| --- Log opened Fri Mar 02 00:00:30 2007 |
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| 01:09 | | * Vornicus fiddles with bash, trying to figure out the right way to do this. |
| 01:14 | < MyCatVerbs> | This is Bourne shell scripting you're referring to here, Vorn. |
| 01:14 | < MyCatVerbs> | At least a third of the time, there *is* no right way. |
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| --- Log closed Fri Mar 02 12:54:37 2007 |
| --- Log opened Fri Mar 02 12:55:09 2007 |
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| 13:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | hey |
| 13:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | does anyone here have experience with 80186 assembly? |
| 14:00 | < Doctor_Nick> | alternatively: anyone over 40 here? ;) |
| 14:01 | < gnolam> | Mmm, the Compis. |
| 14:01 | <@CommanderFrog> | Doctor_Nick: I have done some 80x86 work. |
| 14:02 | <@CommanderFrog> | However, it's an evil nasty architecture which is to be avoided whenever possible. |
| 14:02 | < Doctor_Nick> | I know, I know |
| 14:02 | < Doctor_Nick> | but i havent a choice |
| 14:02 | < Doctor_Nick> | Im trying to disassemble a very old program that was written in C like 25 years ago |
| 14:03 | < Doctor_Nick> | what I want to know is, what did C compilers compile their code in back then? 8086 or something newer? |
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| 16:44 | <@jerith> | Doctor_Nick: Won't looking at the opcodes used help? |
| 16:45 | <@jerith> | Also, the 80186 (iirc) wasn't a PC architecture. Or at least, it wasn't released. |
| 16:45 | <@jerith> | So probably 8086 or 80286. |
| 16:46 | < MyCatStudies> | 80286 would be the bare-assed minimum. 8086 only has eight-bit words, with dwords used to memory access, whereas the 286 used sixteen bit words. |
| 16:47 | <@jerith> | Depends on whether the 286 was common back then. |
| 16:47 | <@jerith> | Anyways, my asm is limited to a handful of 8-bit microcontrollers. |
| 16:47 | <@jerith> | Of which the Atmel AVR is by far the nicest. |
| 16:53 | < MyCatStudies> | jerith: MIiiiiiiiips! |
| 16:54 | <@jerith> | Never done MISP. |
| 16:54 | <@jerith> | *MIPS. |
| 16:55 | <@jerith> | The 8051 is a bit dated and CISC always struck me as inelegant. |
| 16:55 | <@jerith> | PIC16 is just truly, truly horrible. |
| 16:56 | < MyCatStudies> | jerith: PIC14xx. Ugh. |
| 16:57 | <@jerith> | "Here's an idea! We only have an 8-bit RAM address bus, so lets msplit our RAM into pages and make people twiddle bits in a status register to switch. Oh, that means half our SFRs need to be mapped in all pages, so our 1k just got a lot smaller. Chicks will dig it!" |
| 16:58 | <@jerith> | You know what the standard solution to that is? Put a BANKSEL in front of every memory access. And hope the assembler is smart enough to strip it out if you're already in the right page. |
| 16:58 | <@jerith> | Then there's the 8-level function return stack. Nested more than 8 function calls deep? Here's a shovel. |
| 16:59 | <@jerith> | And that includes interrupt handlers. So the sum of your deepest call and your deepest interrupt handler can't be more than 8 or you're in trouble. |
| 17:02 | <@jerith> | Also, being an accumulater-based machine, it's difficult to target with an optimising C-compiler. And pretty much any compiler is going to have to reimplement function calls to get around the stack limit. |
| 17:12 | | MyCatStudies is now known as MyCatIsOut |
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| 17:40 | <@CommanderFrog> | Doctor_Nick: probably 80286 or 8086. |
| 17:40 | <@CommanderFrog> | In either case you should be able to feed it to IDA using the "metapc" architecture and have it work. |
| 18:29 | | * Vornicus writes a thing that finds the longest loopless path in an unweighted directed graph. |
| 18:31 | <@jerith> | A thing? |
| 18:32 | <@Vornicus> | a python script. |
| 18:35 | <@Vornicus> | http://vorn.dyndns.org/~vorn/graph_diameter.py <--- just run it. The numbers you see go by is the number of nodes it's visited, the number of items in the live queue, and the max length of things that terminate at the current node. The built in data is huge, some thousand nodes, and it gets to 179,500 nodes before finishing. |
| 18:35 | <@Vornicus> | Considering that the guy who posed the problem couldn't get it to work in under a gig of RAM, I think I did pretty well - this one doesn't cross 10MB. |
| 18:36 | | * jerith grins. |
| 18:36 | <@CommanderFrog> | Heh. |
| 18:36 | <@jerith> | Did I mention Amazon's hiring? |
| 18:36 | <@Vornicus> | heh. |
| 18:36 | <@CommanderFrog> | Where's the original post? |
| 18:37 | <@jerith> | And Cape Town's lovely this time of year... |
| 18:37 | <@Vornicus> | #python on Freenode. |
| 18:37 | <@CommanderFrog> | Aah. |
| 18:38 | <@Vornicus> | The algorithm is essentially backwards Dijkstra... |
| 18:39 | <@Vornicus> | except that in order to make sure I get the actual longest loopless path, I have to keep track of all the paths of maximum length to any given node. |
| 18:39 | <@Vornicus> | Otherwise, the already-chosen path precludes future paths that may in fact be longer. |
| 18:40 | <@Vornicus> | ...something is being very odd about the output, though. SOmething quite wrong. |
