| --- Log opened Sun Mar 18 00:00:51 2007 |
| 00:18 | | MahalAFK is now known as Mahal |
| 00:27 | | Syloq [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 00:33 | | Mahal is now known as MahalAFK |
| 00:43 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, that was easy. |
| 00:44 | < AnnoDomini> | Syloq has been summoned, I see. |
| 00:46 | | Reiver is now known as ReivFeildtrip |
| 02:18 | | Mischief-MIA [~Mischief@Nightstar-23604.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 02:18 | < Mischief-MIA> | Code, I face a dilemma |
| 02:41 | | Syloq is now known as Syloqs-AFH |
| 03:11 | | MahalAFK is now known as Mahal |
| 03:31 | | * Mischief-MIA installs VMWare Ubuntu |
| 03:32 | < Mischief-MIA> | BLAST |
| 03:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | ? |
| 03:32 | < Mischief-MIA> | I can't install VMWare Player, because VMWare Server is installed? |
| 03:32 | < Mischief-MIA> | Other way around |
| 03:33 | < Mischief-MIA> | I can't install VMWare Server, because VMWare Player is installed? |
| 03:35 | | Mischief-MIA is now known as Mischief |
| 03:48 | <@Vornicus> | woot, rake is doing its job! |
| 03:50 | < Mischief> | Raking? |
| 03:51 | <@Vornicus> | Something like that. |
| 03:55 | | * ToxicFrog kills C++ right in the goddamn face |
| 03:55 | <@ToxicFrog> | WHERE ARE MY FIRST-CLASS CLASSES |
| 03:55 | | Forjeh [~Forj@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Gone] |
| 03:56 | <@McMartin> | You'll have to implement those yourself. |
| 03:56 | <@McMartin> | We can't have a Class class. |
| 03:56 | <@McMartin> | That would imply a *gasp* Object class! |
| 03:56 | <@McMartin> | (horrible scream of NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO from AT&T's headquarters) |
| 03:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | Snrk. |
| 03:56 | <@ToxicFrog> | I guess this is the reason we have WhateverFactory classes. |
| 03:57 | <@McMartin> | I still haven't heard a coherent justification for why having an "Object" class is bad design. |
| 03:57 | <@McMartin> | Other than "C++ doesn't, C++ is the only world I know" |
| 03:57 | <@McMartin> | Which, while coherent, is wrong~ |
| 03:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Too true. |
| 03:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | Hmm. |
| 03:57 | <@ToxicFrog> | I wonder if I can pass in a static class. |
| 03:58 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, rather, a class with static methods. |
| 03:58 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: ooooh, oooh, I know! |
| 03:59 | <@ToxicFrog> | No, because that breaks the fuck out of virtuals. |
| 03:59 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: "Prolog doesn't have OOP at all, Prolog is all I know. Therefore *everything* OO is evil." |
| 03:59 | | * ToxicFrog douses MCV liberally in kerosene and sets him alight |
| 03:59 | < MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: while no more valid, that would be at the very least a more amusing fallacious justification. |
| 04:00 | < MyCatVerbs> | Ohnoes, my precious flammable epidermis! *burns* |
| 04:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | C++ at least has the excuse that it's bolted onto C. Insofar as that's an excuse. |
| 04:04 | <@ToxicFrog> | Java, however, has no excuse whatsoever. |
| 04:05 | <@McMartin> | Java has has getClass() and the Class.* methods, which provide similar capabilities. |
| 04:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Well, I meant more for Object. |
| 04:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Which it has, but doesn't use consistently. |
| 04:08 | <@ToxicFrog> | As far as the ability to pass classes around as values goes, I've never tried to do that in Java. |
| 04:09 | < Mischief> | I don't know C++! |
| 04:09 | < Mischief> | I only know VC++! |
| 04:09 | < Mischief> | *Joke here* |
| 04:09 | | * Janus shoots it on sight. |
| 04:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | I would correct you, but I can no longer be arsed to tell when you're wrong and when you're pretending to be wrong. |
| 04:12 | < Mischief> | Me? |
| 04:19 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.36.ns-26407] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 04:20 | <@ToxicFrog> | Yes. |
| 04:20 | | Serah [~Z@87.72.36.ns-26407] has joined #Code |
| 04:21 | | * Vornicus <3 first-class classes and functions.. |
| 04:23 | | * Serah <3's Vorn. ^_^ |
| 04:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | First-class everything is win. |
| 04:24 | <@ToxicFrog> | And I keep wanting to pass in a class, which the callee can then instantiate as needed. |
| 04:24 | < Mischief> | Has anyone used VMware before? |
| 04:41 | < Mischief> | Nevermind |
| 04:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | Mischief: that would probably be a no. |
| 04:45 | <@ToxicFrog> | Personally, my approach would be to grab the Damn Small Linux hosted install and then do a brain transplant on it. |
| 04:46 | <@ToxicFrog> | Or, you know, use the Ubuntu liveCD that exists for the purpose of trying it out without installing it. |
| 05:04 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: *collapse*] |
| 05:04 | | Mahal is now known as MahalWOrk |
| 05:09 | < Mischief> | Uh, Toxic |
| 05:10 | < Mischief> | Let me just burn the LiveCD on a cd I don't have, bring it over to my jolly ol' laptop, and insert it into the CD drive that doesn't work. :P |
| 05:10 | < Mischief> | Damn Small Linux sucks for HDD install, Idly |
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| 05:42 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyOut |
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| 05:54 | | ReivFeildtrip is now known as Reiver |
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| 06:12 | | Mischief is now known as Mischief_On_Fire |
| 06:25 | <@Vornicus> | http://pastie.caboo.se/47715 see, it does cute things |
| 06:25 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | ... |
