code logs -> 2006 -> Thu, 14 Dec 2006< code.20061213.log - code.20061215.log >
--- Log opened Thu Dec 14 00:00:03 2006
00:01
<@ToxicFrog>
And even if the information is available, it may not be reliable - for example, when I was on Sympatico ADSL, my IP claimed variously that I was in Toronto, Waterloo, and Ottawa.
00:01
<@ToxicFrog>
I'm in Guelph.
00:04
<@Vornicus>
Which is, iirc, kinda between those others.
00:44 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
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01:14
<@Vornicus>
(ah. guelph is between waterloo and toronto, and ottawa is kinda... eclipsed, by toronto, as seen from guelph)
01:15
<@Vornicus>
quitting time.
01:15 Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ]
01:22
< TakyojiClone>
What is the proper way to insert a CSS command in an HTML attribute? class()?
01:24
< TakyojiClone>
Because I can't get it to work with using style() either
01:26
< TakyojiClone>
I've done it before, but that was a long time ago
01:27 ChalcyAFK is now known as Chalcedon
01:34
< TakyojiClone>
nobody knows?
01:41 * Chalcedon eyeballs
01:42
<@Chalcedon>
I can never remember the names for things, but I'm pretty sure that the only time I've seen command() in HTML is in Javascript.
01:44
<@Chalcedon>
feel free to poke me when/if you come back and I'll try to help, but please remember that my HTML/CSS is /extremely/ rusty (and was never brilliant to start with)
01:44
< TakyojiClone>
ahh
01:45
< TakyojiClone>
because I remember seeing it like <font color= "black"onmousehover="style{color: black;}"> or something,but forgot how it goes
01:46 * Chalcedon hmmm
01:46
<@ToxicFrog>
...
01:46 * Chalcedon hug TF
01:46
<@ToxicFrog>
Aren't you meant to do it the other way around?
01:47
<@ToxicFrog>
#blackthingy { color: black }
01:47
<@ToxicFrog>
<font id="blackthingy">
01:47
< TakyojiClone>
oh
01:47
< TakyojiClone>
lemme think..
01:47
<@Chalcedon>
that's what I'm familiar with
01:47
<@ToxicFrog>
I mean, as I understand it, that's sort of *how CSS works*
01:47 * ToxicFrog huggles Chalcy, proffers stoatburger
01:47 * Chalcedon nrom stoatburger
01:47
< TakyojiClone>
so like <font id="blah" onmousehover="#blah {color: blue;"> or somethin?
01:48
< TakyojiClone>
erm..
01:48
<@Chalcedon>
the #blah needs to go in your css file, or in the css section at the start.
01:48
< TakyojiClone>
but I'm trying to have it just change things by hovering, clicking, and so on
01:49
< TakyojiClone>
or is javascript only used in that type of attribute?
01:50
<@Chalcedon>
no, css does it, though the term /might/ be hover (without the onmouse - or I might be confused).
01:51
<@ToxicFrog>
I think you're missing the point.
01:51
<@ToxicFrog>
In CSS, you define a bunch of attributes: normal, hover, clicked, etc.
01:51
<@ToxicFrog>
You associate these attributes with an ID.
01:51
<@ToxicFrog>
In HTML, you then give that ID to a tag, and it inherits the attributes in CSS.
01:51
<@ToxicFrog>
So, for example:
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
#shiny {
01:52
<@Chalcedon>
thus saving you the hassle of typing it out every time.
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
color: blue
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
}
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
#shiny a:hover {
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
color: green
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
}
01:52
<@ToxicFrog>
Thus, a tag with id="shiny" will be blue; an <a> tag with id="shiny" will be blue, and will turn green on mouseover.
01:53
<@ToxicFrog>
And Chalcy is correct; "hover" is CSS, "onmouseover" is Javascript.
01:54
<@Chalcedon>
and it works best if put in a separate file, that way if you have 10 pages and decide to change the colour of your background say, you only need to alter one thing, rather than 10.
01:55
< TakyojiClone>
What are all the tags that you can define in CSS? In example blah:a hover? So is it: a, td, ul, div, and so on? Not font, img, etc
01:56
< TakyojiClone>
or is it all of them?
01:56
<@ToxicFrog>
I would rather think all of them.
01:56
<@ToxicFrog>
If you really want an exhaustive list, the reference specifications should have something.
01:57
< TakyojiClone>
because font:a hover isn't working
01:57
< TakyojiClone>
but erm
01:57
< TakyojiClone>
a:hover
01:58
<@ToxicFrog>
...say again?
