| --- Log opened Thu Feb 15 00:00:30 2007 |
| 00:02 | | EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-15301.a88-115-211-62.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #code |
| 00:09 | < Serah-Lost> | Well, 98 might be a possebility. |
| 00:09 | < Serah-Lost> | Someone added memcleanup to 98 |
| 00:56 | | * ChalcyThesis eyes |
| 00:56 | <@ChalcyThesis> | maybe I'm not learning Delphi. |
| 01:05 | | * Serah-Lost PatPats ChalcyThesis. |
| 01:06 | <@ChalcyThesis> | well, the disk I got contains .NET framework, visual web developer, VB, visual C#, visual C++, visual J#, MSDN library and SQL server. |
| 01:06 | <@ChalcyThesis> | I think I'd have gone for Delphi personally. |
| 01:10 | < Vornicus> | Bah, Python. |
| 01:12 | | Netsplit DeepThought.NY.US.Nightstar.Net <-> Blargh.CA.US.Nightstar.Net quits: MyCatVerbs, EvilDarkLord |
| 01:16 | <@ChalcyThesis> | yeah, Python would be better. |
| 01:16 | <@ChalcyThesis> | but well. |
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| 04:28 | <@McMartin> | My latest minor project is complete |
| 04:28 | <@McMartin> | http://mcmartin.livejournal.com/90358.html |
| 05:04 | < Vornicus> | shiny |
| 05:09 | | ReivWork is now known as Reiver |
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| 07:57 | | Chalcedon is now known as ChalcyThesis |
| 08:18 | < ChalcyThesis> | who's about |
| 08:19 | < ChalcyThesis> | what is the correct way to give the name of a program? |
| 08:19 | < ChalcyThesis> | I have PRESENCE and STATISTICA, but suspect that distributions.py should at most have a captial D. |
| 08:20 | | * AnnoDomini would suggest asking the magic 8-ball. |
| 08:20 | < Reiver> | There sort of isn't one. |
| 08:20 | < Reiver> | You generally call a program as it's name. |
| 08:21 | < Reiver> | If your program doesn't have a name, I reccomend talking to Vorn. |
| 08:21 | < ChalcyThesis> | hrm |
| 08:21 | < Reiver> | I personally suggest STOATBUCKETS, but this is also likely to get me shot. |
| 08:21 | < AnnoDomini> | Or look around your room. Some good name is bound to crop up. |
| 08:22 | < ChalcyThesis> | I don't want to imagine Kim's reaction to that one |
| 08:22 | < AnnoDomini> | Hm. Maybe name it the Demented Orange? |
| 08:22 | < ChalcyThesis> | AD, it's for a thesis. |
| 08:22 | < AnnoDomini> | Ah. |
| 08:22 | < AnnoDomini> | So you need more subtlety. |
| 08:22 | < ChalcyThesis> | yes |
| 08:22 | < Reiver> | VORN |
| 08:22 | < Reiver> | We need a geeky pun. |
| 08:22 | < AnnoDomini> | Something the profs won't recognize only until after they've passed you |
| 08:22 | < Reiver> | You are like, The Man for that sort of thing |
| 08:22 | < AnnoDomini> | *+. |
| 08:23 | < ChalcyThesis> | the original program was called IOPS (index of patchiness for stations) |
| 08:23 | < Reiver> | (Or more to the point Moltare isn't around so you'll do instead.) |
| 08:23 | < ChalcyThesis> | IOPUT |
| 08:23 | < ChalcyThesis> | *? |
| 08:23 | < Reiver> | UT? |
| 08:23 | < Vornicus> | UT? |
| 08:23 | < ChalcyThesis> | unavailable traps |
| 08:23 | < Vornicus> | ah |
| 08:23 | < ChalcyThesis> | or IOPUS (stations) |
| 08:24 | | * ChalcyThesis is no good at naming stuff |
| 08:24 | < Vornicus> | IOPUT is also a vaguely geeky pun. |
| 08:24 | < ChalcyThesis> | this is making me giggle |
| 08:24 | < Reiver> | Vorn: It is? |
| 08:24 | < Vornicus> | What's IO stand for? |
| 08:24 | < ChalcyThesis> | index of |
| 08:24 | < Vornicus> | No, no |
| 08:24 | < Vornicus> | in computer science |
| 08:24 | < ChalcyThesis> | IO(in out), PUT |
| 08:25 | < Vornicus> | Charlie, tell the woman what she's one. |
| 08:25 | < Vornicus> | won* |
| 08:25 | | * ChalcyThesis eyes |
| 08:25 | | * ChalcyThesis giggle |
| 08:26 | < Reiver> | in out put. |
| 08:26 | < Reiver> | Huh. |
| 08:26 | < Vornicus> | usually it actually stands for input/output |
| 08:26 | < ChalcyThesis> | close enough |
| 08:26 | < ChalcyThesis> | Forj says Shotput |
| 08:26 | < Vornicus> | but that's what makes it geeky |
| 08:26 | | * ChalcyThesis feels this is somewhat irrelevant |
| 08:27 | < Vornicus> | If you can backronym it, use it. It'd be great. |