| 06:25 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Is it possible to run a Virtual Hard Drive outside of an OS? |
| 06:25 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Like to BOOT from it? |
| 06:26 | < Reiver> | Virtual Hard Drive being, specifically? |
| 06:26 | <@Vornicus> | No. /boot must be on a real drive with a real location with a filesystem that's really, really simple. |
| 06:26 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Nono, Vorn |
| 06:26 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | It's an F3 filesystem for Linux, but I want Bios to RUN the Virtual HDD |
| 06:27 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Perhaps mount it, then execute it through the boot system? |
| 06:27 | <@Vornicus> | ... |
| 06:27 | <@Vornicus> | No. /boot must be on a real drive with a real location with a filesystem that's really, really simple. |
| 06:27 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | That means nothing to me. |
| 06:27 | <@Vornicus> | What part of this went over your head? |
| 06:27 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | All of it. |
| 06:27 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Boot is ALWAYS on a physical drive |
| 06:27 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | That's stupideasy |
| 06:28 | <@Vornicus> | So, how do you tell where boot is? |
| 06:28 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | But I mean, I want BOOT to run the virtual hard drive, which would be done by specificing the HDD |
| 06:28 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | It's at the root of your boot drive, which is most commonly the C:\ drive. |
| 06:28 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Or partition 0 |
| 06:29 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | What I'm talking about is mounting a Virtual Hard Drive so the computer thinks it's a valid partition. Then telling the boot.ini to boot Linux from said partition which is linked to said virtual drive. |
| 06:29 | <@Vornicus> | ah, look up LVM |
| 06:29 | <@Vornicus> | It does that. |
| 06:30 | | * Mischief_On_Fire does so. |
| 06:30 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Thanks. |
| 06:30 | <@Vornicus> | But probably not the way you expect. |
| 06:30 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-4364.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 06:32 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | I only have LDM |
| 06:32 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | I'm on Windows. |
| 06:33 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | And I can't mount virtual drives with LDM, and a similiar problem with Daemon tools is that once the Physical drive is reset, and booting on BIOS, the mount becomes inactive. |
| 06:33 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | So the computer much think it's a whole other Disk Drive. |
| 06:33 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | must* |
| 06:33 | < Mischief_On_Fire> | Even Out of OS |
| 06:35 | | Mischief_On_Fire is now known as Mischief |
| 07:47 | < GeekSoldier> | Any Python users here? |
| 07:48 | | * Vornicus is! |
| 07:49 | <@Vornicus> | also I know McM and Chalain and jerith and Chalcy and Reiver work in Python. But, I'm here. |
| 07:49 | <@Vornicus> | (also I like to think I know more about it than the rest of these mooks except Chalain) |
| 07:49 | < GeekSoldier> | Quick non-working-brain question, then: |
| 07:49 | | * Vornicus shifts gears from Ruby. |
| 07:50 | < GeekSoldier> | I am in a strange funk that I cannot even comprehend now. |
| 07:50 | < GeekSoldier> | how would I get a user-inputed list of numbers? |
| 07:51 | <@Vornicus> | All on one line, or one line at a time? |
| 07:52 | < GeekSoldier> | one at a time |
| 07:53 | < Reiver> | (You would probably be right, Vorn. :p) |
| 07:53 | <@Vornicus> | (I don't know about McM and jerith0 |
| 07:53 | < GeekSoldier> | I initialized an empty, then did array[i] = input() |
| 07:53 | <@Vornicus> | use raw_input, wrap it in a while loop, and explicitly turn it into an int. |
| 07:53 | <@Vornicus> | if you can't it'll throw, so use the exception to break the loop. |
| 07:55 | <@Vornicus> | and I have spilled ramen on myself. |
| 07:57 | < GeekSoldier> | bummer about the ramen. |
| 07:57 | | * McMartin notes, before going to sleep, that Vorn and he probably beat each other at each other's respective problem domains |
| 07:57 | <@Vornicus> | Probably. |
| 07:57 | <@McMartin> | Vorn almost certainly knows the libraries better, though. |
| 07:58 | <@McMartin> | I may have better skill making the same script play nice with Win32 and Linux. |
| 07:58 | <@McMartin> | For Sinister Algorithmic Stunts, language is irrelevant. |
| 07:58 | <@Vornicus> | That like Stupid Code Tricks? |
| 07:58 | <@McMartin> | Yeah, just an octave higher, if you will |
| 07:59 | | * McMartin also has a certain tendency, IHRC, to abuse comprehensions more. |
| 07:59 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 08:00 | <@McMartin> | I have no idea how our uses of classes stack up. Python classes are weird. |
| 08:02 | <@Vornicus> | Anyway. |
| 08:02 | < GeekSoldier> | I'm getting an index out of range error... |
| 08:03 | | * GeekSoldier is rather... non-optimal this morning. |
| 08:04 | <@McMartin> | |
| 08:04 | <@McMartin> | "gnat" is "tang" backwards. |
| 08:04 | <@McMartin> | "gnat" is also "tang" rot13ed. |
| 08:04 | < GeekSoldier> | that is indeed true. |
| 08:04 | <@McMartin> | Other fun facts: "vex" and "irk" are rot13s of one another. |
| 08:05 | <@Vornicus> | GeekSoldier: use list.append instead of indexing into the array. |
| 08:05 | < GeekSoldier> | Wow... the second phrase makes that so much more profound! |
| 08:05 | <@Vornicus> | McM: shiny |
| 08:05 | | * GeekSoldier facepalms. |
| 08:05 | <@McMartin> | And the coolest one this guy's script found: "nowhere" <=> "abjurer" |
| 08:06 | <@McMartin> | http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/008772.html |
| 08:06 | < GeekSoldier> | that worked... |
