| --- Log opened Tue Aug 15 00:00:02 2006 |
| 00:16 | | * ReivSLEP er. Knwos java! Like, six lines. >.> |
| 00:16 | | * ReivSLEP is thus possible not the best person to ask. |
| 00:16 | | * Serah pokes ReivSLEP. |
| 00:16 | < Serah> | Liar. |
| 00:16 | | ReivSLEP is now known as Reiver |
| 00:16 | <@Vornicus> | He just got here. |
| 00:17 | < Serah> | How do you know? |
| 00:17 | <@Vornicus> | Because I've been here for 7 hours now. |
| 00:17 | <@Reiver> | Because he still has that tracking implant installed. |
| 01:06 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 01:06 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 01:06 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Chalcy))] |
| 01:06 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 01:12 | | * ToxicFrog snrks at a recent DWTF. |
| 01:12 | <@ToxicFrog> | Popup title "NO! - Bad User!!!" |
| 01:13 | <@ToxicFrog> | content "You've been warned 3 times that this file does not exist. Now you've made us catch this worthless exception and we're upset. Do not do this again." |
| 01:13 | <@Chalcedon> | ... |
| 01:26 | <@Reiver> | ... |
| 01:26 | <@Reiver> | Brilliant |
| 01:27 | <@Chalcedon> | ? |
| 01:27 | | * Chalcedon gives Reiver a cookie |
| 01:29 | | * Reiver nrom! |
| 01:29 | | * Reiver offers Chalcedon some of his delicious smelling apricot chicken. |
| 01:30 | <@Chalcedon> | thank you Reivy |
| 01:30 | <@Chalcedon> | (they're still warm btw |
| 01:30 | <@Chalcedon> | *) |
| 01:30 | <@Reiver> | Ooooh. |
| 01:30 | | * Reiver /really/ wants to nrom, now. >.< |
| 01:31 | | * Reiver has six large chicken drumsticks in apricotty goodness. |
| 01:31 | <@Chalcedon> | excellent |
| 01:31 | | * Reiver would actually /really/ invite you over for dinner, if he didn't have so much homework. |
| 01:31 | | * Chalcedon has to go out tonight anyway |
| 01:31 | <@Reiver> | Ah, well. |
| 01:31 | | * Reiver nod. :) |
| 01:31 | <@Chalcedon> | we're meeting Forj's two business partners |
| 01:31 | | * Chalcedon is making dinner |
| 01:32 | <@Reiver> | :) |
| 01:50 | | himi-sleeping is now known as himi-coffee |
| 01:55 | | Reiver is now known as ReivClass |
| 03:00 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ] |
| 03:07 | | Chalain [~chalain@ServicesAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has left #code [] |
| 03:07 | | Chalain [~chalain@ServicesAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 03:07 | | mode/#code [+o Chalain] by ChanServ |
| 03:11 | | MahalWork [~Mahal@Nightstar-5049.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #Code |
| 03:11 | | mode/#code [+o MahalWork] by ChanServ |
| 03:45 | | Vornicus-Latens is now known as Vornicus |
| 04:33 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5049.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: wr0k. Wootage.] |
| 05:00 | | You're now known as TheWatcher |
| 05:23 | | * Chalcedon beats python |
| 05:23 | <@Chalcedon> | why aren't you recognising a built in command? |
| 05:23 | <@Vornicus> | What's up? |
| 05:27 | <@Chalcedon> | I'm trying to learn how to read/write to/from text files |
| 05:27 | <@Chalcedon> | I have the file open |
| 05:27 | <@Chalcedon> | but it is not recognising write() or close() |
| 05:27 | <@Vornicus> | ah. |
| 05:28 | <@Vornicus> | Show me how you're doing it. |
| 05:28 | <@Chalcedon> | open('test.txt', 'w') |
| 05:28 | <@Chalcedon> | and write(s) (where s is a string) and close() |
| 05:28 | <@Vornicus> | Ok, I see where you're going wrong. |
| 05:28 | <@Chalcedon> | I'm just working in the command line thingamagig at the moment |
| 05:29 | <@Chalcedon> | please enlighten me? |
| 05:29 | <@Vornicus> | write and close (and open, at that) are methods on a file object. |
| 05:29 | <@Vornicus> | So you have to tell it what you're writing to, and what you're closing. |
| 05:29 | <@Chalcedon> | AH |
| 05:29 | | * Chalcedon duhs at the obvious |