01:58
< TakyojiClone>
"Because font:hover isn't working, but a:hover does"
01:58
<@ToxicFrog>
Aah.
01:58
< TakyojiClone>
It's apparently only working with a, ul, and tr.
01:59
< TakyojiClone>
and I do have it defined properly
01:59
< TakyojiClone>
ideas?
02:00
<@ToxicFrog>
It would appear that :hover is not valid for font tags and other font-like things.
02:00
<@ToxicFrog>
http://www.echoecho.com/cssintroduction.htm
02:00
< TakyojiClone>
ohh
02:00
<@ToxicFrog>
Perhaps this site will be of some use, containing as it does numerous tutorials and the complete reference documentation.
02:01
< TakyojiClone>
true
02:01
<@ToxicFrog>
Although its emphasis on getting things working with Netscape is slightly confusing.
02:03 * Vornicus-Latens returns
02:05
< Vornicus-Latens>
I am beginning to see the point of middleware.
02:09
< Vornicus-Latens>
I mean, 1. you don't want to put business rules in your database because it defeats part of the point... but 2. you don't want to put business rules in your rendering code because FOAM! FOAM IN MY BRAIN!
02:10
< Vornicus-Latens>
so, middleware. What you put between your rendering code and your database
02:19
< Vornicus-Latens>
and, at that, where you put your business rules.
02:21
< TakyojiClone>
God my damn brother's an idoit
02:22
< TakyojiClone>
He wants solid cyan on true lime with full saturation
02:22
< TakyojiClone>
which looks like absolute crap
02:22
< Vornicus-Latens>
Did he think that middleware was what you wear between your boxers and your jeans?
02:22
< TakyojiClone>
And he thinks it looks nice and want me to make his damn website even more screwed up that way
02:23
< TakyojiClone>
And EVERYTHING has to be a damned solid color
02:24
<@ToxicFrog>
...
02:24
<@ToxicFrog>
Is he color-blind by any chance?
02:25
< TakyojiClone>
Probably
02:25
< TakyojiClone>
Holdon
02:27
< TakyojiClone>
Because, for example, he wants these colors for the navigation bar: http://aquaeden.com/Untitled-1.jpg
02:28
< TakyojiClone>
No gradient, just solid
02:29
<@ToxicFrog>
Well, it's not eye-meltingly bad.
02:29
< TakyojiClone>
holdon
02:29
< TakyojiClone>
I'll show you the whole design
02:29
<@ToxicFrog>
However, it does scream "ten-year-old with FrontPage and MS Paint"
02:29
< TakyojiClone>
indeed
02:30 Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus
02:31 * Janus needs to find better rendering code, his database is showing.
02:37 Janus [~Cerulean@Nightstar-10302.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Jouets de Dieu, jouets de jouets, et les jouets de me, fait naĆ®tre Clairvoire.]
02:43
< TakyojiClone>
See, this is what he wants: http://aquaeden.com/idea6.jpg
02:43
< Vornicus>
...my ajax server can be the middleware.
02:44
< Vornicus>
...that's actually not that awful.
02:44
< Vornicus>
The upper toolbar could use a lot of work, but the left side is halfway decent.
02:44
< TakyojiClone>
I'm hating it, not enjoying it
02:45
< TakyojiClone>
Because apparently he wants it that way and I DEEPLY disagree
02:45
< Vornicus>
Also the BIG PANTS TEXT in the middle is just too big.
02:46
< TakyojiClone>
That's not the actual text size we we're considering though
02:54
< TakyojiClone>
He considers this horrible website design in his terms(which is the opposite): https://www.web-a-file.com/Redirect.cgi?html=store.html "It has too many colors", "The picture's out of focus" (dumbass), "And it looks so plain of colors"
02:54
< TakyojiClone>
"And the letters on the picture make the picture look bad"
02:55
< TakyojiClone>
I just want to kill idoits like that
03:04
< TakyojiClone>
So look at it this way: This was the original idea we started with which I made: http://aquaeden.com/original-design.jpg And this is what it is going to turn into: http://aquaeden.com/idea6.jpg (Ignore the logo and picture aspect of it)
03:05
< Vornicus>
I'm not a huge fan of the orange, personally
03:05
< TakyojiClone>
ahh
03:06
< TakyojiClone>
Then my other idea was red
03:06
< TakyojiClone>
But still.. it's basically gone backwards
03:13
< TakyojiClone>
He doesn't understand the idea of staying at the same hue for everything, instead of the same absolute color of everything
03:14
< TakyojiClone>
Because he wont accept any brighter, darker, less-saturate, etc of the lime and blue
03:14
< TakyojiClone>
cyan*
03:15
< TakyojiClone>
Wouldn't you rather agree if you have a company with a color scheme to stick to a few hues instead of a very few precise colors
03:15
< TakyojiClone>
for the website
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12:49
< MyCatOwnz>
GCC's C implementation has lexically scoped functions. oO
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15:24
<@ToxicFrog>
wot
15:24
<@ToxicFrog>
As in, for example, functions local to functions?