| 08:07 | | * GeekSoldier needs to seriously wake up. |
| 08:07 | < GeekSoldier> | Thanks, Vorn. |
| 08:07 | | ChalcyLaptop [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 08:08 | | ChalcyLaptop is now known as Forj |
| 08:08 | <@jerith> | Vorn: I'm fluent enough to write idiomatic code, but I am not well versed in some of the subtleties. |
| 08:08 | <@jerith> | Mostly because it's a minority language for me at the moment. |
| 08:08 | < GeekSoldier> | Morning, jerith. |
| 08:09 | <@McMartin> | And I've only written one Major Python Application. |
| 08:09 | <@jerith> | Hey GS, everyone. |
| 08:09 | <@McMartin> | The rest is mostly Replacement Perl |
| 08:09 | <@jerith> | My current focus is Java/Ruby at work. |
| 08:09 | <@jerith> | And Erlang in my own time. |
| 08:10 | <@jerith> | Although I'm still hacking a bit on a vim->python regex translator. |
| 08:10 | <@McMartin> | My Java is Really Quite Good, but it's also rather 1.4 specific. |
| 08:10 | <@jerith> | As the first step in making pygments (a Python syntax highlighting library) grok vim syntax files. |
| 08:11 | <@jerith> | I'd rank my Java below my Python and Ruby. I still tend to treat it more as C. |
| 08:11 | < Reiver> | And Python for me is 'I know how to read it, but damn if I don't get even the syntax wrong without looking it up'. |
| 08:12 | | * Reiver shrugs. He's still learnin'. |
| 08:13 | <@Vornicus> | getting the syntax wrong - I tend to spend 20 minutes after I 'finish' a first iteration of a script just hunting down all the stupid bits where i can't type. |
| 08:13 | < Mischief> | I'm having fun! How many of you know about Ghosting? |
| 08:13 | | * Reiver grins, nods at Vorn |
| 08:13 | < Reiver> | I'm... much the same. |
| 08:13 | <@Vornicus> | dd | ssh dd |
| 08:13 | < Reiver> | Often in bits where it's "Oh, right, /that/ bit". |
| 08:15 | <@Vornicus> | (yes, this works.) |
| 08:15 | <@Vornicus> | (you have to fill in the syntax, but it works) |
| 08:16 | <@jerith> | I've used that. |
| 08:17 | <@Vornicus> | I learned it from you. |
| 08:17 | <@jerith> | dd if=/dev/sda1 | ssh root@host dd of=/dev/sda1 |
| 08:17 | <@jerith> | For suitable replacements of host and sda1. |
| 08:18 | <@jerith> | And you may want to fiddle with block size. |
| 08:19 | < Mischief> | I take that as a "No" |
| 08:19 | <@McMartin> | Mischief: ... Vorn and Jerith just answered your question in full |
| 08:20 | <@Vornicus> | We don't need no steenking Norton Ghost, we know how to do this with /standard unix tools/ |
| 08:21 | < Mischief> | ..... |
| 08:21 | < Mischief> | Not talking |
| 08:21 | < Mischief> | Abot Norton Ghost |
| 08:21 | < Mischief> | Sorry, Netboot on laptop, had to plug in REALLY quick |
| 08:22 | <@jerith> | You can also do it with tar if the filesystems are different sizes. |
| 08:22 | <@jerith> | Or you want different filesystems. |
| 08:22 | <@Vornicus> | hee |
| 08:22 | < Mischief> | I'm talking about Ghosting Software |
| 08:23 | <@Vornicus> | What do you mean by "ghosting" software if you don't mean something with which you make a copy of a drive? |
| 08:23 | < Mischief> | Crud, I need a decent Floppy disk. >_< I hate how they become corrupt |
| 08:23 | < Mischief> | I mean transferring files out of an OS to another computer remotely |
| 08:24 | <@jerith> | That's what we did. |
| 08:24 | < Mischief> | Anyone know how to make Floppy Disks become uncorrupt? =P |
| 08:24 | <@Vornicus> | DOn't use them. |
| 08:24 | <@jerith> | Assuming you want to copy a whole partition at a time. |
| 08:24 | < Reiver> | Get a USB stick. :) |
| 08:24 | <@jerith> | Also, use USB flash drives. |
| 08:24 | < Mischief> | Laptop doesn't support USB boots :) |
| 08:24 | <@jerith> | Ah, boot. |
| 08:25 | < Mischief> | The Disk drive Is BURNT |
| 08:25 | <@jerith> | CD? |
| 08:25 | < Mischief> | The lens is dead |
| 08:25 | <@Vornicus> | You can set your bios to boot from USB. |
| 08:25 | < Mischief> | Actuallyt |
| 08:25 | <@jerith> | :-( |
| 08:25 | < Mischief> | You can't. |
| 08:25 | <@jerith> | Vorn: a lot of mobos don't do that. |
| 08:25 | <@Vornicus> | jerith: bah |
| 08:25 | < Reiver> | You can if you hand-code the BIOS~ |
| 08:25 | < Mischief> | I'm actually an expert at ghosting |
| 08:25 | | * jerith ponders. |
| 08:26 | < Mischief> | The problem is, these bloody floppys |
| 08:26 | <@jerith> | Hard drive with a bootloader that supports PXE? |
| 08:26 | < Mischief> | Sectors in 54-58 portion of the disk are broken |
| 08:26 | < Mischief> | It's a Laptop Hard Drive, I can't play with it on anything else. |
| 08:26 | <@Vornicus> | I think the last time I met two computers that could share floppies was 1995. |
| 08:27 | <@jerith> | Methinks it's time for a new laptop... |
| 08:27 | <@Vornicus> | Simply because floppy drives are so often unmitigated crap. |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | Hell no |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | >_>; |
| 08:27 | < Reiver> | Vorn: Pfff |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | This Laptop is High-powered |
| 08:27 | < Reiver> | I've used them as recently as 2001! |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | 128 MBs of Video Ram, 512 Physical Ram |
| 08:27 | <@Vornicus> | This laptop is /fucked/ |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | 2.0 GHz |
| 08:27 | < Reiver> | Mischeif: If it's high powered, then why is it so fucked? |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | Because, I use it. |
| 08:27 | < Mischief> | =P |
| 08:27 | <@jerith> | Replace the hd and cdrom? |
| 08:28 | < Reiver> | Speaks volumes, huh? |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | Why? |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | the HD works |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | the CD rom is worht 200 USD |
| 08:28 | <@Vornicus> | And broken. |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | The lens is burnt out |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | It's not broken |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | o.o; |