| 08:27 | < ChalcyThesis> | backronym? |
| 08:27 | | * AnnoDomini sniggers. GOIO. |
| 08:28 | < Vornicus> | Backronym: take a word, find a relevant thing that abbreviates to that word. |
| 08:28 | | * ChalcyThesis christens the program IOPUT |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | Statistical Translation Of Area Patchiness (Unavalable Traps [version]). |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | I need a T. |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | Can someone give me a T? |
| 08:29 | < Vornicus> | Stoaput? |
| 08:29 | < ChalcyThesis> | STOAPUT |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | Nono. |
| 08:29 | < ChalcyThesis> | ah, STOATPUT |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | Yeah. |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | I need a T. |
| 08:29 | < Reiver> | I can't think of one. |
| 08:29 | < ChalcyThesis> | the? |
| 08:29 | < Vornicus> | has to fit between "area" and "patchiness" |
| 08:30 | < ChalcyThesis> | Statistical Translation Of Area Patchiness The Unavailable Traps (version) |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | Yeah |
| 08:30 | < ChalcyThesis> | bah |
| 08:30 | < Vornicus> | Stoaptut? |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | Area Total Patchiness? |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | Typical? |
| 08:30 | < ChalcyThesis> | total |
| 08:30 | < ChalcyThesis> | no, doesn't work. |
| 08:30 | | * ChalcyThesis goes with IOPUT |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | Transient? |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | Translational? |
| 08:30 | < Reiver> | Travel? |
| 08:31 | < ChalcyThesis> | besides, kim might EYE a program called STOATPUT |
| 08:31 | < Reiver> | Transvestite? |
| 08:31 | < Reiver> | No wait |
| 08:31 | < Reiver> | Not unless the rats are crossdressing anyway. |
| 08:31 | | * ChalcyThesis is giggling so hard she's crying |
| 08:32 | < ChalcyThesis> | congratulations everyone, we have a name (despite Reiver's efforts). |
| 08:32 | < Reiver> | Aww. |
| 08:32 | | * ChalcyThesis hands out stoatburgers |
| 08:32 | < Reiver> | I wasn't that bad! |
| 08:33 | | * Vornicus yays, nroms |
| 08:33 | < Reiver> | ...I hope... |
| 08:33 | | mode/#code [+oooooo AnnoDomini ChalcyThesis EvilDarkLord Mahal MyCatSleeps Raif] by Reiver |
| 08:33 | | mode/#code [+ooooo Reiver Serah-Lost Thaqui ToxicFrog Vornicus] by Reiver |
| 08:33 | | Schlock [~schlock@Nightstar-6915.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #code |
| 08:33 | | mode/#code [+v Schlock] by ChanServ |
| 08:33 | <@ChalcyThesis> | I think you have desynch issues |
| 08:33 | <@ChalcyThesis> | because I'm still seeing a bunch unopped. |
| 08:34 | <@ChalcyThesis> | (or did you just miss some?) |
| 08:34 | <@Reiver> | All opped from my end. *sigh* |
| 08:34 | <@AnnoDomini> | Here, too. |
| 08:35 | <@ChalcyThesis> | thats weird. |
| 08:35 | <@Reiver> | Anno is on my server. |
| 08:35 | <@Reiver> | Chalcy is on Blargh. |
| 08:35 | <@Reiver> | This makes it not weird at all. |
| 08:35 | <@Reiver> | Merely vexing. |
| 08:36 | <@ChalcyThesis> | no of 5 unopped, 4 are from troika and one on DeepThought. |
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| 08:44 | <@Reiver> | What does it mean when your computer freezes and stops responding (Such that even Winamp stops running), but your mouse still works? And then, thirty seconds of fruitless clicking later, your PC speaker starts going BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP and your mouse freezes to boot? |
| 08:45 | <@Vornicus> | I don't know |
| 08:45 | <@AnnoDomini> | Ah, I know that occurence. |
| 08:46 | <@AnnoDomini> | Means that you're running too many things at once, and there's been some conflict. |
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| 08:47 | <@Reiver> | conflict? |
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| 08:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | OS can't decide which process to give priority or something. |
| 08:48 | <@AnnoDomini> | At least, that's what I've come up with. |