| 05:29 | <@Vornicus> | And for /that/ you need to tell it where to put file object that you created. |
| 05:29 | <@Vornicus> | Should be: |
| 05:29 | <@Chalcedon> | so I need to do write('test.txt', s)? |
| 05:29 | <@Vornicus> | f = file("test.txt", "w") |
| 05:29 | <@Vornicus> | then f.write(s) |
| 05:30 | <@Vornicus> | then f.close() |
| 05:30 | <@Chalcedon> | ok, yes thats better |
| 05:30 | <@Chalcedon> | which is object orientation? |
| 05:30 | <@Vornicus> | Essentially. |
| 05:30 | <@Chalcedon> | ok, makes sense. |
| 05:30 | <@Chalcedon> | thank you very much, I couldn't figure out why it didn't work. |
| 05:31 | <@Chalcedon> | yay, it works! |
| 05:31 | <@Vornicus> | yay! |
| 05:31 | | * Chalcedon gives Vorn a stoatburger with side of cookies |
| 05:32 | <@Vornicus> | woohoo! |
| 05:32 | | * Vornicus nromminates. |
| 05:35 | <@Vornicus> | Hrm. I think the only annoying thing about using Eclipse for Ruby is that it is overly aggressive with figuring out the collapse tree. So much so, in fact, that if at any point you stop typing for a few moments and do not have a well-formed script, you lose the collapse tree and all the collapses made on it. |
| 05:35 | <@Chalcedon> | o.O |
| 05:37 | <@Vornicus> | (a collapse tree is a very common system in IDEs by which you can hide large amounts of code so you get a more complete overall view of the code in the same amount of screen space. It makes your code act like, oh, Windows Explorer) |
| 05:37 | <@Chalcedon> | it sounds both intriguing and horribly confusing |
| 05:38 | <@Vornicus> | It's wonderful stuff, when it works. |
| 05:38 | <@TheWatcher> | It is actually easy to follow once oyu've seen it in action. |
| 05:39 | <@TheWatcher> | Although I prefer emacs' hide-show minor mode |
| 05:39 | <@Chalcedon> | having written a couple of really long files, it does sound handy |
| 05:43 | < himi-coffee> | If your files are long enough that they're confusing you, this is a good sign that you should be refactoring |
| 05:43 | <@Chalcedon> | refactoring? |
| 05:43 | <@Vornicus> | Long files aren't a big deal. Long functions, complicated classes, those are important. |
| 05:44 | < himi-coffee> | Rearranging/rewriting/reorganising |
| 05:44 | <@Chalcedon> | yes, but if you can't find the function in the file? |
| 05:44 | < himi-coffee> | Vorn: yeah, but long files that are /confusing/ |
| 05:44 | < himi-coffee> | It's the confusing bit that's key |
| 05:44 | <@Vornicus> | Refactoring is the process of taking code that is Bigger Than Your Head, and cutting it into little bits that you can read and understand. |
| 05:45 | < himi-coffee> | And personally, if you have a file that's really long, even if it's not a big complicated nasty thing, if you can't find stuff in it you should probably start splitting it up so you /can/ find stuff |
| 05:46 | <@Chalcedon> | yeah... I did that, probably not the way one should... |
| 05:46 | <@Chalcedon> | but I always figure you learn how to do things better by screwing them up the first time. |
| 05:46 | < himi-coffee> | I mean, collapsing trees is great and all, but there's a reason you can split code into more than one file |
| 05:47 | <@Vornicus> | Right now I'm working on some code for euclidean geometry. |
| 05:49 | <@Vornicus> | One piece of code here, it determines the tangent points on a circle to a point. |
| 05:49 | <@Vornicus> | To do this, you get the midpoint between the circle's center and the given point, then draw a circle through the given point around that midpoint, then get the intersections of that circle with the given circle. |
| 05:50 | <@Vornicus> | Technically, I could put all this madness into a one-line function that does all those calculations. |
| 05:50 | <@Vornicus> | But then even I couldn't read it. |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | So, here's one function I wrote: |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | def x_distance_to(other) |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | other.x - x |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | end |