| 08:28 | <@Vornicus> | yes. Broken. |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | The Hard Drive works. |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | o.o; |
| 08:28 | < Reiver> | Burned out lens = broken. |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | I'm talking about the Hard Drive. |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | Keep on target you two. |
| 08:28 | <@jerith> | But it's broken over the bits that let it boot? |
| 08:28 | < Mischief> | It's not. O-o; |
| 08:29 | <@jerith> | Oh, then you must have been talking about the floppy drive above. |
| 08:29 | < Mischief> | The only thing broken on the whole Laptop is the CD Drive |
| 08:29 | < Mischief> | Because of Nero |
| 08:29 | < Mischief> | Which burned out the lens, fucking program >_>; |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | So you are trying to Ghost things and fail because...? |
| 08:29 | < Mischief> | The floppy disks are shitty. |
| 08:30 | < Mischief> | Floppy disks become corrupt over time. |
| 08:30 | < Mischief> | Because: They are Pieces of CRAP |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | So get new ones? -.^ |
| 08:30 | < Mischief> | I would... |
| 08:30 | < Mischief> | Except two problems |
| 08:30 | < Mischief> | No computer stores in a 125 mile radius |
| 08:30 | < Mischief> | And I only have two floppys here |
| 08:30 | <@jerith> | Often the drive is bad which breaks the diskc. |
| 08:31 | < Mischief> | Sector 1-12/100 are broken n one disk. Sector 54-47/100 on another |
| 08:31 | < Mischief> | But I can use them still XP |
| 08:31 | < Reiver> | If they don't work, then no you can't. |
| 08:31 | < Mischief> | I told you again. |
| 08:31 | < Mischief> | SECTORS. |
| 08:32 | < Mischief> | Only PARTs of the disks are broken |
| 08:32 | | * Reiver sighs. |
| 08:32 | < Mischief> | If I couldn't use them, then I wouldn't be on netboot. |
| 08:32 | < Reiver> | So, you just told us that you can use them. |
| 08:32 | <@jerith> | With *any* magnetic media, the first bad sector is the start of a rapid decline. |
| 08:32 | < Reiver> | But can't use them with Ghost? |
| 08:32 | < Mischief> | I just need one disk with all the files and I can ghost properluy |
| 08:33 | < Mischief> | Right now, I can't do crap because the sectors NETH.msg and NET.MSG are on are broken. |
| 08:34 | <@jerith> | Methinks you're out of luck. |
| 08:34 | < Mischief> | I'm trying something else |
| 08:34 | < Mischief> | don't think it'll work though |
| 08:34 | < Mischief> | I'm going to install Netboot to both disks. |
| 08:35 | < Mischief> | So far, I've been able to partition a Primary DOS sector of 2GB, and format it |
| 08:35 | < Mischief> | I just need to establish a connection to my network, and I can A:\copy H:\Ubuntu\*.* C:\ |
| 08:35 | < Mischief> | Restart |
| 08:36 | < Mischief> | And install Ubuntu |
| 08:36 | <@jerith> | You can install Ubuntu from DOS? |
| 08:36 | < Mischief> | Yes, with Ghost |
| 08:36 | < Mischief> | I'm that amazing. :P |
| 08:37 | <@jerith> | Oh. |
| 08:37 | <@jerith> | Then you don't need my help. |
| 08:37 | | * jerith wanders off for breakfast. |
| 08:37 | < Mischief> | This may work |
| 08:38 | < Mischief> | Working.. Working... |
| 08:38 | < Mischief> | IT WORKED! HAHAH! |
| 08:39 | < Mischief> | Out of luck. :P PSh, I can find a solution for anything. |
| 08:40 | < Mischief> | Except AIDs. |
| 08:40 | | mode/#code [+b *!Mischief@*.hsd1.md.comcast.net] by Vornicus |
| 08:40 | | Mischief was kicked from #code by Vornicus [You have /no/ idea how much you get on my nerves, do you.] |
| 08:40 | <@Vornicus> | That felt good. |
| 08:41 | | * Reiver gives Vorn a cookie. |
| 08:41 | | * Vornicus nrom |
| 08:42 | | mode/#code [+oooooo AnnoDomini EvilDarkLord Forj GeekSoldier Reiver Serah] by Vornicus |
| 08:42 | | mode/#code [+oov MyCatVerbs TheWatcher[afk] KarmaBot] by Vornicus |
| 08:42 | <@Reiver> | Collect the whole set! |
| 08:43 | <@Vornicus> | indeed |
| 08:44 | <@Vornicus> | Anyway. |
| 08:44 | <@Reiver> | So anyhow. Python and refactoring. I was wondering, uh, y'know all those indentations and stuff. |
| 08:44 | <@Vornicus> | Copy constructors? |
| 08:45 | <@jerith> | Yes? |
| 08:45 | <@Reiver> | If you want to pull a block of code out of something and turn it into a function, you have to be careful just how much of the preceeding indentation remains, right? |
| 08:45 | <@Reiver> | *origional |
| 08:45 | <@Reiver> | I mean, it might've been inside a loop, or something, and now be seperate. Meaning you now have more whitespace than origionally. |
| 08:46 | | * jerith nods. |
| 08:46 | <@jerith> | *original(ly) |
| 08:47 | <@Reiver> | It's always been the bit that bothered me with Python, a bit. Normal code langauges don't have the problem, because as long as you only factored out the right bits and the right set of Brackets(tm), the code will read fine, and indeed, frequently automagically fix the whitespace after anyway. |
| 08:47 | <@Reiver> | But in Python... what do you do? |
| 08:47 | <@Vornicus> | /\.[^.]*?$/ <-- <3 regex |
| 08:47 | <@Reiver> | Go through and check it's all indented the right amount by hand? Drop the indentations if it's not? |
| 08:47 | <@Reiver> | ...? |
| 08:47 | <@Vornicus> | in Python, you use your editor's entab and unentab buttons. |
| 08:47 | <@Vornicus> | (get the extension on a filename) |
| 08:48 | <@jerith> | A good editor will fix the indentation for you. |
| 08:48 | <@Reiver> | (nice) |
| 08:48 | <@Reiver> | jerith: What would constitute a good Python editor? |
| 08:48 | <@jerith> | Select the chunk of code and detab. |
| 08:48 | <@jerith> | Emacs? Vim? |
| 08:48 | <@jerith> | I haven't liked any of the IDEs. |
| 08:49 | <@Vornicus> | IDLE is halfway decent; also try SciTE |
| 08:49 | <@Reiver> | IDLE ticks me off. |
| 08:49 | <@Reiver> | No sidescroll bar. >.> |
| 08:49 | <@jerith> | ... |
| 08:49 | <@Reiver> | Makes long lines annoying. :p |
| 08:49 | <@jerith> | Lines that long should be split. |