15:24
< MyCatOwnz>
ToxicFrog: yep.
15:25
< MyCatOwnz>
It's one of the GNU extensions.
15:25
<@ToxicFrog>
Spicy.
15:26
< MyCatOwnz>
Interesting, yes. If you pass the address of that function out it continues to refer to the outlying function's local variables.
15:26
< MyCatOwnz>
If you make the inner-function pointer persist and you call the inner function after the outer function has returned, All Hell Breaks Loose(tm), since the inner function still refers to stuff on the outer function's stack.
15:27
<@ToxicFrog>
So it has local functions but not function closures.
15:27
< MyCatOwnz>
OTOH, if it doesn't refer to any local variables, I think the inner function can be called at any time.
15:27 * MyCatOwnz nods.
15:28
< MyCatOwnz>
http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.6/gcc/Nested-Functions.html#Nested-Functio ns
15:28
< MyCatOwnz>
Lexically scoped, yes. Closed over, no.
15:30
< MyCatOwnz>
Sounds pretty damn useful for passing functions to things like the stdlib qsort and lsort functions, since those'll always complete before the outer function exits, without littering the global scope with one-liners.
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16:36
< AnnoDomini>
Vornicus! You still lurk in #Schlock_Mercenary, right?
16:59 * AnnoDomini bashes his head against a wall.
17:00
< AnnoDomini>
Is there no way to make LU decomposition without it giving erroneous results as well as corrupting memory?
17:03
<@ToxicFrog>
...
17:04
<@ToxicFrog>
If it's corrupting memory that's an implementation problem.
17:04
< AnnoDomini>
It gives either parity errors, or floating point errors.
17:04
< AnnoDomini>
Depending on OS.
17:04
< AnnoDomini>
But I could live with that. If it gave me the correct numbers.
17:05
< AnnoDomini>
But it doesn't. Both my own code, and code directly adapted from a MathCad sheet on LU decomp. both turn up the same problems.
17:05
< AnnoDomini>
Using lead element selection doesn't do jack.
17:06
<@ToxicFrog>
Parity errors shouldn't happen unless your memory is physically bad.
17:06
<@ToxicFrog>
SIGFPEs generally mean a division by zero.
17:07
< AnnoDomini>
But they happen even if I make the "if (a!=0)" clause.
17:07
<@ToxicFrog>
So drop into the debugger and see exactly what it was doing.
17:09
< AnnoDomini>
It errorises at the division by the pivotal element. Judging by the size of the output numbers, I would wager that the pivotal element is really small.
17:10
< AnnoDomini>
But it isn't == 0, dammit!
17:12 * ToxicFrog shrugs. I haven't used native doubles in ages, I've been using Lua's mathlib.
17:12
<@ToxicFrog>
Might it be NaN?
17:13
< AnnoDomini>
Er... Maybe. When are numbers assigned NaN?
17:13
< AnnoDomini>
*variables
17:19
<@ToxicFrog>
NaN is the result of any mathematical operation with indeterminate or undefined result.
17:19
<@ToxicFrog>
Or possibly infinity. I'm not entirely sure, as I said, I'm way rusty on these things.
17:20
<@ToxicFrog>
But, say, 1/0 should yield one of { SIGFPE, infinity, NaN }
17:20
<@ToxicFrog>
If it's NaN, trying to further manipulate it might cause explodey.
17:20 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
--- Log closed Thu Dec 14 17:40:03 2006
--- Log opened Thu Dec 14 17:40:38 2006
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18:45
<@jerith>
Evening all.
18:46
<@jerith>
AD: FP isn't always precise. You should always check < epsilon rather than == 0.
18:48
< AnnoDomini>
Mmm.
18:48
<@jerith>
Especially if you're dealing with low-precision types.
18:50
< AnnoDomini>
http://pastie.caboo.se/27637 <- Anyone see anything inherently wrong about this?
18:51
< AnnoDomini>
And yes, we are supposed to use floats, not doubles.
18:52
<@jerith>
Yes. Layout is broken in lynx.
18:53
<@jerith>
Also, variable names. Use them.
18:54
<@jerith>
Code is all about semantics, not syntax.