| 08:48 | <@Vornicus> | It's more likely the hardware going mcwtf |
| 08:49 | <@AnnoDomini> | Probably. |
| 08:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | I've only had this with multiple things demanding heavy load from the box. |
| 08:50 | <@AnnoDomini> | Like launching seven programs at once. |
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| 10:07 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[wr0k] |
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| 15:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | AnnoDomini: running seven programs at once should not be heavy load. |
| 15:06 | <@ToxicFrog> | Unless it's a pretty old machine. |
| 15:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | Not running. Launching. |
| 15:06 | <@AnnoDomini> | Especially heavy things like games. |
| 15:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | ...ok, launching seven games at once I can see causing problems. |
| 15:07 | <@ToxicFrog> | Especially if they all try to grab hardware rendering surfaces. |
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| 17:40 | <@Serah-Lost> | [094208] <Reiver> What does it mean when your computer freezes and stops responding (Such that even Winamp stops running), but your mouse still works? And then, thirty seconds of fruitless clicking later, your PC speaker starts going BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP and your mouse freezes to boot? <- "Can I reboot now? Myesplease?" |
| 17:41 | | Reiver is now known as ReivWork |
| 17:42 | <@AnnoDomini> | Haha. That's a nice way of putting it. |
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| 17:51 | | * AnnoDomini shakes his head at the netsplits. |
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| 22:25 | | * McMartin looks at the LiveJournal source code. |
| 22:25 | <@McMartin> | MY GOD, IT'S FULL OF PERL |
| 22:27 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Well, uh, duh? |
| 22:27 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Surprisingly scalable, at that. |
| 22:30 | <@McMartin> | That was actually one reason I was kind of surprised~ |
| 22:31 | | * McMartin half expected a thin wrapper around a compiled CGI backend or something. |
| 22:45 | <@MyCatVerbs> | ...yeah, me too. |
| 22:46 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: but mod_perl's actually a surprisingly effective and pretty well proven performance hack. Perhaps they really can get away with it? |
| 22:47 | <@McMartin> | Well, by demonstration, yes, they can. |
| 22:48 | <@McMartin> | Unless they faked 10,000+ commits of a revision history just to make it look like it was in Perl. |
| 22:49 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Well, maybe they're hoping that Blogger, Movable Type and so on will all sabotage themselves by attempting to follow suit. =D |
| 22:51 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2] |
| 22:51 | <@McMartin> | Aren't LJ and Movable Type owned by the same guys now? |
| 22:51 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | Hmm. Actually. |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | On a similar, but nevertheless unrelated note |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | Does anyone know of any large-scale Python web applications? |
| 22:52 | <@Vornicus> | McM: is it good perl? |
| 22:52 | <@McMartin> | ISTR Bugzilla is python powered, but I'm trying to find others |
| 22:53 | | You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ] |
| 22:53 | <@Vornicus> | MoinMoin is a python wiki. |
| 22:53 | <@Vornicus> | Beyond that, I haven't the foggiest idea. |
| 22:54 | <@Vornicus> | (though I don't often see moinmoin in the wild) |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | It, idly, doesn't appear to be bad Perl. |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | I'm not sure if any Perl can be said to eb good. |
| 22:54 | <@Vornicus> | heh |
| 22:54 | <@McMartin> | http://code.sixapart.com/svn/livejournal/trunk/cgi-bin/console.pl |
| 22:54 | <@Vornicus> | I can almost read that. |
| 22:55 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: how do you tell? |