| 08:49 | <@Vornicus> | You want code folding, tab stop highlighting, and an entab/detab command. |
| 08:50 | <@jerith> | I don't like folding. |
| 08:50 | <@Reiver> | jerith: This line was nessisarily verbose. |
| 08:50 | <@Vornicus> | I like folding. |
| 08:50 | <@Reiver> | Vorn: Folding being where you can compress a Big Chunk so it's outta the road? |
| 08:51 | <@jerith> | *necessarily |
| 08:51 | <@jerith> | (Sorry, I'm in spelling pedant mode this morning for some reason.) |
| 08:51 | <@Reiver> | jerith, are you being a pedant for a reason? :p |
| 08:51 | <@Vornicus> | Eclipse threw me off when I was working in Ruby with it - it was overaggressive with parsing, and if you didn't have valid syntax it would reset all your folding. |
| 08:51 | <@jerith> | (Also, you hit the two mistakes I used to make all the time.) |
| 08:53 | <@jerith> | I have fou4~nd Eclipse to be insanely handy for Java and pretty useless for anything more dynamic. |
| 08:58 | | Forj [~Chalcedon@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:58 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 08:59 | | mode/#code [+o Forj] by Vornicus |
| 08:59 | | Forj is now known as NSGuest-1022 |
| 09:00 | <@Reiver> | Too designed for a restrictive langauge, and barfing at things more Creative? |
| 09:00 | <@jerith> | Apparently my pedantry broke #code. Sorry. :-/ |
| 09:00 | <@Vornicus> | Eclipse has a lot of heavy duty analysis tools in it. |
| 09:00 | <@Vornicus> | I mean, really heavy duty. |
| 09:00 | <@jerith> | Indeed. |
| 09:01 | <@Reiver> | .50cal vs mosquito heavy? |
| 09:01 | <@jerith> | That makes it great for a language where such static analysis is useful. |
| 09:01 | <@jerith> | However, the interface sucks somewhat. |
| 09:01 | <@Reiver> | But not only overkill, but also prone to more harm than good against others. |
| 09:01 | <@Vornicus> | Bazooka vs. Anything heavy. |
| 09:02 | <@jerith> | Reiver: They don't do any harm against other stuff that I've seen. |
| 09:03 | <@jerith> | But they're useless against Python/Ruby/whatever where you can't determine at compile-time what your types are. |
| 09:03 | <@jerith> | Or even what your types /are/. |
| 09:03 | <@jerith> | (Does the differenc make sense?) |
| 09:04 | <@jerith> | (The first is the type of a given variable, the second is what a type gives you in terms of methods and whatnot.) |
| 09:04 | <@Vornicus> | it does. |
| 09:04 | <@Vornicus> | Now that you clarify, anyway. |
| 09:04 | | * jerith nods. |
| 09:05 | <@Vornicus> | I would have said "or even what your types are /like/" |
| 09:05 | <@jerith> | It made sense when I wrote it, but not when I reread it. |
| 09:05 | | * Vornicus has done a lot of wackywacky stuff with Python and Ruby. |
| 09:06 | | * jerith is not sure he likes how people reopen classes all over the place. |
| 09:06 | <@Vornicus> | class Hash; def to_ps; (['<<'] + to_a.flatten.map {|k| k.to_ps} + ['>>']).join(' ');end; end |
| 09:06 | <@Vornicus> | Sometimes it is convenient. |
| 09:06 | <@jerith> | It's useful with base types so you can mess with literals. |
| 09:06 | <@jerith> | But I like my classes to all be in one place, dammit! |
| 09:07 | <@Vornicus> | I can write a thing into each class that knows how to represent objects of that type as a PostScript literal. |
| 09:08 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-12370.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 09:08 | | ChalcyOut is now known as Chalcedon |
| 09:08 | <@Vornicus> | One of the nice things is that if somebody makes a generic class and I don't think it has everything I want in it, I can add stuff. |
| 09:08 | <@jerith> | Vorn: I like the feature. I just wish there wasn't so much community pressure to use it. |
| 09:09 | <@jerith> | Or rather I wish there was community pressure not to use it unless it was required. |
| 09:09 | | NSGuest-1022 is now known as Forj |
| 09:09 | <@jerith> | Because you end up with spaghetti classes. |
| 09:11 | <@jerith> | Combine that with the lack of Python's self.foo for methods and I have no idea if a given function that's being called is ni my class or not. |
| 09:11 | <@Vornicus> | It's great for stuff like math classes. |
| 09:11 | <@Vornicus> | I get quite tired of saying self.foo |
| 09:11 | <@jerith> | So do I. |
| 09:12 | <@Vornicus> | It really makes classes feel tacked on. |
| 09:12 | <@jerith> | But I'd be quite happy with @foo or something. |
| 09:12 | <@Vornicus> | (that and the thrice-bedamned you-have-to-put-self-in-your-methods thing.) |
| 09:13 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. Scoping warts are something I like a lot. |
| 09:13 | <@jerith> | Although then you run into problems with method/field collisions. |
| 09:13 | <@jerith> | I hated them at first, now I like them. |
| 09:13 | <@jerith> | But part of that was the typing warts Perl and BASIC have. |
| 09:14 | <@Vornicus> | I dislike typing warts. |
| 09:14 | | * jerith nods. |
| 09:14 | <@jerith> | Scoping warts make a lot of sense. |
| 09:14 | | Mischief [~Mischief@Nightstar-23604.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 09:15 | <@jerith> | But I still keep getting bitten by method calls without parens. |
| 09:15 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. That I don't like. |
| 09:15 | <@jerith> | Because I kep trying to redesign the language to remove ugliness I've run into. |
| 09:15 | <@jerith> | *keep |
| 09:16 | <@jerith> | And then I realise it has to be that way because fracking method calls don't need parens. |
| 09:16 | < Mischief> | Fun. |
| 09:18 | | Mischief was kicked from #code by Vornicus [I thought I told you to go away.] |
| 09:18 | <@Vornicus> | And why is my banstick not working? |
| 09:18 | <@jerith> | Dunno. |
| 09:18 | | mode/#code [-b+b *!Mischief@*.hsd1.md.comcast.net *!*Mischief@*.hsd1.md.comcast.net] by Vornicus |
| 09:18 | <@Vornicus> | Too similar or something. I don't get it. |
| 09:20 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 09:20 | | * Vornicus fiddles with Rake, thinks he has it now. |