18:54
<@jerith>
If I can't see what it's doing, I can't debug it.
18:55
<@jerith>
[jerith@jerith-lap0 ~]$ vim .emacs
18:55
<@jerith>
Is that heresy?
18:55 * AnnoDomini scratches head. I don't know.
18:56
<@ToxicFrog>
Yeah, kind of automatically.
18:56
<@ToxicFrog>
To the emacs people, because you're using vi.
18:56
<@ToxicFrog>
To the vi people, because you're editing the emacs rc.
18:56
<@ToxicFrog>
To everyone else, because you aren't using a real editor~
18:57
<@jerith>
The thing is, I don't want emacs to open in X.'
18:57
<@jerith>
And I can't be bothered to look up the commandline switch.
18:57
<@jerith>
(I'm copying bits to a .emacs on another box.)
18:59 * jerith sighs.
18:59
<@ToxicFrog>
...ummm.
18:59
<@ToxicFrog>
Isn't not having emacs open in X as simple as running "emacs" rather than "xemacs"?
18:59
<@jerith>
Apparently somewhere between Solaris' bash and screen I don't have colours turned on.
18:59
<@jerith>
TF: xemacs is a different flavour of emacs.
19:00
<@jerith>
I suspect emacs looks for $DISPLAY and launches an X version if it's there.
19:00
<@jerith>
Or something.
19:01
<@ToxicFrog>
Freaky.
19:01
<@ToxicFrog>
Wrt colors, check your $TERM
19:01 * jerith nods.
19:01
<@jerith>
vt100
19:02
<@jerith>
There be the problem.
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19:05
<@jerith>
It seems screen is setting it.
19:05
<@jerith>
I wonder if I can convince it to use whatever it was started with?
19:05
<@ToxicFrog>
Hmm. Mine sets it to "screen".
19:05
<@ToxicFrog>
(and colors work fine)
19:05
< Vornotron>
...console titles?
19:05
<@ToxicFrog>
$TERM
19:06
<@jerith>
bash-3.00$ emacs bin/mkmovie.sh
19:06
<@jerith>
emacs: Terminal type screen is not defined.
19:06
<@jerith>
Solaris. :-(
19:07
<@ToxicFrog>
It appears to be -T
19:07
<@ToxicFrog>
So, you can propagate the current TERM setting with screen -T $TERM
19:07
<@jerith>
Hmm...
19:07
<@jerith>
Of course, I'd rather not just set it to xterm.
19:08
<@ToxicFrog>
Also, colors work fine with TERM=vt100 on Linux.
19:08
<@ToxicFrog>
As they should.
19:08
<@jerith>
I think it's emacs not doing the colours.
19:08
<@ToxicFrog>
I don't have emacs installed, so I can't test that.
19:09
<@jerith>
It's not doing colours in a non-screen TERM=xterm either. :-(
19:09
<@ToxicFrog>
The man page for screen does suggest that if there's no termcap entry for "screen" on the system it falls back to "vt100" or whatever is defined in the config file.
19:09
<@ToxicFrog>
With -T overriding all of this.
19:09 * jerith nods.
19:10
<@jerith>
It looks like emacs is colluding with Solaris in denying me my colours.
19:10 * ToxicFrog tries to remember why he has TERM=rxvt-cygwin on Durandal
19:10
<@ToxicFrog>
And, for that matter, why Cygwin's /etc/termcap doesn't have an entry for rxvt-cygwin...but Fedora's does.
19:15 * Vornotron works on a Task: authenticating Linux against Active Directory.
19:15
<@ToxicFrog>
And why libregex doesn't appear to be working under Cygwin anymore ;.;
19:15
<@jerith>
:-(
19:16 * jerith sighs.
19:16
<@ToxicFrog>
Or so I infer from the fact that grep works, but egrep never generates any matches.
19:16
<@jerith>
I guess I'll be working without colours, then.
19:23 * Vornotron vaguely wonders why he uses tabs for IRC but windows for Web.
19:23
<@ToxicFrog>
That is a very good question.
19:24
<@ToxicFrog>
The mere thought of using windows for web browsing gives me the jibblies.
19:24
<@jerith>
If I used windows for web again I'd go madder.
19:24 * ToxicFrog determines that ~ on Durandal is 1GB because he still has a complete SGOS build tree lying around in it from the summer's work. Oops.
19:25
< Vornotron>
pff
19:25 * Vornotron would like a disk space analysis tool.
19:25
<@ToxicFrog>
I tend to abuse du for that purpose.
19:25
< Vornotron>
cuz I need to clean off my computer.