| 05:51 | < himi-coffee> | . . . . that's a nifty method for calculating the tangents . . . . |
| 05:51 | <@Vornicus> | It is. It's also 2500 years old. |
| 05:52 | < himi-coffee> | Yay the greeks |
| 05:52 | <@Chalcedon> | yeah.... |
| 05:53 | <@Vornicus> | def distance_to(other) |
| 05:53 | <@Vornicus> | Math.hypot(x_distance_to(other), y_distance_to(other)) |
| 05:53 | <@Vornicus> | end |
| 05:53 | <@Vornicus> | And there's another. |
| 05:54 | <@Vornicus> | Each method is so small that anyone with a middle school education in mathematics can see what I'm doing. |
| 05:55 | | * himi-coffee ponders |
| 05:56 | < himi-coffee> | For /this/ particular problem, I'd probably have a circle intersection method, taking two circles defined by (x1, y1, r1, x2, y2, r2) |
| 05:56 | < himi-coffee> | I'm not sure what else you'd want to do with circles, though, so that might be too specific for the general library |
| 05:56 | <@Vornicus> | --now, granted, the actual circle-circle intersection method is pretty hairy. |
| 05:58 | <@Vornicus> | but that's because the math is, too. |
| 05:58 | | * himi-coffee nods |
| 05:59 | < himi-coffee> | Not much you can do about /that/ |
| 05:59 | < himi-coffee> | There are probably elements that can be split out, but without implementing it I can't say what |
| 05:59 | <@Vornicus> | There is a bit I can split out. |
| 06:01 | <@Vornicus> | Given any two circles I can describe the Radical Line, which is the line where distance_to(a.center) / a.r = distance_to(b.center) / b.r |
| 06:01 | <@Vornicus> | And if intersections exist, they will be on the Radical Line. |
| 06:02 | < himi-coffee> | That would indeed be useful |
| 06:02 | < himi-coffee> | Generally useful, in fact |
| 06:03 | <@Vornicus> | and then since I know the point of closest approach to the radical line, the rest is pretty trivial. |
| 06:04 | <@Vornicus> | (indeed, I find the PoCA first, and then the radical line is perpendicular to the line through both centers, through that point) |
| 06:06 | < himi-coffee> | Well, if you've got the radical line and you know that the tangent intersection points must be on the circumference of the first circle, then you can simply look for the two points on the radical line where distance_to(a.center) = a.r |
| 06:06 | <@Vornicus> | Yep. |
| 06:06 | < himi-coffee> | Unless I'm misunderstanding things |
| 06:06 | <@Vornicus> | And since you know how far the radical line is at its closest approach, you know how far along the radical line you have to go. |
| 06:07 | < himi-coffee> | But you should have a function describing the radical line in terms of the two center points, shouldn't you? |
| 06:07 | <@Vornicus> | Yes. |
| 06:08 | <@Vornicus> | And that's easily done. |
| 06:08 | < himi-coffee> | It'd be some set of simultaneous equations to describe the two tangent intersections |
| 06:08 | <@Vornicus> | I'll be posting the whole thing to my LJ when I'm done, you can see how it's done. |
| 06:08 | | * himi-coffee nods |
| 06:09 | < himi-coffee> | It just seems like it should pretty much fall out, unless the equations don't work out |
| 06:09 | | * himi-coffee ponders |
| 06:09 | < himi-coffee> | Though, since we're talking circles, they won't be linear |
| 06:10 | <@Vornicus> | No, the equations aren't linear. But they're astonishingly graceful. |
| 06:10 | < himi-coffee> | That makes them a lot nastier |
| 06:10 | < himi-coffee> | heh |
| 06:11 | <@Vornicus> | here's the distance from a to the radical line (d is the distance between a and b): (d^2 - a.r^2 + b.r^2) / 2d |
| 06:11 | < himi-coffee> | x.r being x's radius? |
| 06:11 | <@Vornicus> | yes. |
| 06:13 | <@Vornicus> | I saw that result quoted somewhere, and I didn't believe it, so I derived it myself. |