| 09:20 | <@jerith> | I keep *trying* to like Ruby as much as I like Python. But it keeps getting in the way. |
| 09:21 | <@Reiver> | What's it doin'? |
| 09:22 | <@jerith> | Mostly the methods-without-parens thing and its consequences. |
| 09:22 | <@Vornicus> | like, for instance, actually needing symbols. |
| 09:22 | <@jerith> | Sure, it's a useful thing to have in some situations. |
| 09:22 | <@Reiver> | I'm a bit puzzled what you mean by that. |
| 09:22 | <@Vornicus> | Reiver: have you used Ruby? |
| 09:22 | <@Reiver> | I played with it but lost interest, tbh |
| 09:22 | <@Reiver> | So 'no'. |
| 09:22 | <@Vornicus> | Math.sqrt 5 |
| 09:22 | <@Vornicus> | is legal Ruby. |
| 09:22 | <@Reiver> | .../ew/. |
| 09:23 | <@jerith> | But too often it leads to ambiguity and you need the parens anyway. |
| 09:23 | <@Reiver> | I know that it's an age-old Cism, but having parens is /good/ |
| 09:23 | <@Reiver> | For that sort of thing anyway. |
| 09:23 | <@Reiver> | (I often find myself wishing I could call some functions in Java without the (), but that's about it.) |
| 09:23 | <@jerith> | It's supposed to make things more readable or somesuch. |
| 09:24 | <@Vornicus> | now, for some things, it feels better. |
| 09:24 | <@Vornicus> | Properties. |
| 09:24 | <@Reiver> | ? |
| 09:24 | | * jerith nods. |
| 09:24 | <@jerith> | foo.count feels nicer than foo.count(). |
| 09:24 | <@Reiver> | Ah yes. |
| 09:24 | <@Reiver> | That's the bit in Java that annoyed me. |
| 09:24 | <@Reiver> | Esp. when it was, uh |
| 09:25 | <@jerith> | But you could go Delphi's route and make propertis an explicit syntactic sugar. |
| 09:25 | <@Vornicus> | Python has explicit properties, but you have to use new-style classes, which is also tacked on. |
| 09:25 | | * Reiver forgets the actual syntax, but something like Board.GetBoard().GetSquare(x,y) |
| 09:26 | <@Reiver> | What is with Python and classes? |
| 09:26 | <@Reiver> | (New-style?) |
| 09:26 | <@Vornicus> | a new-style class explicitly inherits from Object |
| 09:26 | <@Reiver> | And an old-style? :p |
| 09:26 | <@jerith> | If you want to get something outside the class in Ruby it needs to have and accessor methods anyway. |
| 09:27 | <@Vornicus> | Does not explicitly inherit from Object. |
| 09:27 | | * Reiver frowns. |
| 09:27 | <@Vornicus> | I don't really know all the distinctions. |
| 09:27 | <@jerith> | s/Object/object/ |
| 09:27 | <@Vornicus> | Well, okay, object. |
| 09:27 | | * jerith grins. |
| 09:27 | | * Reiver eyes. |
| 09:28 | <@jerith> | That's bitten me twice. |
| 09:28 | <@Reiver> | It's case-sensitive? |
| 09:28 | <@Reiver> | Ew. |
| 09:28 | <@jerith> | Python is case sensitive. |
| 09:28 | <@jerith> | All the languages I like are case sensitive. |
| 09:28 | <@jerith> | Even Lsip is selectively case sensitive... |
| 09:28 | <@jerith> | *Lisp |
| 09:29 | <@Reiver> | Yeah but |
| 09:29 | <@Reiver> | Why have your classes as lower-case? |
| 09:30 | <@jerith> | Just that one. |
| 09:30 | <@Vornicus> | There's a lot of wacky shit in Python's libraries. |
| 09:30 | <@Reiver> | |
| 09:30 | <@Reiver> | Why have that one lower case? |
| 09:30 | <@Vornicus> | But not as much as there is in Java's. |
| 09:31 | <@jerith> | Besides, unlike Ruby and Erlang, the capitalisation doesn't /mean/ anything. It jsut has to be consistent. |
| 09:31 | | * jerith refuses to comment on PHP's stdlib except to note that it is far, far worse. |
| 09:32 | <@Vornicus> | Ruby is kinda picky about capitalization. Though warnings about changing things that look constant are nice. |
| 09:33 | <@jerith> | I like Erlang's cap rules. |
| 09:33 | <@Vornicus> | I don't know Erlang's cap rules. |
| 09:33 | <@jerith> | Anything that starts with a capital is a variable, or "constant" as other languages would say. |
| 09:33 | | * Vornicus eyes. |
| 09:34 | <@jerith> | Anything that starts with lowercase is an atom, function or module. |
| 09:34 | <@jerith> | (You can bind functions to variables, of course.) |
| 09:35 | <@jerith> | In Erlang, once you bind a variable it's bound forever. (Or until it leaves scpoe and is GC'ed, whichever comes first.) |
| 09:35 | <@jerith> | *scope |
| 09:35 | <@Vornicus> | aha |
| 09:35 | <@Vornicus> | So it's Quite Functional |
| 09:35 | <@jerith> | Quite. |
| 09:36 | | Forjeh [~Forj@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 09:36 | <@jerith> | Whichh is what makes it so easy to upgrade running systems in-place. |
| 09:36 | <@jerith> | -h |
| 09:36 | | mode/#code [+io Forjeh] by Vornicus |
| 09:36 | | mode/#code [+o Thaqui] by Vornicus |
| 09:37 | | mode/#code [-i] by Vornicus |
| 09:37 | | * Vornicus wonders where that o came from. |
| 09:37 | <@Vornicus> | i. |
| 09:37 | <@Vornicus> | I can type, really. |
| 09:37 | <@GeekSoldier> | qwerty? |
| 09:37 | | Forjles [~Forj@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 09:37 | <@Vornicus> | /mode #code +o Forjeh Thaqui |
| 09:37 | <@GeekSoldier> | might be a case of ffs. |
| 09:37 | <@Vornicus> | is what I typed. |
| 09:37 | | Forj [~Forj@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 09:37 | <@GeekSoldier> | interesting. |
| 09:38 | | Forjles [~Forj@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 09:38 | | * Vornicus eyes the forjes on parade. |
| 09:39 | <@Vornicus> | Stop that, would you. |
| 09:39 | <@Reiver> | +i can be set on a user? |
| 09:39 | | * Reiver wonders what it does. |
| 09:39 | <@Vornicus> | Okay, I'm running out of brain. |
| 09:39 | <@jerith> | Autoinvite on user, perhaps? |
| 09:39 | <@Vornicus> | Reiver: no, it doesn't take a parameter. |
| 09:39 | <@Vornicus> | Though there is a umode +i; it makes you invisible. |
| 09:39 | <@jerith> | Ah. |
| 09:39 | <@jerith> | The autoinvite thing needs to be on chanserv anyway. |
| 09:39 | <@GeekSoldier> | Augh. |
| 09:39 | <@Reiver> | Yeah, but I didn't think we could set that for someone else. >.> |
| 09:40 | <@Vornicus> | I can. |
| 09:40 | <@Vornicus> | I don't know if you can. |
| 09:40 | | Forjeh [~Forj@Nightstar-3692.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 09:40 | | mode/#code [+si] by jerith |