| 18:42 | <@Vornicus> | ...mmh. I don't know what the hell is wrong. I need a smaller dataset. |
| 18:45 | <@CommanderFrog> | ...oh sweet. |
| 18:46 | <@CommanderFrog> | SupComm puts each unit in one or more categories, right? |
| 18:46 | <@CommanderFrog> | And you can access a given category with categories.CAT_NAME, so categories.STRUCTURE is the set of all buildings. |
| 18:46 | <@CommanderFrog> | But! |
| 18:46 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 18:46 | <@CommanderFrog> | They have also implemented the set-union, set-difference and set-intersection options on them. |
| 18:47 | <@CommanderFrog> | So (categories.STRUCTURE - categories.WALL) is the set of all buildings except walls. |
| 18:47 | <@Vornicus> | ...Bitchin |
| 18:47 | <@CommanderFrog> | And (categories.NAVAL * categories.NUKE) is the set of all ships armed with nuclear weapons. |
| 18:47 | <@jerith> | Awesome! |
| 18:48 | <@Vornicus> | ...bitchin /and fly/ |
| 18:48 | <@Vornicus> | oh, that's what's wrong. |
| 18:49 | <@Vornicus> | Lots of these items have themselves in their connections. |
| 18:49 | <@Vornicus> | 70449: (70449, 70963, 70507, 71382), |
| 18:53 | <@Vornicus> | ...though that reveals another bug. I can't figure out what's going on though. |
| 18:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | ok |
| 18:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | it was released in 1988 |
| 18:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | or at least, this revision was |
| 18:55 | < Doctor_Nick> | so im going to assume its 286 |
| 18:57 | <@Vornicus> | ...mcwtf |
| 18:57 | < Doctor_Nick> | what? |
| 18:58 | < Doctor_Nick> | what the hell |
| 18:58 | < Doctor_Nick> | whats with all these bx+si |
| 18:59 | | * Vornicus eyes, why is it going batshit now? |
| 19:00 | < Doctor_Nick> | Vornicus: are we having seperate monologues :P |
| 19:01 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 19:01 | < Doctor_Nick> | k |
| 19:02 | <@CommanderFrog> | Doctor_Nick: bx is the base address register. si is the source index register. |
| 19:02 | <@CommanderFrog> | bx+si is the idiom for array indexing, IIRC. |
| 19:02 | <@CommanderFrog> | bx will be the address of the array, si will be (index * element_size) |
| 19:02 | <@Vornicus> | Arg. If I could express these paths more succinctly, it would be perfect. |
| 19:02 | <@CommanderFrog> | http://www.arl.wustl.edu/~lockwood/class/cs306/books/artofasm/Chapter_4/CH04-1.h tml#HEADING1-12 |
| 19:03 | < Doctor_Nick> | CommanderFrog: yeah, I know |
| 19:03 | < Doctor_Nick> | is this typical C compiler behavior to have a bunch of them all in a row? |
| 19:04 | <@Vornicus> | ...if I could /visit/ instead of /storing/, that might help. |
| 19:04 | < Doctor_Nick> | I mean, i have like "ADD BYTE PTR DS:[BX+SI], AL" for about 5000 lines |
| 19:07 | <@CommanderFrog> | Don't know. |
| 19:07 | < Doctor_Nick> | ok |
| 19:07 | < Doctor_Nick> | its not my job to look at it anyway sooooo :P |
| 19:13 | | * Vornicus gives up, goes to bed. |
| 19:14 | <@jerith> | Is S not perhaps autoincrementing? |
| 19:14 | <@jerith> | *SI |
| 19:14 | <@jerith> | G'night Vorn. |
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| 19:17 | < Doctor_Nick> | jerith: maybe it's just a retarded noop or something |
| 19:18 | <@jerith> | Or an unrolled loop? |
| 19:18 | < Doctor_Nick> | yeah |
| 19:18 | < Doctor_Nick> | I know this was compiled from a c program |
| 19:19 | < Doctor_Nick> | so maybe its just something the compiler did |
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| 19:25 | < Doctor_Nick> | wait |
| 19:25 | < Doctor_Nick> | did the 286 have support for 32-bit words? |
| 19:30 | <@CommanderFrog> | Not that I recall. |
| 19:30 | <@CommanderFrog> | But I could be wrong! |
| 19:30 | < Doctor_Nick> | so this was compiled for a 386 then because im seeing 32-bit instructions here |
| 19:30 | < Doctor_Nick> | and i still have my 386 laptop in my trunk |
| 19:30 | < Doctor_Nick> | hohoho |
| 19:30 | < Doctor_Nick> | all i need is a 9600 baud modem and im in business |
| --- Log closed Fri Mar 02 19:30:51 2007 |
| --- Log opened Fri Mar 02 19:30:57 2007 |
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| 19:36 | < Doctor_Nick> | hmm |
| 19:36 | < Doctor_Nick> | apparently i tossed the 386 laptop :/ |
| 19:36 | < Doctor_Nick> | anyone have a 20 year old computer lying around? :D |
| 19:47 | <@CommanderFrog> | ...what are you doing? |
| 19:48 | < Doctor_Nick> | im trying to run the program |
| 19:48 | < Doctor_Nick> | i need something that does EGA or platronics though |
| 19:49 | < Doctor_Nick> | and simulates a modem |
| 19:51 | <@jerith> | dosbox with a timer hack? |
| 19:51 | < Doctor_Nick> | i am using dosbox but this program doesnt do anything if it doesnt detect a modem |
| 19:54 | | * jerith ponders faking a tty. |
| 19:54 | < Doctor_Nick> | how's that? |
| 19:55 | <@jerith> | A play-play modem. |
| 20:03 | < Doctor_Nick> | how would you go about doing that? |
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| 20:58 | <@CommanderFrog> | !! |
| 20:58 | <@CommanderFrog> | I think I see a way to make lua_Tables network-safe. |
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| --- Log closed Sat Mar 03 00:00:51 2007 |