19:26
<@jerith>
I find xdiskusage to be very helpful in that regard.
19:28 * ToxicFrog wields rm, cuts ~ down to 70MB
19:34 * ToxicFrog then backs it up and proceeds to do a clean reinstall of Cygwin.
19:39 * Vornotron dumps du.
19:41
<@ToxicFrog>
?
19:41
<@jerith>
Aha! http://www.bolthole.com/solaris/
20:02
< Vornotron>
rather, makes a dump of du's output.
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20:52 AnnoDomini [~fark.off@Nightstar-29605.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #Code
21:02
< Janus>
"May I please ask a mathy question please?"
21:03
< Vornotron>
DOn't ask to ask, just ask!
21:03
< Vornotron>
:P
21:03
< Janus>
...was what I said to My Pre-Cal teacher, whom was quite flamboozelled at it.
21:03
< Janus>
Yes sir!
21:03
< Vornotron>
pre-calc, you mean?
21:04
< Janus>
Yes, that's the class. I couldn't think if it was a 'k' or a 'c' for some reason.
21:04
< Vornotron>
heh
21:08
< Janus>
I digress; a few days ago, when I asked about arch length and all that fiasco, y'all suggested "right = cos(length/r + acos(left))" But... for some reason, it seems "right = cos(lenght/r + asin(left))" looks more appropriate when it's graphed out with 'left' as a variable.
21:09
< Vornotron>
does it?
21:09
< Vornotron>
okay.
21:10
< MyCatOwnz>
Janus: what range of left are you plotting?
21:10
< Vornotron>
the domain of left should be -1..1
21:10
< Janus>
All I know is that is looks like a half a circle, instead of a line. -1 to 1 now, after finding out how mad the computer gets when it drops out of that~
21:11
< Vornotron>
hee
21:11
< MyCatOwnz>
Janus: thinking carefully, you'll want to use asin if you're plotting from 0 to +pi and acos if you're plotting from -pi/2 to pi/2
21:11
< Janus>
... really? I see now.
21:13
< MyCatOwnz>
You're trying to draw a curve that looks like an arch, right? Or have I misunderstood the requirement?
21:13
< Vornotron>
Note also that your problem statement guarantees that the curve should be strictly ascending.
21:14
< Vornotron>
MCO: what he's got is a circular arc that he knows the length of, and the x coordinate of the left end of the arc.
21:15
< MyCatOwnz>
Vornotron: I see. What's he after?
21:15
< Vornotron>
He's trying to find the x coordinate of the right end of the arc.
21:15
< MyCatOwnz>
Sounds Hellish.
21:16
< Vornotron>
the arc is of course assumed not to cross the x axis.
21:16
< Vornotron>
It's not that bad.
21:16
< Janus>
Thank you Mr. Vorn, the words wouldn't come to me.
21:33 You're now known as TheWatcher[afk]
21:41 EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-15301.a88-115-211-62.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping Timeout]
21:45
<@ToxicFrog>
MCO: no, it's simple trig.
21:50
< MyCatOwnz>
ToxicFrog: trig is always Hellish when you're too lazy to do it.
21:52 EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-15301.a88-115-211-62.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #code
21:56
< Janus>
It's even less pleasant when the code that uses it segfaults at seemingly random moments.
21:58
< Vornotron>
That's probably your fault.
21:58
< MyCatOwnz>
Segfaults in a mathematical program are the computer's way of saying that you're using too low-level a language for your own level of experience.
21:58 You're now known as TheWatcher
22:04
<@ToxicFrog>
Indeed.
22:09 * Janus is noticing some oddities in the surfaces it's putting out; lines of pure blue, green, or red, in diagonal or straight lines, with the rest being black. So it may be a bounds issue.
22:09
< Janus>
But first...
22:09 Janus is now known as Jan[dinnerer]
22:12 AnnoDomini [~fark.off@Nightstar-29605.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: BRB]
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22:17 You're now known as TheWatcher[T-2]
22:22 You're now known as TheWatcher[zZzZ]
23:30
< Vornotron>
arg. activedirectory uses ldap, but it doesn't say what names it uses for ldap.
23:30
< Vornotron>
for the ldap stuff, rather
23:31 AnnoDomini [~fark.off@Nightstar-29605.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Some people find sanity a little confining.]
23:38
< Vornotron>
Is it live, or is it memorex?
23:56 Shemhazai is now known as Serah
--- Log closed Fri Dec 15 00:00:03 2006
code logs -> 2006 -> Thu, 14 Dec 2006< code.20061213.log - code.20061215.log >