| 09:40 | | mode/#code [-si] by jerith |
| 09:40 | <@jerith> | ... |
| 09:40 | <@Vornicus> | what was that command? |
| 09:40 | <@Vornicus> | I mean, if it wasn't entirely manifest in what I saw. |
| 09:40 | <@jerith> | /mode +i Vornicus |
| 09:40 | <@Vornicus> | yeah, no wo... oh. |
| 09:41 | <@Vornicus> | That's what happened. |
| 09:41 | <@Vornicus> | T h a q u are not cmodes. |
| 09:41 | <@GeekSoldier> | hehe. |
| 09:41 | <@jerith> | I think you wanted /mode +oo nick nick or something. |
| 09:41 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 09:42 | <@Vornicus> | I did. I just figured it would drop extra params on the floor. |
| 09:43 | <@Reiver> | Nah |
| 09:43 | <@Reiver> | It tries to parse it. |
| 09:43 | <@Reiver> | You would've typed +o Thaqui Forjeh, though. |
| 09:44 | <@Reiver> | ...No, your version was right. |
| 09:44 | | * Reiver has done some very interesting things when mistyping 'chalcy', he knows that much. |
| 09:45 | <@Vornicus> | I can't spell that without a reference. It's always "clahcy" or "clachy" or... |
| 09:45 | | * Reiver giggles. |
| 09:45 | <@Reiver> | Ch<tab>! |
| 09:45 | <@GeekSoldier> | hehe |
| 09:45 | <@Reiver> | I have to stop and think the rest of the time. >.> |
| 09:46 | <@Vornicus> | tab twice. Chalain's here too. |
| 09:47 | <@Vornicus> | :P |
| 09:47 | <@jerith> | Am I the only one who can spell Chalcy correctly? |
| 09:47 | <@Vornicus> | And my brain has oozed out my left nostril. I think it's time to go to bed. |
| 09:48 | <@jerith> | G'night Vorn. |
| 09:48 | <@Reiver> | niVorny! |
| 09:49 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 09:51 | <@GeekSoldier> | Goodnight, Vornicus. |
| 10:11 | <@Raif> | Vornicus no longer exists. |
| 10:12 | <@Raif> | There is only Vornicus-Latens, now. |
| 10:13 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29540.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 10:15 | | Raif [~corvusign@Nightstar-22484.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A trebuchet is not a marital aid. Many bothans died to bring us this information.] |
| 10:19 | <@Reiver> | !2^9 |
| 10:19 | <+KarmaBot> | [Reiver] 2^9 = 512. |
| 10:20 | <@Reiver> | Hrm. |
| 10:20 | <@Reiver> | That's... not many sylandro probes. ¬¬ |
| 10:21 | | Raif [~corvusign@Nightstar-22484.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #Code |
| 10:21 | | mode/#code [+o Raif] by ChanServ |
| 12:27 | | Thaqui [~Thaqui@Nightstar-12370.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has left #code [Leaving] |
| 12:52 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 14:22 | | MahalWOrk is now known as MahalBEDD |
| 15:08 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29540.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 15:44 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-4364.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:46 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-6973.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #code |
| 15:59 | | Derakon [~Derakon@Nightstar-12737.sea2.cablespeed.com] has joined #code |
| 16:30 | | GeekSoldier [~Rob@Nightstar-6973.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Relax, its only ONES and ZEROS!] |
| 18:08 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 18:26 | <@Vornicus> | Reiver: I think that's because each probe gets a reset TTL counter. |
| 18:28 | <@Vornicus> | What is it, 10 generations from each probe? |
| 18:30 | <@Vornicus> | ...heh, it stays so close to true binary that you can't tell the difference on a graph. |
| 18:35 | | Doctor_Nick [~fdsaf@Nightstar-27777.rag-a.fsu.edu] has joined #code |
| 18:43 | | Doctor_Nick [~fdsaf@Nightstar-27777.rag-a.fsu.edu] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 19:13 | | * Vornicus fiddles with his Rakefile. |
| 19:42 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:42 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 19:46 | | KBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-28888.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 19:47 | < KBot> | KarmaBot v1.19. online and ready. Type "!help commands" for command list. |
| 19:47 | | KarmaBot [~karma.bot@Nightstar-29540.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 19:47 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29540.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 19:47 | | KBot is now known as KarmaBot |
| 19:53 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-28888.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code |
| 20:04 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as Thokk |
| 20:06 | | AnnoDomini is now known as Kiers |
| 21:12 | | Derakon [~Derakon@Nightstar-12737.sea2.cablespeed.com] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 21:34 | | Derakon [~Derakon@Nightstar-12737.sea2.cablespeed.com] has joined #code |
| 21:38 | | gnolam [Lenin@Nightstar-13557.8.5.253.se.wasadata.net] has joined #Code |
| 21:47 | | * ToxicFrog eyes C++ |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | x is -1. |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | y is 72. |
| 21:47 | < Derakon> | How has it offended you this time? |
| 21:47 | <@ToxicFrog> | ( x < 0 || x >= w || y < 0 || y >= h ) is false. |
| 21:47 | < Derakon> | There must be something else going on, TF. |
| 21:47 | < Kiers> | More parens? |
| 21:49 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...and there is. |
| 21:49 | | * ToxicFrog removes some obsolete code from main() |
| 21:49 | < Derakon> | Heh. |
| 21:49 | < Derakon> | Kiers: parens wouldn't be the problem. C++ short-circuits boolean logic; as soon as it sees "x < 0" with x being -1, it's return true. |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | Getpx: mapping 408,418 |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | to 407,417 |
| 21:50 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's more like it. |
| 21:51 | <@ToxicFrog> | Except it still doesn't seem to be quite generating the output it should... |