| 06:13 | <@Vornicus> | And if you take the right step in one place, it just kinda falls out. |
| 06:29 | < himi-coffee> | ugh |
| 06:29 | <@Vornicus> | ? |
| 06:30 | | * himi-coffee is going to get antihistamines, regardless of whether they make him sleep all day |
| 06:30 | <@Vornicus> | ah. |
| 06:30 | <@Vornicus> | suck. |
| 06:31 | < himi-coffee> | I don't /know/ they will, but anything that'll make me drowsy on top of the meds I'm already on might knock me out completely |
| 06:31 | | himi-coffee is now known as himi-drug-shopping |
| 06:36 | | You're now known as TW[flying] |
| 06:52 | | ReivClass is now known as Reiver |
| 06:56 | <@Reiver> | I must wonder if one /can/ refactor perl? |
| 06:56 | <@Reiver> | >.> |
| 07:03 | <@Vornicus> | One must, if one intends on ever reading it again. |
| 07:12 | <@Vornicus> | mrh. You know, I think that guy in #ruby-lang was right. This thing makes more sense if you have all the operations work in the context of a metric space. |
| 07:13 | | himi-drug-shopping is now known as himi |
| 07:14 | < himi> | . . . . everything makes more sense in metric . . . |
| 07:14 | | * himi ducks |
| 07:14 | <@Vornicus> | That's not what I meant. |
| 07:14 | < himi> | (yes, I know that's not what you meant) |
| 07:14 | | * Vornicus drops a half-ton stoatburger on himi. |
| 07:15 | | * himi eats his way out |
| 07:33 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 07:33 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 07:34 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:02 | <@Vornicus> | I do believe that it is time for slep. |
| 08:02 | <@Vornicus> | therefore. |
| 08:02 | <@Vornicus> | SLEP |
| 08:02 | | * Vornicus slep |
| 08:03 | <@Reiver> | Ni Vorn! |
| 08:06 | < himi> | Slep wel |
| 08:06 | < Serah> | Night night Vorn. |
| 08:10 | | Vornicus is now known as Vornicus-Latens |
| 08:12 | | ASCIISkull [~none@Nightstar-17767.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 08:33 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5049.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 08:33 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 08:36 | | ASCIISkull [~none@Nightstar-18623.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #Code |
| 08:41 | | AFKSkull [~none@Nightstar-18623.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #Code |
| 08:42 | | ASCIISkull [~none@Nightstar-18623.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 10:53 | | AFKSkull [~none@Nightstar-18623.ny325.east.verizon.net] has left #Code [] |
| 11:30 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5049.worldnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: This computer just fell asleep.] |
| 11:59 | | Chalc [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 12:00 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 12:00 | | Chalc is now known as Chalcedon |
| 12:12 | | * EvilDarkLord hooray! Windows is finally workink. |
| 12:16 | <@Reiver> | Yay! |
| 13:28 | <@ToxicFrog> | That's a first. |
| 13:30 | < EvilDarkLord> | Well, it did disable sleep mode for some reason but I'm guessing it's just some silly default option I need to change. |
| 14:02 | | Reiver is now known as ReivZzz |
| 14:48 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 14:48 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 14:49 | | ToxicFrog|AFK is now known as ToxicFrog|W`rkn |
| 14:50 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:41 | | EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-17046.a80-186-184-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 15:43 | | himi is now known as himi-sleeping |
| 15:43 | | himi-sleeping is now known as gnipeels-imih |
| 15:43 | | gnipeels-imih is now known as himi-sleeping |
| 15:53 | | EvilDarkLord [althalas@Nightstar-17046.a80-186-184-83.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #code |
| 17:05 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #code |
