the prereqs for default to on; ones you don't default to off.
14:32
< MyCatVerbs>
ToxicFrog|W`rkn: oh, spiffy awesome.
14:32
< MyCatVerbs>
With butter.
14:32
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
If you enable one you don't have the prereqs for it downloads those, too. Etc.
14:32
< MyCatVerbs>
ToxicFrog|W`rkn: will it recursively build dependencies too if you ask for... oh *sweet*!
14:33
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
You have the choice of an interactive curses frontend ('lunar') which gives you the usual browseable list of packages and so forth, or the individual tools 'lin', 'lrm', and so forth.
14:34
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Also comes with a curses-based network configurator, lnet.
14:34
< Reiver>
Is it GUI-capable?
14:34
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Reiver: yes, it just doesn't install such things by default.
14:34
< Reiver>
hm
14:35
< Reiver>
Is it GUI-easy?
14:35
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Basically, the installer gives you a system with some basic services (SSH, etc) and configuration tools.
14:35
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Then you go, say, 'lin xorg-x11 gnome gdm'
14:35
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(and, if you're building it on a Celeron, come back the next day)
14:35
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
And you have a gUI.
14:36
< Reiver>
...eep.
14:36 * Reiver ponders that.
14:36
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Remember it builds all this stuff from source.
14:36
< Reiver>
Is it SATA2 capable? ¬¬
14:36
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
So, ++configurability and ++optimization, but installs can take a long time.
14:36
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
SATA2 support is in the kernel last I checked.
14:36
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
And it has the latest kernels.
14:36
< Reiver>
(Source is good, no? I've had a hell of a time finding decent distro repositories.)
14:37
< Reiver>
(Er, I mean, when apt-get failed me in Ubuntu.)
14:37
<@Vornicus>
Source is good in that it's tuned to your specific architecture and stuff.
14:37
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(it's easier to find RPMs and stuff, but yes, source has the material)
14:37
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Vornicus: I find that source also has a better selection, because you don't need people to build it first.
14:37
<@Vornicus>
that too.
14:37
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
This is especially true on lesser-used architectures.
14:37
< Reiver>
(Aaaand I sort of start to figure that y'know if I'm going to be doing the Linux thing, it'd be nice to either go all-GUI or have to do commandline properly, the whole apt-get thing sort of felt a bit half-assed.)
14:38
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(I note that Ubuntu has a graphical frontend to it)
14:38
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(Which I use, because apt-get's interface needs to die in a fire)
14:38
< Reiver>
(I note that the apt-get frontend sucked fat hairy trucker milkman balls on a hot day in texas.)
14:38
< Reiver>
(And/or I couldn't use it to save myself and ended up doing it commandline because it made sense, but.)
14:39 GeekSoldier|Work is now known as GeekSoldier
14:39
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(there's two frontends. One sucks, one is good.)
14:39
< Reiver>
(It appears I was using the wrong one then~)
14:39 * Vornicus uses the command line a lot.
14:39
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(specifically, "add/remove software" is useless, "administration->synaptic package manager" is good)
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14:39
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Vornicus: on Fedora, I use the command line a lot, because Yum has a good interface.
14:39
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
However, using apt-get directly is only marginally more fun than being kicked in the balls.
14:39
<@Vornicus>
but my most-used command is "open" which says "let the shell figure out what application to open this file in"
14:40
<@Vornicus>
ugh.
14:40
<@Vornicus>
I hate apt-get. On commandline I usually use aptitude to do that.
14:40
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
I hate aptitude too!
14:40
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Indeed, I may hate it even more than apt-get.
14:40
<@Vornicus>
heh
14:40
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Because it's no more useful, but it takes longer for you to figure that out.
14:40
<@Vornicus>
heh
14:41
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
...oh, sweet
14:41
<@Vornicus>
???
14:41
< Reiver>
... apt-get seemed okay.
14:41
< Reiver>
Well, when it worked.
14:41
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
If you remove a package that's a feature-dependency for other packages, it doesn't remove the others.
14:41
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
It recompiles them without that feature.
14:41
< Reiver>
Which now that I think about it was about a 50/50 chance.
14:41
< Reiver>
But.
14:41
<@Vornicus>
/wicked/
14:41
< Reiver>
TF: So in other words this whole shebang was The Way It Should Have Been All Along?
14:41
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
...also, the command for excluding a package from installation is 'exile'
14:42
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
As in 'lunar exile thepackage'
14:42
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Which I find inexplicably amusing.
14:44
< GeekSoldier>
Lunar sounds like it could be teh win.
14:44
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Crisis! We have no bagels.
14:46
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
GeekSoldier: so far, it is.
14:47
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
We'll see how it handles the capture card and fbtv.
14:48
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Oh yes. It also installs nicely if you don't have a CD drive, although the means of doing so are not immediately obvious.
14:54
<@Vornicus>
...oh god.
14:54
<@Vornicus>
lolcode.
14:54
< GeekSoldier>
you saw that too, Vorn?
14:54
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
?
14:54
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Link
14:55
< GeekSoldier>
I was thinking that the increment operator should be MOAR
14:55
<@Vornicus>
http://lolcode.com/
14:57
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
...ifelse is "AWSUM THX" and "O NOES"
14:57 * ToxicFrog|W`rkn giggles uncontrollably at this
14:58
< Reiver>
...If this programming language is valid, I must learn it
14:58
< Reiver>
And use it for my assignments.
14:58
< Reiver>
If only for the look on my lecturers faces when they check the source code. ¬¬
14:59
<@Serah>
:\
15:00
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
I don't think there's a terp yet.
15:01
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Wouldn't be hard to write one in Lua, though~
15:22
<@Serah>
'http://www.gorillasushi.com/?q=node/396
15:26 Reiver is now known as ReivZzz
16:46
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
...oh god DAMMIT
16:46
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
So, it's mapping line.H to line.h
16:46
<@Vornicus>
what is this madness?
16:47
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
This means it maps thus: buf_line.Has_trailing_LF => buf_line.has_trailing_LF
16:47
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Vornicus: we are moving those parts of our build system that are still on windows, to Linux.
16:47
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
This means all kinds of nasty case-sensitivity issues are showing up.
16:48
<@Vornicus>
16:48
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
I have written a bash script to fix this automatically.
16:48
<@Vornicus>
mass insanity
16:48
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
However, it's catching some things that aren't the badger.
16:48
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Perhaps I should | grep include
16:48
<@Vornicus>
perhas.
16:49
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
(I could just have it show me the diff and ask for a yea/nay, but that takes too much effort)
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
The script in action!
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
ben@ben-desktop:~/src/scorpius/legacy$ ~/fix-includes
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
Found stored header list
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[OPEN] ./authenticator/RADIUS_attributes_manager.cpp
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[EDIT] -#include <Errno.h> // TCP Error number definitions
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[EDIT] +#include <errno.h> // TCP Error number definitions
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[EDIT] -#include <Radius_attributes_manager.hpp>
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[EDIT] +#include <RADIUS_attributes_manager.hpp>
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[AMBG] ./authenticator/Realm_connection.cpp Auth.h -> auth.h Auth.h
17:07
<@ToxicFrog|W`rkn>
[AMBG] ./authenticator/Realm_certificate.cpp Auth.h -> auth.h Auth.h
17:14 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
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18:35
< black>
hi ^^
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--- Log closed Wed May 30 00:00:31 2007
code logs -> 2007 -> Tue, 29 May 2007< code.20070528.log - code.20070530.log >