| 21:54 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, wait, yes it is. |
| 22:12 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Code |
| 22:14 | <@Vornicus> | Ding |
| 22:14 | | * Vornicus gets his rakefile to do /magic/ |
| 22:14 | <@McMartin> | ... rakefiles? |
| 22:14 | <@McMartin> | What is this "rake"? You've mentioned it before |
| 22:16 | <@Vornicus> | rake is Make as done in Ruby. |
| 22:16 | <@Vornicus> | I just made a function that generates ghostscript file tasks from a template. |
| 22:17 | <@Vornicus> | mass_ps_generate 'SCALEFACTOR/terrain/TERRAIN.png', 'src/TERRAIN.ps', 'src/terrain.ps', 'src/base.ps', 'src/colors.ps' |
| 22:18 | <@Vornicus> | (generates 56 file tasks, and the directories for all the files to go into) |
| 22:24 | <@Vornicus> | gs -dSAFER -q -dBATCH -dNOPAUSE -sDEVICE=pngalpha -sOutputFile=4/terrain/ocean.png -dSCALEFACTOR=4 -dTERRAIN=/ocean src/ocean.ps # <--- one of the tasks it generates |
| 22:30 | | Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Jouets de Dieu, jouets de jouets, les jouets de me, na?tre Clair enfant voire.] |
| 22:36 | <@Vornicus> | http://vorn.dyndns.org/~vorn/catan-postscript.tgz <--- ruby, rake, and ghostscript required to use fully; run "rake" in the postscript folder to get it to go. |
| 22:39 | | Kiers is now known as AnnoDomini |
| 22:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | I should look into Rake sometime. |
| 22:41 | | * ToxicFrog arghs at idiots on the SupComm forums. |
| 22:41 | <@Vornicus> | The function I wrote is ugly and horribly, but man it makes my life easier. |
| 22:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | Some of this code looks like "well, I don't know anything about Lua, or programming, or modding, or computers, so I'm just going to open this file, pound randomly on the keyboard for five minutes, run the game, look at the log, go 'looks fine to me' when the last 5kb of log is nothing but error messages, and then past all of it in one long-ass post asking for help" |
| 22:42 | <@Vornicus> | sad. |
| 22:42 | <@ToxicFrog> | And then I try to help them, and it's deer-in-headlights time. |
| 22:44 | | Thokk is now known as EvilDarkLord |
| 23:03 | < Derakon> | As I said, if/when I release my own project, I'll need to set up a redirect somewhere on the site to lua.org. |
| 23:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | The thing here is, at the top of the forum, there is a large, obvious, bold-font sticky that says READ THIS BEFORE POSTING |
| 23:10 | <@ToxicFrog> | And it is full of links to information, including the lua reference manual, PiL, instructions on setting up the modding environment and packaging mods, etc. |
| 23:26 | <@Vornicus> | what's the most interesting mod you've seen so far? |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...hmm. Hard to say. |
| 23:29 | <@ToxicFrog> | Construction aircraft a la OTA, perhaps. |
| 23:31 | <@ToxicFrog> | The MegaMap mod, which turns your secondary monitor into a minimap, would probably be interesting if I had a second monitor for Durandal. |
| 23:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, I know. |
| 23:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Saya and Cleopatre's UI mod. |
| 23:32 | <@ToxicFrog> | Lets you resize and move around all the UI elements. |
| 23:32 | <@Vornicus> | sweet. |
| 23:33 | <@ToxicFrog> | (have I mentioned that this game is crazy moddable?) |
| 23:33 | | MahalBEDD is now known as Mahal |
| 23:34 | <@Vornicus> | I get that impression... |
| 23:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Anyways, S&C probably comes out on top because it works for everything, being a UI rather than a gameplay mod. |
| 23:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | But people have been doing some filthy awesome stuff. |
| 23:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's already a submersible base mod. |
| 23:35 | <@Vornicus> | sweeet |
| 23:35 | <@ToxicFrog> | Someone fixed the Czar so that it's actually a threat. |
| 23:36 | <@Vornicus> | I imagine that if GPG makes an official expansion they'll say "hey, man, can we use your mod?" a few times. |
| 23:36 | <@ToxicFrog> | There's a subsystem mod, which lets weapons get blasted off of units when they take damage and have to be repaired. |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | the Defence Energy mod, which adds energy costs when firing to all defensive emplacements a la OTA. |
| 23:37 | <@Vornicus> | And this game has been out, what, a month? |
| 23:37 | <@ToxicFrog> | One that adds air-to-surface missiles to interceptors. |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | The Annihilator deathbeam tower from OTA. |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | Nuclear artillery. |
| 23:38 | <@ToxicFrog> | No mass-fabs (one of mine). |
| 23:39 | <@ToxicFrog> | Someone else is working on shield generators where you lay down a perimeter of generators and the shield covers everything between them. |
| 23:39 | | * Vornicus needs this game ;_; |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | Oh, and there's a "pipe" mod that lets you build pipes to extend adjacency bonuses to non-adjacent buildings (at the cost of covering your base with pipework) |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | cloaked buildings and cloaking field generators (there's your Arbiter) |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | I'm working on one that will let you disable units for skirmish games a la OTA, but I suspect I'll need the extended mod API the next patch introduces to finish it. |
| 23:41 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yes, it's been out for about a month. |
| 23:44 | <@ToxicFrog> | And yes, you need this game. |
| 23:46 | | * Vornicus fiddles with PostScript, having brought his build process back into the realm of sanity. |
| 23:49 | <@Vornicus> | 20 more images... and unfortunately each one is special. No more single files that produce 18 images. |
| --- Log closed Mon Mar 19 00:00:51 2007 |