| 17:05 | | mode/#code [+o Vornicus] by ChanServ |
| 17:18 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping Timeout] |
| 18:44 | | Syloq [Syloq@NetAdmin.Nightstar.Net] has joined #code |
| 19:29 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 19:29 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcedon] by ChanServ |
| 19:38 | <@Vornicus> | bah. I put stuff on my USB stick to bring home and work on, and then I forget to bring it back. |
| 19:38 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Oopsies. |
| 19:38 | | * ToxicFrog|W`rkn keeps work and home in sync with rsync. |
| 19:40 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, both of mine are behind routers. |
| 19:40 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Portfwd 4tw. |
| 19:40 | <@Vornicus> | both of mine are behind routers I can't do that to. |
| 19:41 | <@Vornicus> | Well, technically I /could/ do it to the router here, but that would be Bad Form. |
| 19:41 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Keh. |
| 20:29 | <@Vornicus> | Beware of computational algebra. It will eat your mind. |
| 20:29 | <@Vornicus> | And /then/ it will borrow your car. |
| 20:30 | <@Vornicus> | And /then/ it will raid your fridge. |
| 20:50 | | EvilDarkLord is now known as Thokk |
| 20:54 | | Mahal [~Mahal@Nightstar-5049.worldnet.co.nz] has joined #code |
| 20:54 | | mode/#code [+o Mahal] by ChanServ |
| 20:59 | | Thokk is now known as EvilZZZLord |
| 21:37 | | * ToxicFrog|W`rkn eyes this comment. |
| 21:37 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | "There are 6 keys used for input: UP DOWN LEFT RIGHT ENTER ESC |
| 21:38 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | "There are also 4 timers pretending to be keystrokes: STATS INPUT INSERT FLASH HELP" |
| 21:38 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | 5 == 4? |
| 22:07 | | Chalcy [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #code |
| 22:07 | | mode/#code [+o Chalcy] by ChanServ |
| 22:07 | | Chalcedon [~Chalceon@Nightstar-869.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Chalcy))] |
| 22:08 | | Chalcy is now known as Chalcedon |
| 22:13 | | * ToxicFrog|W`rkn fiddles with SciTE. |
| 22:13 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I think NEdit just got supplanted. |
| 22:38 | <@Vornicus> | Scite is pretty awesome. |
| 22:44 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I'm finding this out, yes. |
| 22:45 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Hopefully performance will be acceptable on Orias. |
| 22:46 | <@Vornicus> | Okay. Geometric numbers. |
| 22:47 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I'd rather not, thanks~ |
| 22:48 | <@Vornicus> | The core of the problem, really, is defining addition in such a way that I can add two disparate things and have them appear as two disparate things - 1 + sqrt(2) should remain as 1 + sqrt(2) - but two things that can add without going wiggy should actually add - 3/5 + 2/7 = 31/35. |
| 22:49 | <@Vornicus> | ...the funny thing about that is that from there it's just a short hop to actual computational algebra. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Umm. |
| 23:01 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | I recall burblings about doing this in Ruby, but in Lua... |
| 23:02 | <@Vornicus> | Yeah, I am doing it in Ruby. |
| 23:05 | <@ToxicFrog|W`rkn> | Aah. |
| 23:07 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] |
| 23:07 | | Vornicus [~vorn@Nightstar-18307.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #code |
| 23:08 | < Vornicus> | Last I got was "aah" |
| 23:09 | | Vornicus is now known as NSGuest-718 |
| 23:09 | | NSGuest-718 is now known as Vornicus |
| 23:10 | <@Chalcedon> | thats all there was |
| 23:10 | < Vornicus> | ok |
| 23:35 | | * Vornicus floons |
| 23:45 | | ToxicFrog|W`rkn is now known as ToxicFrog|AFK |
| --- Log closed Wed Aug 16 00:00:02 2006 |