| 22:56 | <@Vornicus> | tell what? |
| 22:56 | <@MyCatVerbs> | 'Good' Perl from bad. |
| 22:56 | <@Vornicus> | If I can almost read it, it's good perl. |
| 22:56 | <@McMartin> | Use of comments and indentation are good signs. |
| 22:57 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Hehehe. |
| 22:57 | <@Vornicus> | Though, uh, the 200 line function is not healthy. |
| 22:58 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: not if you deliberately mislead with the indentation and make sure that all the comments are subtle lies that correlate perfectly with the indendentation. =D |
| 22:58 | <@McMartin> | Astonishingly, collaborative projects rarely do this. |
| 23:02 | | * Vornicus has seen some horrible sins against programming. |
| 23:03 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: no, collaborative projects don't of course. But there's nothing stopping deliberate, cruel and malicious jokes from doing so... =) |
| 23:03 | <@Vornicus> | ...like the 30 files of 200-1,000 line functions with no documentation, outdated Hungarian notation, and mostly meaningless names. |
| 23:03 | <@Vornicus> | ...in VB. |
| 23:05 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: outdated Hungarian notation? |
| 23:05 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: systems or apps? |
| 23:05 | <@McMartin> | (LJ counts as "collaborative", I think.) |
| 23:06 | <@Vornicus> | A reservation system. |
| 23:06 | <@McMartin> | Why do you need Hungarian in VB? Doesn't VB do dynamic typing? |
| 23:07 | <@Vornicus> | A large, horrible, MS Access-based, reservation system, used by upwards of 50 companies across the English-speaking world in mission-critical settings. |
| 23:07 | <@Mahal> | ... |
| 23:08 | <@Mahal> | augh that's bad :( |
| 23:08 | <@Vornicus> | McM: It does, but not if you start specifically naming types. |
| 23:09 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: nnnnuuuuuohes! |
| 23:10 | <@MyCatVerbs> | That's not what Hungarian is supposed to be! That's the evil, bastard perverse systems hungarian. |
| 23:10 | <@Vornicus> | I had to go in and fix it one day because the writer used Integers a lot. Those are 16-bit numbers... and after a while, they started running out. |
| 23:10 | <@MyCatVerbs> | The method they were using in the Excel team ("apps hungarian") was that they'd use the prefixes to note variable semantics, not types. |
| 23:11 | <@Vornicus> | This was the bad kind. |
| 23:11 | <@MyCatVerbs> | McMartin: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Wrong.html <-- the good kind. |
| 23:11 | <@Vornicus> | All integer variables were prefixed with "I". |
| 23:11 | <@MyCatVerbs> | (And the bad kind, compared.) |
| 23:11 | <@Vornicus> | Even after being changed to longs. THough some longs were instead prefixed with "L" |
| 23:13 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Heh. That's the best kind of convention. |
| 23:13 | <@MyCatVerbs> | "All integer variable names are prefixed with I. Except when they aren't." =D |
| 23:14 | <@Vornicus> | Exactly. |
| 23:15 | <@Vornicus> | On the other hand, unless your typing system explicitly codes for units, a physics engine should say what the units of measure are. |
| 23:16 | | AnnoDomini [~farkoff@Nightstar-29061.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Don't trust the skull.] |
| 23:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: aye. That be where apps hungarian comes in handy. :/ |
| 23:16 | <@MyCatVerbs> | I wonder if ML's type system could be made to do that? |
| 23:17 | <@Vornicus> | Either in the names, or in types themselves, or in the documentation. it has to say somewhere pretty obvious. |
| 23:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | Vornicus: try the Joel article I just linked, it has pretty good suggestions for that kinda seperation. |
| 23:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | I'd be interested to know whether those suggestions could be integrated into a language itself. |
| 23:18 | <@MyCatVerbs> | *Could practically be*, I mean. |
| --- Log closed Fri Feb 16 00:00:30 2007 |